KC Sports Radio

[muck]

So, this is the question on the way in...

 

"Is KC a better team w/ LJ running the ball and a "significant" improvement somewhere on defense, or with Priest running the ball and the current crop of defensive players?"

 

And, I think that if we could get "significant" defensive help, that'd be the way to go...which got me to thinking...who needs RB help currently and who may after FA's move around this offseason? And, which of those teams have defensive help they may be willing to trade?

 

Teams needing a RB now:

Oakland

San Francisco (? maybe ?)

Arizona

Cleveland

Miami

Carolina (...is Goings the answer?)

 

Teams needing a RB after free agency (maybe?):

Indy (if Edge leaves, Rhodes may not be up to the task)

Seattle (if Alexander leaves, Morris may not be up to the task)

 

Three of these teams are CLOSE to the SB and would maybe take a chance on an older veteran RB...and a team that Priest wouldn't be insulted by a trade to:

Carolina?

Indy?

Seattle?

 

...any of these teams have defensive help that could be traded for Holmes that would make it worth KC moving him...AND...would make it a good deal for the other team in their Super Bowl chase NEXT year?

[Roustabout]

are they campaigning for LJ to start the rest of the year on KC sports radio?

[Chief Dick]

It's an interesting question muck, and I'll be curious to see what happens this offseason.

 

Clearly something has to be done. I'm not sure they would deal Holmes, and maybe they will showcase Johnson to try and trade him in the offseason. Keeping Johnson would probably be smarter, because of the age issue and the quality of the offensive line. That line is getting older, however.

 

My thought is this offense basically has one more year where they can put up points like this. After that the window is CLOSED. That means Holmes stays. Blaylock goes to FA. Johnson is the heir apparent to Holmes.

 

They use every available cap dollar they have to upgrade that defense. Not sure how much they will have.

 

I could see them dealing Gonzalez, though.

[steeler]

I think the entire premise is flawed because I don't think any team would trade away "significant" defensive help for an aging, possibly injury prone RB.

[gspot]

So, this is the question on the way in...

 

"Is KC a better team w/ LJ running the ball and a "significant" improvement somewhere on defense, or with Priest running the ball and the current crop of defensive players?"

 

And, I think that if we could get "significant" defensive help, that'd be the way to go...which got me to thinking...who needs RB help currently and who may after FA's move around this offseason?  And, which of those teams have defensive help they may be willing to trade?

 

Teams needing a RB now:

Oakland

San Francisco (?  maybe ?)

Arizona

Cleveland

Miami

Carolina (...is Goings the answer?)

 

Teams needing a RB after free agency (maybe?):

Indy (if Edge leaves, Rhodes may not be up to the task)

Seattle (if Alexander leaves, Morris may not be up to the task)

 

Three of these teams are CLOSE to the SB and would maybe take a chance on an older veteran RB...and a team that Priest wouldn't be insulted by a trade to:

Carolina?

Indy?

Seattle?

 

...any of these teams have defensive help that could be traded for Holmes that would make it worth KC moving him...AND...would make it a good deal for the other team in their Super Bowl chase NEXT year?

 

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Well, as IMO, the only team which can afford to give any defensive help would be Miami and they have already dangled Surtain earlier this season.

 

With that offense, KC should look to this year's draft and FA to upgrade the D, as they only need to make it "respectible" middle of the pack ranked good.

 

With their high pick in this year's draft, they can pick a shut-down corner and some rookie LBs who can instantly start or produce. That along with signing one or two key defensive players in FA is the way to go.

 

They should start Johnson from here on out and see what he has.

 

Chief- What's their cap situation look like? Hell, who is taking up cap space? Kennison and Morton can't be eating up a big chunk and no one on that defense is worth half the veteran minimum.

[NSab]

I was just thinking that same exact thing, considering Priest has maybe 1 more year and the Chiefs need Def. help.

[muck]

Here's how I see it...

 

KC makes one last "veteran" push for the SB...and they fall short...and Vermeil is out and we get a new coach...and a youth movement.

 

If I were KC, I'd SERIOUSLY look at trading away Holmes and Gonzo...and...getting in return some combination of (1) an AWESOME cover corner, (2) a young WR with great upside, (3) two workman-like LBs who can tackle, and (4) a "prospect" QB who can eventually take over for Green (who is currently 34).

 

Maybe some of this can be done w/ players currently in the NFL, maybe some of it can be done via draft picks...dunno... It sure looks like "King" Carl Peterson sure has fouled up the last few drafts...

