The class of the NFL: one fan's opinion

[Chief Dick]

I wouldn't of supported the Cardinals either.  Of all the teams that have moved, I think St. Louis deserves the least amount of blame, considering how the franchise treated them.

 

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Good point. That's why the Arizona Cardinals are at the top of the list. But seeing how the LA Rams packed up and left LA, I'm just curious to see how it plays out long term in St. Louis.

 

This analysis has as much to do with them leaving LA as how I see them in St. Louis. I've always perceived St. Louis as a great baseball town, and I just see dark days ahead for the Rams.

[Puddy]

Wow...Second page of the post and no mention of my Lions in the bottom five - even without a championship since the 50's or a playoff victory since '91. I guess what probably keeps us out is the support the team receives from the fans even without the success. The stadium sells out every week and did most of the time back at the Silverdome (which housed 80,000). I thought for sure Spain would have mentioned us.

 

Interesting post CD.

[Chief Dick]

Don't worry, they were seriously considered. But they haven't really done anything good or bad that would set them apart either way. To me, they fall in the middle.

[Grid Scrote]

I hate the fact that we got a team from someplace else, so I understand the criticism of the Rams, Chief. Blatant homerism here, but we thought we should have gotten the expansion team that went to Jacksonville, nothing against the fine folks in North Florida.

 

My point was that the criticism of St. Louis as a football town was misinformed. The attendance figures you posted prove that.

 

If you're going to slam the St. Louis fans just because the Grid Birds left, you need to hand some of that to Chicago, too, since the Cardinals also left there. It's just kinda silly.

 

We will, as I said, continue to support the Rams even with what I agree could be some dark times looming on the horizon.

 

Thanks to those who supported my post, and from a STL homer point of view I'll do what I can. Here's a nugget for you- I'm a Season Ticket Holder and was at the game last week and have followed the story here closely. Bulger looks to be a lot more hurt than Martz is letting on. Martz is among the NFL coaches (Shanahan, Belichick) that you absolutely cannot believe when they talk about injuries.

 

No links or official sources, just my opinion, but if your league has a transaction deadline, I'd sure back up Bulger for the playoffs with someone other than Crystal Chandelier. Take the Panthers and give the points.

[Grid Scrote]

By the way Chief, I think you're being too modest. I'd put the Chiefs and that organization and those fans in that stadium in the top 5 easy. NO ONE wants to have to go there to win an important game.

[Big John]

GS: As you are putting up quality posts, most of will not chastise you as being a newbie. We like more quality posters. It is the newbies who post "garbage" who get the deserved razzing.

[Chief Dick]

I hate the fact that we got a team from someplace else, so I understand the criticism of the Rams, Chief. Blatant homerism here, but we thought we should have gotten the expansion team that went to Jacksonville, nothing against the fine folks in North Florida.

 

My point was that the criticism of St. Louis as a football town was misinformed. The attendance figures you posted prove that.

 

If you're going to slam the St. Louis fans just because the Grid Birds left, you need to hand some of that to Chicago, too, since the Cardinals also left there. It's just kinda silly.

 

We will, as I said, continue to support the Rams even with what I agree could be some dark times looming on the horizon.

 

Thanks to those who supported my post, and from a STL homer point of view I'll do what I can. Here's a nugget for you- I'm a Season Ticket Holder and was at the game last week and have followed the story here closely. Bulger looks to be a lot more hurt than Martz is letting on. Martz is among the NFL coaches (Shanahan, Belichick) that you absolutely cannot believe when they talk about injuries.

 

No links or official sources, just my opinion, but if your league has a transaction deadline, I'd sure back up Bulger for the playoffs with someone other than Crystal Chandelier. Take the Panthers and give the points. 

 

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Honestly, GS, my beef is more with the ownership than anything. I do hope the fans continue to support that team: it's always good to have another team in Missouri. And St. Louis was a tough team to put on the list. My perception has more to do with the owner/Martz factor, because my fear is that they hang on to Martz too long, which seemingly would create frustration with that fan base. Maybe you can give us some perspective of how the season ticket holders feel about Martz and the direction of the team.

 

And thanks for the debate. One of the reasons I made this list was to spark some discussion with the various homers around the country. I was getting a little tired of the Manning posts and all the bad vibe newbie bashing around here lately.

[Vet]

I agree with Rovers that Buffalo deserves at least an honorable mention.

 

And, I disagree with Miami being in the bottom five. This is still a proud franchise with an enviable track record that deserves respect. Yeah, they're in a down cycle right now, but I believe the Dolphins own the record for most seasons over .500 and I think most playoff appearances..though I could be wron on that last point. In any case, they deserve a great deal of respect...and this is coming from a life long Jets fan and Dolphin hater.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dolphins sold this offseason. Rumor has it Dan Marino has a pretty formidable group of businessmen backing him and he may be the lead-guy in buying the Dolphins from Huizenga this summer.

[Grid Scrote]

I like the debate too, obviously, since it drew me from lurker to poster.

 

Let's see, how do we feel about Martz? First understand, that St. Louis is a media-friendly kinda town where we latch on to players and coaches we like and they seemingly can do no wrong. Whitey Herzog is still a freakin' GOD here.

 

So you would think that since he won us a Super Bowl as a coordinator and took us there again as a head coach that STL would be Martzville.

 

And you'd be wrong.

 

The public opinion has overwhelmingly turned against the smug, arrogant Martz and some people are secretly hoping the Rams melt down completely so we can get rid of him and get a better draft pick for someone who knows what the hell to do with it.

