iceman717 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Away from all the hoop-la over the National Champioship I've heard enough arguing over that. Who do you guys think should win the Heisman? My vote goes to Larry Fitzgerald the guy is simply remarkable and even if teams double cover him he still catches the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansas State 2000 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Larry Fitzgerald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyleaguecommish Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Michigan Offensive Line wink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Fitzgerald a close second to the QB at Oklahoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Should be Fitzgerald, hands down! But, he'll probably end up getting screwed out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Fitzgerald,but I doubt they'll give it to a sophomore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I agree - Fitzgerald may "deserve it" a little more than JWhite as the MVP for his team, because no way is Pitt as good without him. Also LF does things that are just so physically astounding. Meanwhile, Sooners would probably still win 11 or 12 without White. However, if I had to bet money on who WILL win, I'd go with White as the best player on the best team. If USC wasn't getting stronger and stronger down the stretch last year (maybe the best team in the US in Jan. 2003,) then Palmer would not have gotten it, due to being a one-year wonder and having lost 2 games. Here's a twist - assuming those 2 are in, who else deserves to be a finalist sitting in the front row that night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davearm Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Sgt. Ryan: OU wins this weekend and next and White is a lock. I anticipate White will win it too, but it's anything but a lock. The voting will be very close. Fitzgerald is going to be #1 on a lot of ballots. Plus, I don't see White being in a position to sway voters by beating up on Texas Texh and their anemic defense. Fitzgerald, on the other hand, has a terrific opportunity to leave his mark with voters by having a big game vs. Miami in prime time next Saturday. One huge "spotlight" game has won it for a lot of guys. Oh and I'm not sure who White's playing against next weekend but family picnics don't count. And most voters' ballots will be returned before the Big 12 Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Coffeeman: Here's a twist - assuming those 2 are in, who else deserves to be a finalist sitting in the front row that night? QB from USC! I don't think he will garner as many votes as the QB from Oklahaoma, but I feel he is a much better QB.My order of finish would be, 1. Fitzgerald 2. Leinart 3. who cares... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I agree on Leinart, and not just because I'm a Trojan homer Something like 19-20 TDs now without an INT - impressive. Ironically, his main "competition" is more Carson Palmer, Norm Chow & Mike Williams than JWhite and LFitzgerald! They won't give it to a QB from the same team two years in a row, Mike W. is a stud WR who also gets his share of Heisman attention to split any potential Trojan votes, and Chow's "system" is given more credit than the (very talented) individual at the wheel. Here's a potential bummer scenario: JWhite wins the statue in mid-December, OU and USC go at it in the NC game, Leinart outperforms White by a large margin. Regardless of who wins the game, but especailly if the USC can pull off the huge upset, guess what people will say? "Its the system/look at those RBs & WRs/the D stopped White/the QB at USC was not the key," etc. Leinart is screwed either way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Heisman tends to go to "best player on best team" these days - at least, that's who the front-runners are; I'd put White as the front-runner, Fitzgerald is a LOCK for #2 (won't win it, but won't finish 3rd either); my best bet for #3 would probably be Leinart. I'd expect Eli Manning, BJ Symons, and if UM's running game does well vs the Buckeyes, Chris Perry to be in the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Coffeeman: Here's a potential bummer scenario: ... USC can pull off the huge upset ... Man if I was a USC fan I would not call that a bummer! But yeah I see how with the Carson Palmer situation it makes it tough on Leinart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 If, and this is a HUGH if, Ole Miss beats LSU, Eli Manning will win the Heisman. That is unless Espn gets behind another Woodson.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Chavezif UM's running game does well vs the Buckeyes, Chris Perry to be in the building. 