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Is Health Care a Right?


Perchoutofwater
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Funny how the folks that are arguing against universal healthcare aren't saying much about the universal system already in place... the emergency room and what the uninsured using that as primary healthcare costs everyone.

 

 

Why, if this Bill passes, the visits will more than triple.

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Funny how the folks that are arguing against universal healthcare aren't saying much about the universal system already in place... the emergency room and what the uninsured using that as primary healthcare costs everyone.

 

Funny also the wife and I have a couple of friends that are destitute and don't want the health care. One has even cheated the system , got FREE MRI's (after hours) cause she knew some one. She feels Obama is the anti-Christ. Just can't figger that. :wacko:

Let's say anyone here has the power to mandate health care.

Let's say a Mexican, illegal comes into the ER.

Let's say his arm was just cut off in a machine.

What do we do?

Hey, I hate giving my $$$ to illegals also, but shouldn't we be a society of mercy also?

Do we put TSA agents in hospitals to screen the good patients from bad?

Just let them die if they are illegal?

If our politicians didn't blow $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ out the window on their "causes" we'd have plenty of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to at least provide ALL people with some care.

If you don't agree w/ this, then let them die! Simple solution...and it saves our $$$$$$$$$$$$!

I'd like to think the good old USA is better than that, but it seems many people would rather save a few $$$ and let the poor bastages DIE!

I have no answers, no solutions, but I have a lot of feelings towards ALL people in OUR country.

"We will be measured by how we live our lives. We will NOT be measured by how much $$$$$ we have left".

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Funny also the wife and I have a couple of friends that are destitute and don't want the health care. One has even cheated the system , got FREE MRI's (after hours) cause she knew some one. She feels Obama is the anti-Christ. Just can't figger that. :wacko:

Let's say anyone here has the power to mandate health care.

Let's say a Mexican, illegal comes into the ER.

Let's say his arm was just cut off in a machine.

What do we do?

Hey, I hate giving my $$$ to illegals also, but shouldn't we be a society of mercy also?

Do we put TSA agents in hospitals to screen the good patients from bad?

Just let them die if they are illegal?

If our politicians didn't blow $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ out the window on their "causes" we'd have plenty of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to at least provide ALL people with some care.

If you don't agree w/ this, then let them die! Simple solution...and it saves our $$$$$$$$$$$$!

I'd like to think the good old USA is better than that, but it seems many people would rather save a few $$$ and let the poor bastages DIE!

I have no answers, no solutions, but I have a lot of feelings towards ALL people in OUR country.

"We will be measured by how we live our lives. We will NOT be measured by how much $$$$$ we have left".

 

Agreed. We already take care of the guy who has his arm cut off, and hospitals do thousands in charity health care every year.

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I'd say you're wrong this time, as polling shows most americans don't want this. :D

 

There's a ton in this thread, from swammi's arrogance at presuming to tell other people what the "right" thing is to do with their money, to cre8in's ignorance of the meaning in the preamble to the constitution. The bottom line though, is that one person's bad planning, bad decisions, or even plain ol' bad luck does not create a mortgage on another. Period. You cannot have a "right" that requires stomping all over the real rights of others for you to claim it - bottom line.

 

:wacko:

 

Do you really honestly beleive that you chipping in few extra bucks a week "creates a mortgage on another". Please.

 

If I am arrogant, and cre8in is ignorant, you're plain pathetic.

 

Americans were originally given the right to bear arms...no restrictions. Since then, its become restricted in a variety of ways.

 

Changes were made to better serve the rights of the majority, not the idiotic minority.

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:wacko:

 

Do you really honestly beleive that you chipping in few extra bucks a week "creates a mortgage on another". Please.

 

If I am arrogant, and cre8in is ignorant, you're plain pathetic.

 

Americans were originally given the right to bear arms...no restrictions. Since then, its become restricted in a variety of ways.

 

Changes were made to better serve the rights of the majority, not the idiotic minority.

 

First of all - who believes it's only going to be a few bucks a week? Are you aware that major entitlement programs have a history of being 6-11 times more expensive than planned?

 

More importantly - I fully get WVs point and support it in full. The government takes way too much already. I'm not willing to go quietly into the night while the dolts in DC march everybody toward the fire - it's economic and moral insanity. There comes a time when restrictions piled upon citizens become too much - it happens in every society - then they revolt.

 

Personally, if this bill passes - I will just drop insurance and pay the penalty. It'll be cheaper than the premiums and if something bad happens I can always pick up a policy later because there will be no cavaet excluding pre-existing conditions. :D

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First of all - who believes it's only going to be a few bucks a week? Are you aware that major entitlement programs have a history of being 6-11 times more expensive than planned?

 

More importantly - I fully get WVs point and support it in full. The government takes way too much already. I'm not willing to go quietly into the night while the dolts in DC march everybody toward the fire - it's economic and moral insanity. There comes a time when restrictions piled upon citizens become too much - it happens in every society - then they revolt.

 

Personally, if this bill passes - I will just drop insurance and pay the penalty. It'll be cheaper than the premiums and if something bad happens I can always pick up a policy later because there will be no cavaet excluding pre-existing conditions. :wacko:

 

And that is what every major company will do, pay a $700 per employee fine instead of $7-8 thousand per for coverage. Then millions

more people are put on the taxpayers. Then comes the 60% tax rate to pay for it. Now try to make your mortgage on

40% of your wages.