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I think the entire premise is flawed because I don't think any team would trade away "significant" defensive help for an aging, possibly injury prone RB.

 

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Exactly. They were talking about this on PTI today, apparently because a KC Star reporter wrote about it.

 

Here are the questions facing anyone trading for a KC RB:

 

1. How much of the success of Holmes, Johnson, AND Blaylock is due to a dominant offensive line?

2. How much tread is left on Holmes's tires?

 

Those two questions would prevent any NFL GM from giving up a good defensive player. Why do you KC homers believe differently? It's not even close, in my opinion.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Another point -- and this goes to the discussion of Gonzo as well: RBs and TEs are MUCH more difficult find than any defensive position. I think Denver and Minnesota have proven it with RBs and the emergence of Gates, McMichael, Pollard, and Crumpler have proven it with TEs.

 

The KC defense will improve through the draft and free agency.

[CaptainHook]

Nobody is going to trade anything of value for Priest Holmes. Look at what the Colts got out of Marshall Faulk. A second and fifth round pick. Whoop dee doo.

[gilthorp]

The question I have about Holmes is this:

 

If the Chiefs hadn't gotten off to such a sluggish start and were still in the mix of the playoffs, would he be on IR?

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that he would be on the field.

 

So, how injury prone is he if in fact they are just letting their guy rest? There are very few RB's in today's game that don't get injured and miss time.

[Ursa Majoris]

The question I have about Holmes is this:

 

If the Chiefs hadn't gotten off to such a sluggish start and were still in the mix of the playoffs, would he be on IR?

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that he would be on the field.

 

So, how injury prone is he if in fact they are just letting their guy rest? There are very few RB's in today's game that don't get injured and miss time.

 

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I can smell hope cookin' somewhere......

[Swiss Cheezhead]

The question I have about Holmes is this:

 

If the Chiefs hadn't gotten off to such a sluggish start and were still in the mix of the playoffs, would he be on IR?

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that he would be on the field.

 

So, how injury prone is he if in fact they are just letting their guy rest? There are very few RB's in today's game that don't get injured and miss time.

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He's been injury-prone since college. I believe he's had 3 knee surgeries (maybe 2?). In fact, injury problems were the reason he wasn't drafted higher.

[bill2]

agree 100% with steeler. no one is going to give up anything of value for holmes. he's this years version of m faulk. over 30 and getting hurt every year.

others mention miami trading for him. rumor has it that edge may end up on miami next year.

[Bill Swerski]

I could see them dealing Gonzalez, though.

 

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I'm no Chiefs expert, but there's no way that they will deal one of the greatest receiving TEs in NFL history. Especially not when their other receivers are mediocre at best and Gonzo is only 28.

 

Their best move would be to deal Holmes, but I don't think they would get much for him at this point. Unless they're able to dupe some GM into over-paying for Priest, dealing Johnson is the way to go. I'm sure that Johnson is a talented back and probably good enough to start on a lot of teams, but KC's O-line will inflate his numbers, assuring that someone will overpay for him. They'll need to draft another back in '06, though.

Edited December 15, 2004 by Bill Swerski

[muck]

Thinking some more about this...

 

If LJ and DB perform the same, LJ has higher trade value because he was a former 1st round pick.

 

Therefore, KC could showcase him for an offseason trade...where they keep PH and DB for next year...and draft a RB in round 3 or 4 in the next draft or two...

 

However, if KC were to trade Holmes and, say, a 4th rounder, they could end up w/ a 1st round pick...or a 2nd rounder w/ performance bonuses to a 1st and 5th or similar...

[gilthorp]

He's been injury-prone since college. I believe he's had 3 knee surgeries (maybe 2?). In fact, injury problems were the reason he wasn't drafted higher.

 

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Swiss, are you saying that if they were in the playoff hunt, he still would have been on IR? I'm thinking about the whole way it went down, he'd be out there right now.

 

 

Hope cookin or not, I do believe this.

 

Now, in regards to his trade value, he's reached that magic age that most NFL front office guys stay away from...but guys like Curtis Martin and Priest may continue to buck that trend.

Edited December 15, 2004 by gilthorp

[Bill Swerski]

but guys like Curtis Martin and Priest may continue to buck that trend.

 

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I wouldn't put Priest and C-Mart in the same category in terms of staying healthy in their 30s. C-Mart has only missed something like five games in 9+ years as a starter. Priest, on the other hand, has been seriously limited by injuries in the past and will continue to experience more as he gets older.

