kcmast Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 His stats may make him look like it, but here are the first 2 plays of the Vikings drive with 1:58 left down by 11 on their own 20: 1 yard to TE who can't get out of bounds 8 yards to RB in the middle of the field 1:02 left. 56 seconds for 9 yards! 1 yard to Wiggins? Throw it away, you wasted 30 seconds for 1 yard. A great QB does not make plays like that. Yeah 11 points in under 2:00 isn't likely, but when you make decisions like that, it's impossible. Unbelievable physical ability, but doesn't have it upstairs, at least not yet. Will he ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I keep saying this but nobody believes me. Culpepper is not only not a great QB, he's a TERRIBLE QB. I don't know of any QB with a better supporting cast that's managed to eff it up so consistently. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I keep saying this but nobody believes me. Culpepper is not only not a great QB, he's a TERRIBLE QB. 639616[/snapback] I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but Culpepper certainly isn't an "elite" QB in my opinion anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbucklers Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Then who would you lump in to the elite QB group? I am not saying he should be in it, but who should? Manning for sure. McNabb? Favre? Brady? Harrington? I am happy with his performance fantasy-wise because he won me a title, but I think there are very few QB's that can be put in the elite group!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I keep saying this but nobody believes me. Culpepper is not only not a great QB, he's a TERRIBLE QB. I don't know of any QB with a better supporting cast that's managed to eff it up so consistently. Peace policy 639616[/snapback] Yeah, gimme Joey Harrington anyday. :oldrolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egret Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 This is ridiculous. Culpepper has 41 total TDs this year. If you think that's a TERRIBLE QB, you might want to rethink how you evaluate QBs. Culpepper has not been the problem for Minny. Their defense has been abysmal for many years. Their coaching has taken a huge dive since Denny left. That's why they've had troubles, not Culpepper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Then who would you lump in to the elite QB group? I am not saying he should be in it, but who should? Manning for sure. McNabb? Favre? Brady? Harrington? I am happy with his performance fantasy-wise because he won me a title, but I think there are very few QB's that can be put in the elite group!!! 639643[/snapback] Elite QBs: Manning, Favre, Brady, McNabb Good QBs: Culpepper, Green, Pennington, Roethlisberger, Brees, McNair, Delhomme, Vick (if one accounts for rushing numbers) Average QBs: Bulger, Bledsoe, Leftwich, Plummer, Griese, Hasselbeck, Brooks, Palmer, Collins Below average QBs: Boller, Hutchinson, Garcia, Carr, Feeley, Harrington, McCown, Vinny, Ramsey, Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Yeah, gimme Joey Harrington anyday. :oldrolleyes: 639645[/snapback] Well maybe there shouldn't be that many "Elite" QB's. If there were they wouldn't be "Elite". Manning, McNabb, Favre and I guess the masses would expect to have Brady's name there also. Delhomme showed up big this year also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 fantasy-wise...the guy who won our league had him @ QB...-and not much else. (he also won about 3 years ago and had Pep then too.) he's certainly a top 3 FANTASY QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Elite QBs: Manning, Favre, Brady, McNabb Good QBs: Culpepper, Green, Pennington, Roethlisberger, Brees, McNair, Delhomme, Vick (if one accounts for rushing numbers) Average QBs: Bulger, Bledsoe, Leftwich, Plummer, Griese, Hasselbeck, Brooks, Palmer, Collins Below average QBs: Boller, Hutchinson, Garcia, Carr, Feeley, Harrington, McCown, Vinny, Ramsey, Eli 639650[/snapback] Elite QB's: Manning, McNabb Very Good QB's: Culpepper, Farve (Used to be elite), Brady (This may be over rating him) Good QB's: Green, Brees, McNair (Used to be very good), Leftwich (He is on the rise), Griese (Looks like he has finaly found his place), Collins Average QB's: Pennington, Delhome, Vick (If he couldn't run he'd be below average), Bulger (Used to be good, could be again), Hasslebeck (Could be good if he had someone who could catch other than Rice), Rothlesburger ( I may have under rated him, but the jury is still out) Below Average: Everyone Else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 fantasy-wise...the guy who won our league had him @ QB...