Clubfoothead Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Can we not all understand the strategy at play here. 610041[/snapback] Apparently me you and nobody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Can we not all understand the strategy at play here. He's not trying to screw anybody, rather he's trying to improve his chances at advancing in the playoffs. Like club said ... his play to this point in the season has given him the luxury of taking a loss if he feels like it will improve his playoff position. If a few more of your league mates had defeated him then he wouldn't be in this position. Clearly he is not cheating. Having said that it is also clearly distasteful. In Hannibals recently (week 13) I was in position to tank my game to improve my draft position for 2005. The game was totally meaningless to me as I was already out of the playoffs ... so strategy would dictate that I tank the game. However, it's just not in me to tank a game for whatever reason. I want to win every single game that I can possibly win. While my game had no playoff implications for me, it certainly had playoff implications for my division rivals, spain and rhino. My victory over spain knocked him out of the playoffs and gave rhino the division win. 610041[/snapback] No, it isn't cheating, however, he did screw someone. He now plays an easier team and screwed the guy that has the far harder match-up. In fact, he screwed everyone going to the playoffs since the seeds have now completely changed due his tanking. Most leagues have rules that cover full lineups and tanking. It's a shame this one doesn't. No matter which way you cut it, people got screwed by this guy, and he has no leg to stand on when it comes to integrity, honor, or ethics. You play to win or don't play at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 No, it isn't cheating, however, he did screw someone. He now plays an easier team and screwed the guy that has the far harder match-up. In fact, he screwed everyone going to the playoffs since the seeds have now completely changed due his tanking. Most leagues have rules that cover full lineups and tanking. It's a shame this one doesn't. No matter which way you cut it, people got screwed by this guy, and he has no leg to stand on when it comes to integrity, honor, or ethics. You play to win or don't play at all. 610083[/snapback] Well here's the deal sky ... every week when a team wins another one gets "screwed". As a matter of fact every week most of are trying to screw somebody else by crushing them before us. The difference here is that it's an "indirect screw job". Had he lost the game straight up after playing his best line up the other team would still have gotten "screwed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambo72 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 If your rules allow such behavior, quit biitching about dude and fix your rules by say maybe giving the top two teams that make the playoffs a first round bye. While I'm too competitive do do such a thing and agree with Skippy and LegFu that it's bad karma, I can see where it makes sense. He's not doing anything but seeking a competitive advantage in the playoffs. He's earned this right because he played so well all season he could afford to lose this game. He's not tanking he's taking a major strategic risk to technically play a better team just to avoid the hot team. Babies. 610007[/snapback] Clubfoot is exactly right! This guy did a smart thing to try and position himself better in the playoffs. There is nothing that can be done now but maybe you should implement a rule for next year that will help guard against this type of thing. For this year, just deal with it. Who knows, it may backfire on him anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I agree with Club and Blitz. It is a stratagey move, and unless specifically addressed by ther rules, it is not only fair, but the right thing for him to do. The guy is obviously trying to be as competitive as he can. If by looosing a game, he can better his chance to win the league, fair to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 You play to win or don't play at all. 610083[/snapback] To win what? The last regular season game or the league championship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 To win what? The last regular season game or the league championship? 610107[/snapback] That's the cruxt of it .. isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 To win what? The last regular season game or the league championship? 610107[/snapback] Exactly. Is it considered "tanking" when NFL teams which are out of the playoffs decide to play rookies to evaluate them or give them experience for the next year? It could be argued that if the owner did not do what he thought was best to win the fantasy championship that he was tanking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 To win what? The last regular season game or the league championship? 610107[/snapback] I know darn well that you are not that dense. You talk a good game, but I would be willing to bet the farm that ........ You play to win.... period. Doesn't matter what is on the line, you play to win. Can rationalize it all you want.... the guy tanked the game and his status as a person has dropped. Guess I am just different than the majority here. When I join a league it is as if I have given my word that I will do the best I can to win each and every time. Guess most here don't look at it that way. And that is okay.... it helps to know your opponent's outlook on things and how they will rationalize manipulation of situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I know darn well that you are not that dense. You talk a good game, but I would be willing to bet the farm that ........ You play to win.... period. Doesn't matter what is on the line, you play to win. Can rationalize it all you want.... the guy tanked the game and his status as a person has dropped. Guess I am just different than the majority here. When I join a league it is as if I have given my word that I will do the best I can to win each and every time. Guess most here don't look at it that way. And that is okay.... it helps to know your opponent's outlook on things and how they will rationalize manipulation of situations. 610178[/snapback] I have already sais that I play to win every week and find the strategy we are discussing dis-tasteful. However, unless addressed in the rules it IS NOT cheating and the commissioner CAN NOT make adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I know darn well that you are not that dense. You talk a good game, but I would be willing to bet the farm that ........ You play to win.... period. Doesn't matter what is on the line, you play to win. Can rationalize it all you want.... the guy tanked the game and his status as a person has dropped. Guess I am just different than the majority here. When I join a league it is as if I have given my word that I will do the best I can to win each and every time. Guess most here don't look at it that way. And that is okay.... it helps to know your opponent's outlook on things and how they will rationalize manipulation of situations. 