Jump to content
[[Template core/front/custom/_customHeader is throwing an error. This theme may be out of date. Run the support tool in the AdminCP to restore the default theme.]]

Heisman


iceman717
 Share

Recommended Posts

Away from all the hoop-la over the National Champioship I've heard enough arguing over that. Who do you guys think should win the Heisman?

 

My vote goes to Larry Fitzgerald the guy is simply remarkable and even if teams double cover him he still catches the ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I agree - Fitzgerald may "deserve it" a little more than JWhite as the MVP for his team, because no way is Pitt as good without him. Also LF does things that are just so physically astounding. Meanwhile, Sooners would probably still win 11 or 12 without White.

 

However, if I had to bet money on who WILL win, I'd go with White as the best player on the best team. If USC wasn't getting stronger and stronger down the stretch last year (maybe the best team in the US in Jan. 2003,) then Palmer would not have gotten it, due to being a one-year wonder and having lost 2 games.

 

Here's a twist - assuming those 2 are in, who else deserves to be a finalist sitting in the front row that night?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sgt. Ryan:

OU wins this weekend and next and White is a lock.

I anticipate White will win it too, but it's anything but a lock. The voting will be very close. Fitzgerald is going to be #1 on a lot of ballots.

 

Plus, I don't see White being in a position to sway voters by beating up on Texas Texh and their anemic defense. Fitzgerald, on the other hand, has a terrific opportunity to leave his mark with voters by having a big game vs. Miami in prime time next Saturday. One huge "spotlight" game has won it for a lot of guys.

 

Oh and I'm not sure who White's playing against next weekend but family picnics don't count. And most voters' ballots will be returned before the Big 12 Championship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coffeeman:

Here's a twist - assuming those 2 are in, who else deserves to be a finalist sitting in the front row that night?

QB from USC! I don't think he will garner as many votes as the QB from Oklahaoma, but I feel he is a much better QB.

My order of finish would be,

1. Fitzgerald

2. Leinart

3. who cares...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on Leinart, and not just because I'm a Trojan homer :D Something like 19-20 TDs now without an INT - impressive. Ironically, his main "competition" is more Carson Palmer, Norm Chow & Mike Williams than JWhite and LFitzgerald!

 

They won't give it to a QB from the same team two years in a row, Mike W. is a stud WR who also gets his share of Heisman attention to split any potential Trojan votes, and Chow's "system" is given more credit than the (very talented) individual at the wheel.

 

Here's a potential bummer scenario: JWhite wins the statue in mid-December, OU and USC go at it in the NC game, Leinart outperforms White by a large margin. Regardless of who wins the game, but especailly if the USC can pull off the huge upset, guess what people will say? "Its the system/look at those RBs & WRs/the D stopped White/the QB at USC was not the key," etc.

 

Leinart is screwed either way...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heisman tends to go to "best player on best team" these days - at least, that's who the front-runners are; I'd put White as the front-runner, Fitzgerald is a LOCK for #2 (won't win it, but won't finish 3rd either); my best bet for #3 would probably be Leinart.

 

I'd expect Eli Manning, BJ Symons, and if UM's running game does well vs the Buckeyes, Chris Perry to be in the building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

fitzgerald should win it hands down, but the sad part of it is white will get votes because oklahomo is undefeated. white is not even the best qb in college. manning and rivers are both better than white but they are not undeafeted. theres even two qb's in the mac better than white for miami and bowling green.

 

fitzgerald though is by far the best college player in nation by far!

 

coxxy rules go buckeyes forever!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sgt. Ryan:

Jason White  

238 completions

364 attempts

3436 pass yds

65.3 CMP%

40  TDs

6 Ints

174.4 QB rating

12-0 Record

 

 

Matt Leinart

210 completions

330 attempts

2951 pass yds

63.6 CMP%

30  TDs

7 Ints

164.4 QB rating

10-1 Record

 

For Leinhart whos played 1 less game than white to equal White in statistics he'd need the following

 

28-34  485 yds, 10 TDS with 0 ints and he still couldn't equal white who has 1 less int in 1 more game. Leinart would have to increase his passer rating by 10 pts and his Comp% by 1.5 pts in 1 game which is virtually impossible.

 

White dominates him in every single category with 1 less int in 1 less game played.

 

If anyone thinks the USC QB can throw for 10 Tds next week kindly run your mouth.

 

Oh and White is undefeated, Leinart lost to Cal.

 

 

Eli Manning

234 completions

383 attempts

3081 pass yds

61.0 CMP%

24  TDs

8 Ints

149.8 QB rating

8-3 Record

 

Philip Rivers

311 completions

438 attempts

4016 pass yds

71.0 CMP%

29  TDs

7 Ints

169.8 QB rating

7-5 Record

 

Rivers is the only one comparable to White.

Rivers has thrown 11 TDs less in 74 more attempts and has a lower passer rating by 5 pts and 1 more INT than White.  Rivers did however have more attempts/Completions and a higher completion % with 5 more loses than White.

 

 

So its pretty obvious White deserves and will win the Heisman with Fitzgerald a distant 2nd.

 

And just to shut up Primos once and for all, I dug up some MAC stats below

 

Ben Roethlisberger - Miami of Ohio

252 completions

370 attempts

3049 pass yds

68.1 CMP%

20 TDs

9 Ints

150.3 QB rating

9-1 Record

 

 

Josh Harris - Bowling Green QB

221 completions

342 attempts

2769 pass yds

64.6 CMP%

17 TDs

9 Ints

143.8 QB rating

8-2 Record

 

Neither of these 2 even compare statistically with White and both play in a non BCS conferences.

 

 

Jason White is the Heisman Trophy Winner for 2003  And it wont be close....