144 yds, 2 tds for the Big Ten champs. Not a bad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamprimos Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 fitzgerald should win it hands down, but the sad part of it is white will get votes because oklahomo is undefeated. white is not even the best qb in college. manning and rivers are both better than white but they are not undeafeted. theres even two qb's in the mac better than white for miami and bowling green. fitzgerald though is by far the best college player in nation by far! coxxy rules go buckeyes forever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Sgt. Ryan: Jason White 238 completions 364 attempts 3436 pass yds 65.3 CMP% 40 TDs 6 Ints 174.4 QB rating 12-0 Record Matt Leinart 210 completions 330 attempts 2951 pass yds 63.6 CMP% 30 TDs 7 Ints 164.4 QB rating 10-1 Record For Leinhart whos played 1 less game than white to equal White in statistics he'd need the following 28-34 485 yds, 10 TDS with 0 ints and he still couldn't equal white who has 1 less int in 1 more game. Leinart would have to increase his passer rating by 10 pts and his Comp% by 1.5 pts in 1 game which is virtually impossible. White dominates him in every single category with 1 less int in 1 less game played. If anyone thinks the USC QB can throw for 10 Tds next week kindly run your mouth. Oh and White is undefeated, Leinart lost to Cal. Eli Manning 234 completions 383 attempts 3081 pass yds 61.0 CMP% 24 TDs 8 Ints 149.8 QB rating 8-3 Record Philip Rivers 311 completions 438 attempts 4016 pass yds 71.0 CMP% 29 TDs 7 Ints 169.8 QB rating 7-5 Record Rivers is the only one comparable to White. Rivers has thrown 11 TDs less in 74 more attempts and has a lower passer rating by 5 pts and 1 more INT than White. Rivers did however have more attempts/Completions and a higher completion % with 5 more loses than White. So its pretty obvious White deserves and will win the Heisman with Fitzgerald a distant 2nd. And just to shut up Primos once and for all, I dug up some MAC stats below Ben Roethlisberger - Miami of Ohio 252 completions 370 attempts 3049 pass yds 68.1 CMP% 20 TDs 9 Ints 150.3 QB rating 9-1 Record Josh Harris - Bowling Green QB 221 completions 342 attempts 2769 pass yds 64.6 CMP% 17 TDs 9 Ints 143.8 QB rating 8-2 Record Neither of these 2 even compare statistically with White and both play in a non BCS conferences. Jason White is the Heisman Trophy Winner for 2003 And it wont be close.... IMO...Fitzgerald should win this, hands down! But I don't think he will. Leinert should be second. As for White, no freakin way should he win, or even be in the top 5. The award should go to the best FOOTBALL PLAYER, not the star player on the #1 ranked team. White, while being a solid player, is more a product of: a - OU's team strength (according to Trev "Big XII" Alberts), and b - OU's schedule, or lack there of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davearm Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Ryan you must suffer from ADD. If you had been paying attention, you'd know that White's main competition for the trophy is not another QB, it's Larry Fitzgerald. Even the guy you think you're arguing with said he thought Fitzgerald should win it. How do a bunch of QB stats support your conclusion that White will win and Fitzgerald will be "a distant second"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Ryan, I don't know if that was aimed at me or not, but here goes - I would give it to Fitzgerald over White, but I think you are right on who WILL win it. My other comment was asking for predictions about other finalists/"invitees" - Leinart, CPerry and either Eli Manning or BJ Symons are my predictions. But Leinart won't get there unless USC buries the final opponent (OS Beavers) on 12/6. However, I'm not concerned on that. Trojans have covered the spread on every game except Cal. As far as my "bummer scenario", Kevin is right - I will be ecstatic if Trojans could do it, but it would just highlight the kind of year sophomore Leinart is having. But I admit that it will take some luck on our part vs. a great OU team. (Let's see if Ryan somehow takes this as a slight against his vaunted team. Sheeesh, dude...) Heck, we may not even get there if LSU wins out. The good news is, win or lose, he and the Trojans will be right back in the mix next year - no rebuilding needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSooner Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 All-time best passing efficiency ratings: 1. Jim McMahon - Brigham Young - 176.9 2. Ty Detmer - Brigham Young - 175.6 3. Trent Dilfer - Fresno State - 173.1 4. Jerry Rhome - Tulsa - 172.6 5. Rex Grossman - Florida - 170.8 6. Danny Wuerffel - Florida - 170.6 7. Bart Hendricks - Boise St. - 170.6 8. Daunte Culpepper - UCF - 170.2 9. Billy Blanton - San Diego St. - 169.6 10. Ty Detmer - Brigham Young - 168.5 11. Steve Young - Brigham Young - 168.5 12. David Carr - Fresno St. - 166.7 13. Byron Leftwich - Marshall - 164.6 14. Chris Weinke - Florida St. - 163.1 15. Dennis Shaw - San Diego St. - 162.2 Jason Whites current rating: 177.9 Will most likely finish the season as the highest rated passer of all time. Case closed. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davearm Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Impressive list McSooner... in fact three of those guys were so good, they actually won the Heisman Trophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSooner Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hmmm... I don't think I ever mention any of the players on the list wining the Heisman. My point, which obviously orbited over your head, is that if/when White sets the all-time eff. rating, he deserves to win the Heisman for his performance THIS year. Next time, I'd suggest that you spend less time thinking of a way to disclaim my post, and more time reading said post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Dave is absolutely right, a high QB ranking alone does not necessarily merit winning the Heisman trophy. Let's look at the QB ranking list and see which 3 won the Heisman. Weinke (2000), Weurffel (1996), Detmer (1990). In 1996, Weurffel led Florida to a National Championship. In 2000 Oklahoma won. In 1990 Colorado (& Georgia Tech) won. OK I'm having trouble finding the stats. I would like to compare the team's W-L record the year these QB had the high rankings but I'm not going to get it done right now. Anybody else have this info handy? Did any of these other guys that did not win the Heisman lead their team to an undefeated regular season record like White did for Oklahoma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davearm Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 McSooner: My point, which obviously orbited over your head, is that if/when White sets the all-time eff. rating, he deserves to win the Heisman If you'd just pull your head out of your a$$, you'd recognize that my point is, there's no correlation between a high QB efficiency rating and winning the Heisman Trophy. Your very own list establishes this fact. Therefore, you illustrated your ignorance when you originally implied (and later stated explicitly) that White deserves to win the Heisman on the basis of his QB eff. rating. Please tell me you're not really that slow McSooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish-boy Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Ryan I'm a die hard SOONER fan myself.... And do agree White has done outstanding this year!!!!!! Effcy. or whatever stats he rewrote.... But BJ Symons name has to be mentioned. He threw for over 5300 yards. Thats a fu** ton. And face it my friend the chance of White playing on Sundays probaly is not gonna happen. But I can forsee BJ getting a shot in the NFL. And this brings up my point: If White is no-shi* the best player in College Football, and not just the trigger man on the best team in Div 1-A, then he deserves the Heisman. But please don't kid yourself or try to convince me that BJ could not have pulled the trigger for OU as well as White has if not better. Symons Passing Rushing Comp Att Pct. Yds TD INT Att Yds Avg TD 03Season 429 666 64.4 5336 48 21 74 140 1.9 5 White Passing Rushing Comp Att Pct. Yds TD INT Att Yds Avg TD 03Season 238 364 65.4 3446 40 6 32 -98 -3.1 1 Whites numbers are inpresive no doubt, but how in the hell can BJ break a major Div-1 record and not be at least #2 in the Heisman race. Only real differences in the numbers, that are in Whites favor, are the interceptions BJ threw; other than that the Pct's are almost the same, and BJ out scrambled White which is evident of his rushing totals. BIG QUESTION???????????????????? (This relates to being the best player in College Football) Would White have put up the same numbers that BJ did if White was the starter for Tech????And playing catch-up all the time. Sorry man I LOVE my Sooners but White is not the best PLAYER in Div-1 College Ball...He's just not He's just on the best team!!!!!!!!! GO SOONERS BEAT THE H E L L OUT OF USC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyleaguecommish Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 dirtyleaguecommish: Michigan Offensive Line wink Come on now. Make it easier on yourselves and vote as mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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