giantsfan Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Okay Vick ONLY throws to Crumpler. Think you may want to double him all over the field. Brees pretty much only throws to Gates in the RZ. Think you may want to double him especially in the RZ. These are just 2 examples. I'm sure there are many others, but I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Physically gifted tight ends create matchup problems no matter what a defense does. If you put a linebakcer on them, they out run them. If you put a safety on them, they out muscle them. If you commit a double team to them and they stay in to block, you are screwed on the outside. There is a reason for the uptick in TE production this year. Coverage schemes are set up to stop WRs. Defensive coordinators will adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Physically gifted tight ends create matchup problems no matter what a defense does. If you put a linebakcer on them, they out run them. If you put a safety on them, they out muscle them. If you commit a double team to them and they stay in to block, you are screwed on the outside. There is a reason for the uptick in TE production this year. Coverage schemes are set up to stop WRs. Defensive coordinators will adjust. 580269[/snapback] I'm sure that's it, but if you are playing SD, and especially Atl how can you not make it your # 1 goal to shut down the TE. That's what I don't get. You can stop any receiver if you choose to. Double Gates help a bit on Keenan, and leave Parker 1 on 1, but how can these teams continually let Gates get TD's. Atl is even worse because Vick really throws to no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 I'm sure that's it, but if you are playing SD, and especially Atl how can you not make it your # 1 goal to shut down the TE. That's what I don't get. You can stop any receiver if you choose to. Double Gates help a bit on Keenan, and leave Parker 1 on 1, but how can these teams continually let Gates get TD's. Atl is even worse because Vick really throws to no one else. 580286[/snapback] I've wondered this myself. I have Gates, and every week I expect a down week because I figure the other team will just double team him every play, especially in the RZ. I saw a "coaches' tape" breakdown on Gates where he was double teamed but he is just that good he finds ways to get open. He did a sweet move that resembled a post move down in the blocks and then he just kept running toward the sidelines and he was wide open. This guy has some major talent, he has quick moves, soft hands and great body control. I see this guy being the greatest TE ever when it's all said and done. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 I'm sure that's it, but if you are playing SD, and especially Atl how can you not make it your # 1 goal to shut down the TE. That's what I don't get. You can stop any receiver if you choose to. Double Gates help a bit on Keenan, and leave Parker 1 on 1, but how can these teams continually let Gates get TD's. Atl is even worse because Vick really throws to no one else. 580286[/snapback] Actually you have just hit on how important balance on offense is. And how the run can set up the pass and vice-versa. In both instances you are talking about teams that have oustanding run games. If your opponent can run the ball well you simply can not ignore the that in the Red Zone. In SD they have the best RB in football right now in LT. So when they are in the redzone you have to play the run. Which means no more than 4 DB's which means Gates will be one-on-one, probably against a LB. If you put a DB on him then McCardell or Parker will get open. In ATL you have a great RB tandem in Duckett & Dunn, they don't get the press they deserve, and inside the redzone they can run up the gut with Duckett, wide with Dunn or if they drop back to pass then Vick might run it in. So again you have to play run which means no more than 4 DB's and Crumpler is one-on-one, probably against a LB. And as ineffective as the WR's are in ATL, if you ignore them they will burn you. If you are lucky enough to have a good running game and a great TE then your redzone options are abundant and the defense is in big trouble. That's why Manning has been so great in the red Zone this year. They have so many options that you simply can not ignore anyone. That spreads a defense to thin. Then it is up to your QB to be able to find the open guy and more often than not the TE is the one that ends up with the mis-match. It's a hard thing to defend against because frankly until this year there were only 2-3 TE's that were good enough to create these mis-matches. Now there are 6-7. Gates Gonzo Heap (when healthy) Witten Crumpler Pollard/Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 If your goal is to shut down Gates, the only way to do that is to double up on him. If you do that, McCardell, Parker, or Osgood will have great one-on-one matchups. You also take away another player from stopping LT. Pick your poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 don't forget Wilslow Jr. next year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop express Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Now there are 6-7. Gates Gonzo Heap (when healthy) Witten Crumpler Pollard/Clark 580333[/snapback] You forgot McMichael. He has been great considering the stiffs throwing him the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 And Shockey, and to a lesser extent E. Johnson who's top 5 or so in catches I believe. Bottom line is there are MANY good TE's now when in the past there were 3 or 4 tops. Which in a weird way lowers the value of a Gonzo or Heap. When they were the only show in town they had to be drafted high. Now with so many TE options you can get a good 1 later. I mean Gates, Witten, and EJ either went very late or didn't get drafted in EJ's case in my 12 team TE required league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 You forgot McMichael. He has been great considering the stiffs throwing him the ball. 580349[/snapback] I agree on McMichaels. To the guy who mentioned Winslow Jr., I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just withholding judgement until he plays more. There's also Shockey who may yet develop into this type of TE. So I would say that Defensive Coordinators all over the country are staying up late looking for the schemes to shut these guys down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbucklers Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 GatesGonzo Heap (when healthy) Witten Crumpler Pollard/Clark 580333[/snapback] What about Wiggins and his sweet tackle avoiding leap!