Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Our league rules state you can set your line up on the web, email it to your opponent and the commish or both. We have never had this specific problem arise but in the past owners have emailed changes to the commish/opponent and the commish makes the changes. This makes the lineup he emailed to the commish on Thursday valid. IMHO, he gets to start Evans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphtrilogy Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Commish should rule on this. It seems like since he e-mailed the whole league, he should get the roster move due to his internet issues. Next year, demand that all onwers have internet access full time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I don't understand the problem then. 1) He has made lineup changes in the past via this method; ie setting one line up on the website and changing said line up with a later email to the entire league. 2) The rules specifically allow for lineups to be set or altered via an email. So by definition the league is required to insert Evans into his lineup. And I DO blame your commissioner. Rules allow for line ups and line up changes to be submitted via email. This means that it is the commissioner's job to ensure that lineups received via email are correctly entered. This is especially important to do BEFORE games are played AND most especially near playoff time. Like has been said before it seems pointless to have a web based league management process and yet still take lineups via email ... but this is probably to address the needs of this owner without web access at home. Should the owner have confirmed his lineup change, yes ...but the bottom line is that he MADE the lineup change. BTW ... I really HATE this approach because I guarantee you that had Hines Ward done better than Evans the owner in question would not be complaining ... in that case it would be up to some other owner or commissioner to catch the mix up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I'm guessing the main problem is that the commissioner didn't catch the lineup change on the email and announced the playoff teams/seeding. Then the owner in question called him to carpet on his line up and now the league is in a tizzy. 610785[/snapback] Looks like I nailed it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 BTW ... I really HATE this approach because I guarantee you that had Hines Ward done better than Evans the owner in question would not be complaining ... in that case it would be up to some other owner or commissioner to catch the mix up. 611748[/snapback] Grits, I concur with you on this. I don't think the other owner would have caught this. The tough part is that two teams played 14 games (including two against each other, the owner in question swept the series) and they ended with identical records and were seperated by 1 point. Our first tie breaker is points scored and the second is head to head. The change from Ward to Evans doesn't change th outcome of the game but does schnge the outcome of the playoffs. The league tizzy is that if Ward had scored 4 points instead of 3 the owner would be in the playoffs and the lineup switch would probably not been caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Grits, I concur with you on this. I don't think the other owner would have caught this. The tough part is that two teams played 14 games (including two against each other, the owner in question swept the series) and they ended with identical records and were seperated by 1 point. Our first tie breaker is points scored and the second is head to head. The change from Ward to Evans doesn't change th outcome of the game but does schnge the outcome of the playoffs. The league tizzy is that if Ward had scored 4 points instead of 3 the owner would be in the playoffs and the lineup switch would probably not been caught. 611785[/snapback] But the simple fact of the matter is the change was legal by your league rules. This isn't really even an issue. Whoever is upset over this needs to get over it because nothing wrong has been done. The owner in question did what he was allowed to do. And since your league does allow lineup changes via email then it absolutely is your commissioners job to make those changes. I am the comissioner of 2 leagues and both are on the web at MFL. So lineups can be entered right through the site but I do allow lineup changes via email and/or answering machine right up until noon on Sundays (excluding non-sunday games, those are handled exclusively at their kickoffs). The reason I allow these types of changes is because, amazingly enough, people do have other things in their lives other than FF. For instance, I am a season ticket holder with the Colts. So there are several Sundays a year where I am not sitting right at my computer waiting to hear who has been made inactive or not. But I may hear something driving down the road on the way to the game about one of my players (thank god for satellite radio) so I simply pick up the cell phone and call my opponent and tell him of my change. Or sometimes if I know she's home I call my daughter and she will email the change for me. So long as these changes are made in time they count. Just like this guys email. It was legal and it was made in time so it counts. The biggest difference is we have a great group of owners and even though they might end up getting beat by the last minute change they would never argue it so long as it was a legit change. They might piss and moan about it all freaking year long until the next draft but they wouldn't argue the vailidity of the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Our league rules state you can set your line up on the web, email it to your opponent and the commish or both. 611733[/snapback] There is your problem right there. In my old local league we had a