-and not much else.(he also won about 3 years ago and had Pep then too.) he's certainly a top 3 FANTASY QB 639657[/snapback] If you sre talking FF yes but, as a QB to lead a team to a SB - No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 As long as he keeps leading me to the FF super bowl, i dont care if the vikings ever win a game...he's led me to 2 straight FF titles........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 fantasy-wise...the guy who won our league had him @ QB...-and not much else.(he also won about 3 years ago and had Pep then too.) he's certainly a top 3 FANTASY QB 639657[/snapback] I'm talking NFL. Fantasy wise, he is easily top 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Is Culpepper an elite QB? No, not yet anyway. He hasn't won a real big game when it counts and he needs to find a way to come from behind more often... but I think that he definitely has the potential to become one of the best. His first couple of seasons he was a rushing fool (ala Michael Vick but not as exciting). He has really settled down and become more patient over the last few years. I think that his biggest problems right now are his O-line and his Offensive Coaching staff. The number of game-changing penalities by the offense, down this recent stretch has just been ridiculous. Shows a complete lack of discipline. And the play calling has been sophmoric at best. Find a way to improve those two things and Culpepper at least has a chance to improve and become the Superstar that many experts think he can become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 TD breakdown versus defense pass rating (ypg/TD not fantasy points) 5 Cowboys #22/26 5 Texans #21/31 5 Saints #27/18 4 Packers #26/32 3 Packers #26/32 3 Lions #19/26 2 Bears #12/16 2 Bears #12/16 2 Lions #19/26 2 Redskins #5/3 (last second prevent TD) 1 Eagles #15/3 1 Titans #25/24 1 Giants #9/24 1 Colts #31/22 1 Jaguars #16/11 1 Seahawks #23/18 looks like good stats against bad defensive teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 As a FF QB you could argue that he has been the best at his position since 2000. It's taken Manning to have the best year of all time for him to maintain with Culpepper. Culpepper has 127 passing TD's, 28 rushing TD's, 18,299 yards passing and 2,305 rushing Manning has 164 passing TD's, 7 TD's rushing, 21,562 yards passing and 485 yards rushing This is all in 7 less games than Manning has played over the same period. These 2 QB's are far and away above any of the other QB's even being discussed. Besides fantasy Culpepper's passer rating is 112.2 which would break Steve Youngs record over a season if not for Manning. Remember he is doing this with a gimpy Moss who missed 6 games this year IIRC. His RB's haven't exactly been the model of consistency either, Culpepper is the second leading rusher on the team with less than 400 yards. I sure don't put Mcnabb in the elite class. Leading your team to 3 straight NFC championship losses isn't impressive. Neither is everyone jumping off the Philly bandwagon when T.O. goes down. I guess you see who really makes that offense go. It's not Daunte's fault that the Viking's D has been so bad Vikings D ranking in points given up 2001 26th out of 31 2002 30th out of 32 2003 23rd out of 32 2004 25th out of 32 Compare that to Philly's D and points given up 2001 2nd out 31 2002 2nd out 32 2003 7th out of 32 2004 1st out of 32 Come on ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Being a FF team owner, why would we care if you think he is good or not. All he does is SCORE POINTS. Really, that's the bottem line, IMO. In a keeper league, i hope their D remains to be awful.........more points for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 Just discussing something other than fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Just discussing something other than fantasy. 639711[/snapback] There are such things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I don't know of any QB with a better supporting cast that's managed to eff it up so consistently. 639616[/snapback] Aaron Brooks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) There are such things? 639716[/snapback] Not until you're emiminated from the playoffs! Edited January 2, 2005 by kcmast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Just discussing something other than fantasy. 