Edited December 15, 2004 by Bill Swerski

[gilthorp]

I wouldn't put Priest and C-Mart in the same category in terms of staying healthy in their 30s.  C-Mart has only missed something like five games in 9+ years as a starter.  Priest, on the other hand, has been seriously limited by injuries in the past and will continue to experience more as he gets older.

 

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Just grouped their age, Bill...that's all.

 

My premise is that if they didn't get off to such a crap start, he'd be out there today. I saw the hit he took, a wicked helmet to the knee. Before this year, he has missed 2 games as a Chief from the stats I'm looking at.

 

Who is to say Curtis Martin won't experience more as he gets older? Who is to say?

 

Edit to say: I don't have post season data.

Edited December 15, 2004 by gilthorp

[Bill Swerski]

My premise is that if they didn't get off to such a crap start, he'd be out there today. I saw the hit he took, a wicked helmet to the knee. Before this year, he has missed 2 games as a Chief from the stats I'm looking at.

 

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I agree that a muscle strain should only be a month-long injury and that they're being extra-cautious with him. IIRC, he had two major knee injuries before coming to the Chiefs (one was in college) and blew out his hip two years ago.

 

Who is to say Curtis Martin won't experience more as he gets older? Who is to say?

 

 

Oh, he certainly will experience more injuries. But C-Mart seems to be A LOT more durable than the average NFL RB. Didn't he play about half a season on a high ankle sprain a couple years ago? That's a 3-4 week injury for most players.

[gilthorp]

I agree that a muscle strain should only be a month-long injury and that they're being extra-cautious with him.  IIRC, he had two major knee injuries before coming to the Chiefs (one was in college) and blew out his hip two years ago.

Oh, he certainly will experience more injuries.  But C-Mart seems to be A LOT more durable than the average NFL RB.  Didn't he play about half a season on a high ankle sprain a couple years ago?  That's a 3-4 week injury for most players.

 

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You can't compare their durability since CuMart is as close to an iron man as they get. I was comparing that magical age that the GM's of the NFL start shying away from...but in today's NFL, maybe that's a trend that will be broken.

 

Hell, I even saw a story where Bam Morris will be making a come-back at age 33 next year now that he's turned his life around.

 

Although he's not at the magic age yet, I think Shaun Alexander will be the next iron man at RB...nothwithstanding injury this year, he'll have 5 straight 16 game seasons (4 straight as the workhorse)....but this is now off topic.

Edited December 15, 2004 by gilthorp

[Bill Swerski]

You can't compare their durability since CuMart is as close to an iron man as they get. I was comparing that magical age that the GM's of the NFL start shying away from...but in today's NFL, maybe that's a trend that will be broken.

 

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Not to mention Bettis, who also continues to amaze everyone.

 

Although he's not at the magic age yet, I think Shaun Alexander will be the next iron man at RB...nothwithstanding injury this year, he'll have 5 straight 16 game seasons (4 straight as the workhorse)....but this is now off topic.

 

It seems that way so far. LT deserves mention as well.

 

I'd really like to see coaches make a serious effort to limit their backs to around 20 carries/game in non-playoff situations. I feel really bad for guys like Eddie George.

 

Now I'm getting off topic as well...

[Big Red]

Was not part of the reason Priest signed in KC was because it was the closest to Texas he was offered? I know that's not the entire reason (like a starting job), but I believe he travels a lot during the week to be with his family.

 

I doubt Priest takes a trade anywhere. The guy thought about retiring last year. I think it's KC or nothing.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Swiss, are you saying that if they were in the playoff hunt, he still would have been on IR? I'm thinking about the whole way it went down, he'd be out there right now.

 

 

Hope cookin or not, I do believe this.

 

Now, in regards to his trade value, he's reached that magic age that most NFL front office guys stay away from...but guys like Curtis Martin and Priest may continue to buck that trend.

 

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Well, I wouldn't be surprised to see Priest playing right now if the Chiefs were in the playoff mix, but I don't think he'd be 100%.

 

All I'm saying is this: it's a fact that Holmes has a history of injuries -- a few of them very serious. It's also a fact that as ANY player gets older, injuries happen more frequently and recovery time increases. It's ALMOST a fact that Priest isn't quite as good as his numbers (because of an amazing O-line).

 

Given those two facts (and one assumption), what do you think an NFL GM would realistically give up for Holmes? There's NO way he'd give up a proven defensive player, but muck's recent idea is much more realistic.