voice mail system and used rtsports because more than one dude in the league did not have internet access at work. The phone system was where any official business, adds/drops or line-ups would have to take place. My advice would be to change this rule before next season starts and make one or the other methods the only official one. Given what we now know I go with my second opinion that the change was legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Jrick, You hit the nail on the head as to why we allow changes via email or phoning the commish. This league has a great group of owners and the owner in question is a great owner. The tizzy the league is in is that the owners who know about it aren't sure what is really fair to all. While the rule is black and white one of the two owners is going to be disappointed and that is the tough thing. All the owners get along well and nobody wants hard feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 It sounds to me like you are worried about having a case of sour grapes. If the rules allow for lineup changes via e-mail, there is no issue. If the commish can provide the e-mail as proof, then the owner getting bumped is just SOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Jrick, You hit the nail on the head as to why we allow changes via email or phoning the commish. This league has a great group of owners and the owner in question is a great owner. The tizzy the league is in is that the owners who know about it aren't sure what is really fair to all. While the rule is black and white one of the two owners is going to be disappointed and that is the tough thing. All the owners get along well and nobody wants hard feelings. 611825[/snapback] They don't know what is fair to all? This owner submitted a legal lineup change and the commissioner messed up. The only fair thing to do is to follow the rules as they are written and grant the line up change. If the owner that misses the playoffs as a result of the change can't understand that a legal lineup change was made but not entered into the system (and he has an email in HIS box with the lineup change) and this change drops him out of the playoffs then he is NOT "a great owner" as you said. Will he be disappointed, sure ... but aren't we all when we don't make the playoffs? I can't imagine any set of circumstances that should prevent this lineup change from occurring. This commissioner screwed up and if there are hard feelings in your league they should be directed at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 All the owners get along well and nobody wants hard feelings. 611825[/snapback] Keep it that way. Make sure that next year there is only one official method for turning in line-ups. You can make that an email to accommodate dude without internet access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Keep it that way. Make sure that next year there is only one official method for turning in line-ups. You can make that an email to accommodate dude without internet access. 611850[/snapback] There's no reason they can't still allow both methods. The important point here is that regardless of the method of delivery, the only lineup that will be used is the last legal lineup received. As long as everyone understands that as being the rule then there can be several different methods of delivery. But if there is more than one accepted method of delivery then the Commish MUST be able to provide the source of the lineup change in the event of a discrepancy. Be it an email, voicemail or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 There's no reason they can't still allow both methods. The important point here is that regardless of the method of delivery, the only lineup that will be used is the last legal lineup received. 611897[/snapback] I would disagree, strictly because I think you're asking for confusion. Go to the website and be done with it. Give me one good reason or example for having multiple delivery possibilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I would disagree, strictly because I think you're asking for confusion. Go to the website and be done with it. Give me one good reason or example for having multiple delivery possibilities? 611905[/snapback] You are so smart. Jrick, the whole problem is created by the confusion of not having one official method for turning in the line-up. I believe T-Scorp when we are told this is a close knit league where everyone is friendly yet the two method system has at least strained that. Good leagues are hard to find and worth eeping around. Avoiding confusion, particularily when everything is on the line is the best way to keep a good league going. And of course, this on only MHO. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I would disagree, strictly because I think you're asking for confusion. Go to the website and be done with it. Give me one good reason or example for having multiple delivery possibilities? 611905[/snapback] The reason I allow these types of changes is because, amazingly enough, people do have other things in their lives other than FF. For instance, I am a season ticket holder with the Colts. So there are several Sundays a year where I am not sitting right at my computer waiting to hear who has been made inactive or not. But I may hear something driving down the road on the way to the game about one of my players (thank god for satellite radio) so I simply pick up the cell phone and call my opponent and tell him of my change. Or sometimes if I know she's home I call my daughter and she will email the change for me. So long as these changes are made in time they count. Just like this guys email. It was legal and it was made in time so it counts. I have been running a league for 5 years with multiple methods of delivery for lineups. The vast majority of the time everyone uses the website. But sometimes there are circumstances