610178[/snapback] How do you feel about NFL teams pulling their starters in the 4th quarter during a blowout or about teams resting their starters late in the season so that they are healthy for the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 However, unless addressed in the rules it IS NOT cheating and the commissioner CAN NOT make adjustments. 610184[/snapback] I agreed with you that it is not cheating and the Commish has no right to make any adjustments at all. What I don't agree with is all the patting on the back of this guy for what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I gotta say, I agree with Blitz. As long as nobody is effecting who makes the play-offs, and you don't have any rules about incomplete line-ups, he made a valid move. I wouldn't do it, but it's not causing anyone to miss the play-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I agreed with you that it is not cheating and the Commish has no right to make any adjustments at all. What I don't agree with is all the patting on the back of this guy for what he did. 610202[/snapback] I'm not patting him on the back ... I understand his strategy but I would never employ that strategy myself. As I said in an earlier post it was to my every advantage to attempt to lose my game week 13 in Hannibals, which I could easily have done by starting scrubs from my bench I did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I gotta say, I agree with Blitz. As long as nobody is effecting who makes the play-offs, and you don't have any rules about incomplete line-ups, he made a valid move. I wouldn't do it, but it's not causing anyone to miss the play-offs. 610209[/snapback] It is irrelevant if it impacted somebody's spot in the playoffs. If the rules don't prohibit him from submitting a partial lineup then he hasn't done anything against the rules and the commissioner has no grounds to change his lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Now how do you prevent him from benching Peyton Manning to start Vinny Testaverde because he wants to tank the game? 610041[/snapback] How do you address that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 sky, my friend: 1. I am dense. 2. You are in the majority. What bothers me the most is this league's rules. The #1 and #2 seed fear the #6 seed in the first round of theplay offs? That tells me that there is an inherent flaw in the league rules. If the top two teams had a bye in the first round of these playoffs, I doubt dude would have "tanked" because he'd have no idea who his opponent would be in the second round therefore he might as well take the win. Like I said, I think it'll certainly rile up the fantasy gods, kind of like passing on a full house in yhatzee, but given the circumstances and league rules it strikes me as more of a case of strategy than anything else. Could I do it, no but then in my leagues the top two teams have 1st round byes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 How do you address that one? 610215[/snapback] I don't believe you can. You can't manage everybody's lineup every week making sure they have what you think is the best lineup in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 How do you feel about NFL teams pulling their starters in the 4th quarter during a blowout or about teams resting their starters late in the season so that they are healthy for the playoffs? 610192[/snapback] We are not talking about the NFL. We are talking about FF and a guy that tanked a game. Coaches in the NFL lie, cheat, and steal. Owners in the NFL lie, cheat, and steal. Both will circumvent and/or manipulate rules to their advantage with no regard to honor or fair play. Players .... well, all you have to do is watch the cheap shots, biting in the pile ups, kicking people in the head, and picking up QB's and throwing them to the ground, to get the picture there. One does not expect FF owners to lie, cheat, and steal. One expects a code of conduct to be followed that is based on honor and integrity. Well, at least I do, but I can see that I am probably the only one that does and am probably considered some kind of idiot for my POV. The bottom line is that the guy tanked and has broken his implied word that he would do his best each and every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I don't believe you can. You can't manage everybody's lineup every week making sure they have what you think is the best lineup in. 610234[/snapback] What if it contains multiple "tanking" decisions that were made....not just the QB example you posed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 What if it contains multiple "tanking" decisions that were made....not just the QB example you posed. 610255[/snapback] ... what can you do ... unless an owner is starting a player that is listed as OUT, on IR or off in that particular week you can't assume that your prediction of who will do better is any better than his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 (edited) ... what can you do ... unless an owner is starting a player that is listed as OUT, on IR or off in that particular week you can't assume that your prediction of who will do better is any better than his. 610279[/snapback] One of the guys was Curry, who hurt himself last week. Wasn't in the lineup last week, but got played this week for DJAX. We have no rules about not fielding an incomplete lineup. Teams very often play their kicker when they are on a bye. The only thing I did do was sent the owner a What The F email. He was playing his boss who got the $ for the weekly win, but did not effect the seedings. Still, it rubs me the wrong way, and I like the guy who is in question. Edited December 14, 2004 by gilthorp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 One of the guys was Curry, who hurt himself last week. Wasn't in the lineup last week, but got played this week for DJAX. We have no rules about not fielding an incomplete lineup. Teams very often play their kicker when they are on a bye. The only thing I did do was sent the owner a *** email. He was playing his boss who got the $ for the weekly win, but did not effect the seedings. Still, it rubs me the wrong way, and I like the guy who is in question. 610291[/snapback] Curry is out for the year so that is an obvious one. Often times owners in my league will play a kicker on a bye week because they don't want to pay the prevailing transaction fee to pick up another kicker. We have always allowed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I understood that the guy was employing a strategy to help his playoff run. But I still think he needs to be taken to the shed. Maybe he will anger the FF gods enough and the team he would have faced will have a horrible week which he could have won against and he ends up losing his matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Is it a coincidence that the primary supporters of this tactic are Cowboys fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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