IMO...

Fitzgerald should win this, hands down! But I don't think he will. Leinert should be second.

As for White, no freakin way should he win, or even be in the top 5. The award should go to the best FOOTBALL PLAYER, not the star player on the #1 ranked team. White, while being a solid player, is more a product of:

a - OU's team strength (according to Trev "Big XII" Alberts), and

b - OU's schedule, or lack there of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ryan you must suffer from ADD. If you had been paying attention, you'd know that White's main competition for the trophy is not another QB, it's Larry Fitzgerald. Even the guy you think you're arguing with said he thought Fitzgerald should win it.

 

How do a bunch of QB stats support your conclusion that White will win and Fitzgerald will be "a distant second"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ryan, I don't know if that was aimed at me or not, but here goes - I would give it to Fitzgerald over White, but I think you are right on who WILL win it. My other comment was asking for predictions about other finalists/"invitees" - Leinart, CPerry and either Eli Manning or BJ Symons are my predictions.

 

But Leinart won't get there unless USC buries the final opponent (OS Beavers) on 12/6. However, I'm not concerned on that. Trojans have covered the spread on every game except Cal.

 

As far as my "bummer scenario", Kevin is right - I will be ecstatic if Trojans could do it, but it would just highlight the kind of year sophomore Leinart is having. But I admit that it will take some luck on our part vs. a great OU team. (Let's see if Ryan somehow takes this as a slight against his vaunted team. Sheeesh, dude...) Heck, we may not even get there if LSU wins out.

 

The good news is, win or lose, he and the Trojans will be right back in the mix next year - no rebuilding needed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All-time best passing efficiency ratings:

 

1. Jim McMahon - Brigham Young - 176.9

2. Ty Detmer - Brigham Young - 175.6

3. Trent Dilfer - Fresno State - 173.1

4. Jerry Rhome - Tulsa - 172.6

5. Rex Grossman - Florida - 170.8

6. Danny Wuerffel - Florida - 170.6

7. Bart Hendricks - Boise St. - 170.6

8. Daunte Culpepper - UCF - 170.2

9. Billy Blanton - San Diego St. - 169.6

10. Ty Detmer - Brigham Young - 168.5

11. Steve Young - Brigham Young - 168.5

12. David Carr - Fresno St. - 166.7

13. Byron Leftwich - Marshall - 164.6

14. Chris Weinke - Florida St. - 163.1

15. Dennis Shaw - San Diego St. - 162.2

 

Jason Whites current rating: 177.9

 

Will most likely finish the season as the highest rated passer of all time. Case closed. End of story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm...

 

I don't think I ever mention any of the players on the list wining the Heisman. My point, which obviously orbited over your head, is that if/when White sets the all-time eff. rating, he deserves to win the Heisman for his performance THIS year. Next time, I'd suggest that you spend less time thinking of a way to disclaim my post, and more time reading said post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave is absolutely right, a high QB ranking alone does not necessarily merit winning the Heisman trophy.

 

Let's look at the QB ranking list and see which 3 won the Heisman. Weinke (2000), Weurffel (1996), Detmer (1990).

 

In 1996, Weurffel led Florida to a National Championship. In 2000 Oklahoma won. In 1990 Colorado (& Georgia Tech) won.

 

OK I'm having trouble finding the stats. I would like to compare the team's W-L record the year these QB had the high rankings but I'm not going to get it done right now. Anybody else have this info handy?

 

Did any of these other guys that did not win the Heisman lead their team to an undefeated regular season record like White did for Oklahoma?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

McSooner:

 My point, which obviously orbited over your head, is that if/when White sets the all-time eff. rating, he deserves to win the Heisman

If you'd just pull your head out of your a$$, you'd recognize that my point is, there's no correlation between a high QB efficiency rating and winning the Heisman Trophy. Your very own list establishes this fact. Therefore, you illustrated your ignorance when you originally implied (and later stated explicitly) that White deserves to win the Heisman on the basis of his QB eff. rating.

 

Please tell me you're not really that slow McSooner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ryan I'm a die hard SOONER fan myself.... And do agree White has done outstanding this year!!!!!! Effcy. or whatever stats he rewrote....

 

But BJ Symons name has to be mentioned. He threw for over 5300 yards. Thats a fu** ton.

 

And face it my friend the chance of White playing on Sundays probaly is not gonna happen. But I can forsee BJ getting a shot in the NFL.

 

And this brings up my point: If White is no-shi* the best player in College Football, and not just the trigger man on the best team in Div 1-A, then he deserves the Heisman. But please don't kid yourself or try to convince me that BJ could not have pulled the trigger for OU as well as White has if not better.

 

 

Symons Passing Rushing

Comp Att Pct. Yds TD INT Att Yds Avg TD

03Season 429 666 64.4 5336 48 21 74 140 1.9 5

 

White Passing Rushing

Comp Att Pct. Yds TD INT Att Yds Avg TD

03Season 238 364 65.4 3446 40 6 32 -98 -3.1 1

 

 

Whites numbers are inpresive no doubt, but how in the hell can BJ break a major Div-1 record and not be at least #2 in the Heisman race.

 

Only real differences in the numbers, that are in Whites favor, are the interceptions BJ threw; other than that the Pct's are almost the same, and BJ out scrambled White which is evident of his rushing totals.

 

BIG QUESTION????????????????????

(This relates to being the best player in College Football)

 

Would White have put up the same numbers that BJ did if White was the starter for Tech????And playing catch-up all the time.

 

Sorry man I LOVE my Sooners but White is not the best PLAYER in Div-1 College Ball...He's just not :D He's just on the best team!!!!!!!!!

 

 

GO SOONERS BEAT THE H E L L OUT OF USC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information