that do not allow them to get to the computer so a phone call solves the problem. We have never had a problem allowing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 You are so smart. Jrick, the whole problem is created by the confusion of not having one official method for turning in the line-up. I believe T-Scorp when we are told this is a close knit league where everyone is friendly yet the two method system has at least strained that. Good leagues are hard to find and worth eeping around. Avoiding confusion, particularily when everything is on the line is the best way to keep a good league going. And of course, this on only MHO. Good luck 611913[/snapback] I agree with you that good leagues are hard to find and worth keeping. I disagree that there was any real confusion. The commissioner dropped the ball. There are sour grapes, yes. But their rules allow this process and everyone was aware of it. And everyone in the league received the now infamous Thursday email. According to T-scorp it is even fairly common place among other owners within the league to do this. The only confusion stems from the fact that the commissioner missed the change. And now, because of that, it sounds as if someone must be trying to circumvent the Thursday email to avoid being knocked out of the playoffs. And apparently this has not been a problem much before now. The point I was trying to make is that it is possible to allow emailed and/or called in lineups and still not have problems. I know because my league does it and we have never had an issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I agree with you that good leagues are hard to find and worth keeping. I disagree that there was any real confusion. The commissioner dropped the ball. There are sour grapes, yes. But their rules allow this process and everyone was aware of it. And everyone in the league received the now infamous Thursday email. According to T-scorp it is even fairly common place among other owners within the league to do this. The only confusion stems from the fact that the commissioner missed the change. And now, because of that, it sounds as if someone must be trying to circumvent the Thursday email to avoid being knocked out of the playoffs. And apparently this has not been a problem much before now. The point I was trying to make is that it is possible to allow emailed and/or called in lineups and still not have problems. I know because my league does it and we have never had an issue with it. 611957[/snapback] Maybe the commish went to a Colts game. Hey if it works for your league, great. For the majority of us, keeping things simple is always easiest. One option verses two is simpler. That's all. In the end we are all just trying to help out a fellow huddler. Have a Merry Christmas and Jrick, a good sign for you is my picking the Colts to win the Super Bowl. I can't play fantasy football worht $hit but I'm pretty good at picking the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Bottom line ... if you are going to allow multiple methods for lineup entries and line changes then it is the commissioner's responsiblity to ensure that all the lineups are correct before moving to the next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Maybe the commish went to a Colts game. Hey if it works for your league, great. For the majority of us, keeping things simple is always easiest. One option verses two is simpler. That's all. In the end we are all just trying to help out a fellow huddler. Have a Merry Christmas and Jrick, a good sign for you is my picking the Colts to win the Super Bowl. I can't play fantasy football worht $hit but I'm pretty good at picking the Super Bowl. 611990[/snapback] Most Excellent of you Mr. Clubfoothead to help along the Colts. I do appreciate it. Merry Christmas to you to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) Just a FYI. The commish decided to change the score to reflect the email lineup that was submitted after the website lineup. The team is now the #4 seed in the playoffs. I bit more info...the team that has now missed the playoffs is owned by the commish's wife! (She completely agreed with the decision but I'll bet he has to at least do dishes for a couple of weeks!) Edited December 15, 2004 by T-Scorp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) It wouldn't matter what his "intentions" were ... what mattered was his last communication to the league ... and it is clear that in his last communication to the league he inserted Evans. The fact that he emailed the entire league and not just the commissioner is a plus for him too. It sounds to me like his lineup changes have been previously permitted via email so I am unclear as to why this week would be any different. 610093[/snapback] Because someone wants to back into the playoffs. oops, didn't see the previous post before this, guess I was right. Edited December 15, 2004 by jgcoach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Just a FYI. The commish decided to change the score to reflect the email lineup that was submitted after the website lineup. The team is now the #4 seed in the playoffs. I bit more info...the team that has now missed the playoffs is owned by the commish's wife! (She completely agreed with the decision but I'll bet he has to at least do dishes for a couple of weeks!) 612912[/snapback] Dishes and only GOD knows what else, because you know he's not getting off that easy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemoe Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Finally. A happy ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Finally. A happy ending. 613055[/snapback] I like happy endings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Finally. A happy ending. 613055[/snapback] Yeah...kind of makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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