639711[/snapback] kc...I think you made a good point. Daunte has cut down his turnovers this year quite a bit. But alot of that has to do with him, imo, looking at his #1 option and if he's not open, skipping his #2 and #3 options and looking for the quick dumpoff in the te or rb. Problem is...when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter, he needs to forego that strategy and start to wing it down field a little more. I've seen this happen quite a bit this season when they are trying to make a comeback. While it can't be considered the major factor in the Vikess losing, it is a factor in him becoming that elite qb that can lead his team to a late victory. So far....I think he's learned from his more gambling style in the first few years, and has probably taken it too much to the extreme in the other direction this year. He needs to find a midpoint in between there somewheres...sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 As a FF QB you could argue that he has been the best at his position since 2000. It's taken Manning to have the best year of all time for him to maintain with Culpepper. 639706[/snapback] Agreed, but many of us are talking about C-Pep as a "real-world" QB, not a fantasy QB. I sure don't put Mcnabb in the elite class. Leading your team to 3 straight NFC championship losses isn't impressive. Neither is everyone jumping off the Philly bandwagon when T.O. goes down. I guess you see who really makes that offense go. One could make a case that McNabb isn't an "elite" QB, but I'd take him any day over Culpepper. McNabb has easily had the worst set of receivers in the league over the past few years (Pinkston, Mitchell, Thrash), yet has put up 20 or more passing TDs in three of his four full seasons. Going into this weekend, he was at 31 passing TDs (+ 3 rushing) and only 8 INTs. McNabb's never thrown more than 13 INTs in a season, while Culpepper had an embarrassing 23 just two years ago. And don't even get me started on Culpepper's fumbles... Oh, and even without TO, McNabb carried that wretched offense into the playoffs FOUR straight years. How many years has Daunte taken his team to the playoffs? And don't give me the "bad defense" argument. Peyton Manning's taken his team's crappy D into the playoffs in FIVE of the past six years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Culpepper was under pressure all day. He made the most out of his opportunities. Not only did his line not protect him, they also were called for holding on a big Moss Td play. Culpepper was playing against a good defense today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) Agreed, but many of us are talking about C-Pep as a "real-world" QB, not a fantasy QB. 639728[/snapback] So then how do you determine a QB in the real world? Is it just wins and losses? Because then you can say Vick is an elite QB based on his winning %. One could make a case that McNabb isn't an "elite" QB, but I'd take him any day over Culpepper. McNabb has easily had the worst set of receivers in the league over the past few years (Pinkston, Mitchell, Thrash), yet has put up 20 or more passing TDs in three of his four full seasons. 639728[/snapback] Unimpressive. A lot of QB's can say that if you want to go with the "full season" Trent Green Aaron Brooks Drew Bledsoe Jeff Garcia But Mcnabb did put up back to back seasons of 16 and 17 TD's with a pretty average QB rating. Oh, and even without TO, McNabb carried that wretched offense into the playoffs FOUR straight years. How many years has Daunte taken his team to the playoffs? And don't give me the "bad defense" argument. Peyton Manning's taken his team's crappy D into the playoffs in FIVE of the past six years. 639728[/snapback] Mcnabb didn't carry that offense into the playoff's. The Eagle defense carried that offense. Maybe you didn't look but the Eagle D ranked 2nd or better in 3 out of the last 4 years. *** is Mcnabb carrying? He sure didn't do anything once he got into the playoff's; in 9 postseason games Mcnabb has thrown 11 TD's and 8 INT's. In 5 of those games he threw less than 200 yards culminating in his masterpiece last year with 100 yards passing and 3 INT's. Yeah he's been doing something alright. You also might want to remember that Indy's D in 2002 was ranked 8th in points given up, in 2003 they were 20th and this year they were 17th. Those are all much better numbers than what Minnesota's defense has done............ Edited January 3, 2005 by phenom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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