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 While we're adding to the list, consider Wiggins & E Johnson. It truly is a banner year for the TE position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 What about Wiggins and his sweet tackle avoiding leap!!! 580366[/snapback] You mean Denny Green disguised as a TE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 You can't forget Wiggins... ...you can only hope to forget his breakdance moves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) I think the emphasis on defensive pass interference has been a major reason for the increased production in TEs. Also, being a copy-cat league, I think coaches have seen how to better utilize the position and it's showing. Edited November 29, 2004 by Brentastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbucklers Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 You can't forget Wiggins... ...you can only hope to forget his breakdance moves! 580372[/snapback] Anything that has to do with Jermaine cracks me up completely. You cannot dog on his breakdancing moves, they are better than Turbo, Ozone, and Special-K put together. I hope to be seeing him "popping it out" in my league's playoffs!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Ok so the TE list is up to Gates Gonzo Heap (when healthy) Witten Crumpler Pollard/Clark Johnson Wiggins McMichaels Shockey And maybe Winslow Jr. That's 11-12 Top Flight TE's. a little better than 1 team out of every 3 has a TE that makes the defense scheme for them. I don't necessarily think that findind and utilizing a Top Flight TE is a new idea, I think it's just been a while since there were this many good ones. Coaches have used this position in this way in the past. Let's take the list old school. There used to be Bavarro Novacek Christianson Coates Winslow Sr Who else am I leaving out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsnottatooma Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Ok so the TE list is up to Gates Gonzo Heap (when healthy) Witten Crumpler Pollard/Clark Johnson Wiggins McMichaels Shockey And maybe Winslow Jr. That's 11-12 Top Flight TE's. a little better than 1 team out of every 3 has a TE that makes the defense scheme for them. I don't necessarily think that findind and utilizing a Top Flight TE is a new idea, I think it's just been a while since there were this many good ones. Coaches have used this position in this way in the past. Let's take the list old school. There used to be Bavarro Novacek Christianson Coates Winslow Sr Who else am I leaving out? 580583[/snapback] Ditka Jackie Smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Dawgs Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Mark Chumura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) Have you seen Gates catches? Its not simply on putting people on him. This guys is truley amazing he uses his big body to get position and then not only does he get position but he can jump, turn, tangle, use his hands to catch the ball. It is simply amazing. He makes catches alot of WRs cant. I am not saying he has better hands than them but he certainly knows how to use his body. The defender will be guarding him and then he will leap turn around and make the catch. There really is no guarading that. Brees knows where to throw it. Also to add...that team has so many different formations you rarely see Gates in the same formation twice. Add this on top of his ability and is almost impossible to guard. Edited November 29, 2004 by MrTed46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Coaches have used this position in this way in the past. Let's take the list old school. There used to be Bavarro Novacek Christianson Coates Winslow Sr Who else am I leaving out? 580583[/snapback] Ozzie Newsome - 662 catches for 7980 yards, 47 TD, 89 catches each in '83 & '84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bolts Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) Ozzie Newsome - 662 catches for 7980 yards, 47 TD, 89 catches each in '83 & '84. 580935[/snapback] ........................and the big mouth Shannon Sharpe! Edited November 29, 2004 by The Bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Old School TE List: Bavarro Novacek Christianson Coates Winslow Sr Chumura Ditka J. Smith Newsome (How'd I forget OZZIE) Sharpe Who else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) Old School TE List: Bavarro Novacek Christianson Coates Winslow Sr Chumura Ditka J. Smith Newsome (How'd I forget OZZIE) Sharpe Who else? 581172[/snapback] HUGE difference is those guys played all different times for the most part. Maybe 3 or 4 around the same time at most. We now have today 10, 11, 12, whatever # of very good receiving TE's. No comparison IMO. And you forgot B. Jones from the Niners. Edited November 29, 2004 by giantsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 HUGE difference is those guys played all different times for the most part. Maybe 3 or 4 around the same time at most. We now have today 10, 11, 12, whatever # of very good receiving TE's. No comparison IMO. And you forgot B. Jones from the Niners. 581182[/snapback] We aren't comparing. We actually already agreed that there is an abundance of excellent TE's right now. This list is just a look back at some of the great TE's of the past. A list to which B. Jones has just been added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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