 

As for the organization, it's really John Shaw who pushes the buttons. The problem is that we have a good football man as GM (Charlie Army) but Martz has final say on personnel matters rendering Army virtually powerless. Martz's drafts have been terrible - read this in today's STL Post-Dispatch:

 

Bernie Miklaz

 

It's the same thing that's happening in Seattle and other places. How many coaches can really be an effective GM?

 

The national media isn't listing Martz as being on the proverbial "hotseat", but here it sure appears that is the case. Anyone in the market for a nice, big house in the St. Louis suburbs?

[Chief Dick]

I like the debate too, obviously, since it drew me from lurker to poster.

 

Let's see, how do we feel about Martz? First understand, that St. Louis is a media-friendly kinda town where we latch on to players and coaches we like and they seemingly can do no wrong. Whitey Herzog is still a freakin' GOD here.

 

So you would think that since he won us a Super Bowl as a coordinator and took us there again as a head coach that STL would be Martzville.

 

And you'd be wrong.

 

The public opinion has overwhelmingly turned against the smug, arrogant Martz and some people are secretly hoping the Rams melt down completely so we can get rid of him and get a better draft pick for someone who knows what the hell to do with it.

 

As for the organization, it's really John Shaw who pushes the buttons. The problem is that we have a good football man as GM (Charlie Army) but Martz has final say on personnel matters rendering Army virtually powerless. Martz's drafts have been terrible - read this in today's STL Post-Dispatch:

 

Bernie Miklaz

 

It's the same thing that's happening in Seattle and other places. How many coaches can really be an effective GM?

 

The national media isn't listing Martz as being on the proverbial "hotseat", but here it sure appears that is the case. Anyone in the market for a nice, big house in the St. Louis suburbs?

 

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Interesting. I didn't know Martz had final say. On the same topic, Carl Peterson's draft record has not been good either. Kansas City has not really developed any talent, save Gonzalez, on either side of the ball for a long time. Will probably come back top haunt them as well.

[gimpster]

Gotta have the Eagles in the worst 5..Played in a nightmare of a stadium for many many years..Classless fans at the stadium..No Knock on the eagles fans Ive seen on these boards who have a great passion for their team but the fans who cheer guys being carted off the field and actually heckled Jurevicious about his baby that passed away..Tradition of choking in the playoffs in recent years.Id say Reid is a good coach though although he has gotten his ass handed to him a few years in a row.

 

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Are you serious? When you talk about a first class organization Philly comes to my mind. Sure I am a homer but look at what this organization has done with it's personnel decisions and cap mangement. Lurie, Banner and Reid have kept this team competitive for some time now. They are the winningest team in the last 5 years and counting. They have been to the championship game the last 3 years and every indication says that they will be there again. Sure they didn't win, but last year they didn't even belong there with the injuries they suffered. That is a tribute to their coaching staff. Reid is the winniest coach in team history, Childress will most likely be a head coach somewhere next year, Jim Johnson is a stud of a D coordinator and I believe Harbaugh will be an O coordinator and head coach someday as well. Sure there are some rowdy fans who get out of hand, but that also shows you the passion that this town has for football. This town lives and breathes football, unlike an Arizona or LA when they had a team. And the Vet was a dump, it's been gone for two years now. You would seriously put them in the bottom 5 of the league because of those two things? So by your logic, the Detroit Pistons are a terrible franchise because one of their fans threw a beer at Ron Artest and all of the teams that had dilipated stadiums in the past like NE, CHI, PIT to name a few are managed poorly. The Bills must be terrible too because they lost 4 straight SB's. Surely they must be the worst team in the NFL. My guess is you are a Dallas fan and just don't like the Eagles.

[Chief Dick]

Are you serious?  When you talk about a first class organization Philly comes to my mind.  Sure I am a homer but look at what this organization has done with it's personnel decisions and cap mangement.  Lurie, Banner and Reid have kept this team competitive for some time now.  They are the winningest team in the last 5 years and counting.  They have been to the championship game the last 3 years and every indication says that they will be there again.  Sure they didn't win, but last year they didn't even belong there with the injuries they suffered.  That is a tribute to their coaching staff.  Reid is the winniest coach in team history, Childress will most likely be a head coach somewhere next year, Jim Johnson is a stud of a D coordinator and I believe Harbaugh will be an O coordinator and head coach someday as well.  Sure there are some rowdy fans who get out of hand, but that also shows you the passion that this town has for football.  This town lives and breathes football, unlike an Arizona or LA when they had a team.  And the Vet was a dump, it's been gone for two years now.  You would seriously put them in the bottom 5 of the league because of those two things?  So by your logic, the Detroit Pistons are a terrible franchise because one of their fans threw a beer at Ron Artest and all of the teams that had dilipated stadiums in the past like NE, CHI, PIT to name a few are managed poorly.  The Bills must be terrible too because they lost 4 straight SB's.  Surely they must be the worst team in the NFL.  My guess is you are a Dallas fan and just don't like the Eagles.

 

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That's why I put them on the honorable mention list. The Eagles have really come a long way in the last 10 years. You can never argue the passion of the Eagles fan: they live and die with that team. Too bad a small few have to tarnish the overall perception of the fans.

[Pope Flick]

It was not lowered - the old skyboxes were torn down so more seats could be built on top (9 more rows) alons with a upper concourse and expanded the lower concorse, along with the year-round atrium. 

 

And there is no outward-facing jumbotron.

 

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Randall - you can't even get your facts straight for your favorite team!