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First of all - who believes it's only going to be a few bucks a week? Are you aware that major entitlement programs have a history of being 6-11 times more expensive than planned?

 

More importantly - I fully get WVs point and support it in full. The government takes way too much already. I'm not willing to go quietly into the night while the dolts in DC march everybody toward the fire - it's economic and moral insanity. There comes a time when restrictions piled upon citizens become too much - it happens in every society - then they revolt.

 

Personally, if this bill passes - I will just drop insurance and pay the penalty. It'll be cheaper than the premiums and if something bad happens I can always pick up a policy later because there will be no cavaet excluding pre-existing conditions. :wacko:

 

You can't have it both ways, JN.

 

There's nothing in the constitution that states I should have to pay to have criminals rehabilitated, or worse, left to rot on my dime. There's nothing in it that states my tax dollars should be appropriated to go towards drug rehab programs that don't benefit ME, since I'm not an abuser. There's nothing in it that states my hard-earned cash should be used to help feed a mother with 6 kids who is uneducated and can't find a job to keep enough food on the table. Or support low-income school districts that I don't live in. Or fund space programs that will help generations long after I'm gone.

 

And so on....and so on....and so on.

 

None of this helps me, right here, right now.

 

So under your and WV's thinking, we should kill these programs too, because they are yet more examples of the dolts in DC marching everyone towards the fire?

Edited by i_am_the_swammi
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:wacko:

 

Do you really honestly beleive that you chipping in few extra bucks a week "creates a mortgage on another". Please.

 

If I am arrogant, and cre8in is ignorant, you're plain pathetic.

 

Americans were originally given the right to bear arms...no restrictions. Since then, its become restricted in a variety of ways.

 

Changes were made to better serve the rights of the majority, not the idiotic minority.

If it's only a couple of bucks and you have no issues with it then feel free to pay my share and let me keep the money I make. PM me and I will give you my address and you can send me a check to reimburse me for this small fee that I will be paying. TIA

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I haven't read all of the replies to this thread because I'm pretty sure I know how it's going up to this point:

 

Perch starting sheet

A clubfoothead sighting or two

Ursa being Ursa

a sprinkle of Cre8tiff here to antagonize

a dash of i_am_the_swammi there to fluff Ursa

iRash is still just as fruity and glittery as ever (and i'm not talking about the post, I just wanted to reiterate how ghey he is, that's all. I mean, can't you picture him in his wife beater wearing a pair of tinker bell fairy wings and getting onto the roulette chat where they randomly hook you up with a stranger to talk via webcam. LOL, terrible. His user name is prolly Princess Tinkle pants - momo)

throw in whompers for the token Italian perspective (hey, I'm typing here!)

 

...and then when come to the meat and potatoes, you all are prolly arguing over justification of taxing others to provide healthcare for those who cannot afford it themselves through cost or no affordable health benefits. Let me start by stating that it is absolutely unconstitutional for the US federal government to even begin to draft a bill that would do exactly that. People may argue that it is our government's duty to provide its citizens with universal healthcare but I couldn't disagree more. Our democracy, or should I accurately say, our indirect democracy came to be from the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.

 

The Articles of Confederation (which is our first constitution and ratified in March of 1781), formed the bases of our federal government from the sovereigned states. This was done to unite the independent states against the British because the states (Americans) wanted to be free from the oppression of a tyrannical government/monarchy that was taxing them indescribably and forcing only certain goods could be purchased in the colonies. The AoC specifically spells out and expresses the principle that states retain their sovereignty, freedom, and jurisdiction (legally) rights over everything except those powers delegated to the new Confederation government. When it was decided to revamp the AoC in 1786, the convention, in the end, decided to do a rewrite into the Constitution. Many of the same authors of the AoC wrote the US Constitution. The Constitution is also drawn from The Virginia Plan (mainly for the two chamber congress, and areas for the executive and judiciary branches).

 

To jump right into it, one of the most beautiful and powerful statements every written by man:

 

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

 

Does it get anymore moving to you all as an American? Nowhere in that statement does it set or limit the federal governments power except of what follows that opening line and that has been admended by us. The president is not granted the power to push a bill into law (Article 1). Congress can only have power to make rules for federal property in each state. It cannot, under the constitution for a federal tax for healthcare. In the Bill of Rights, the 10th amendment states that States have full rights for legal power and rights of the people not covered by the United States Constitution (Article 4). The Constitution specifically spells out that neither congress nor the president (executive branch) can force this healthare reform through and if it is not signed into law, the states do not have to honor it.

 

I'm all for people who do not have the means for healthcare to have access to something. The insurance companies are expensive and selective. If you really want to know just how messed up the healthcare system is, ask Chargerz. The battle between insurance companies and doctors is so nasty that more people are leaving Internal Medicine to become specialist. Let's face it, a lot of us make roughly the same as a general/internal medicine doctor at a practice. They do not make uber gobs of money like the sigma that has been with them for decades. The world has changed and doctors spend in upwards of 80k on medical school (with no salaries during those initial 4 years and a salary of between 30k to 50k in residency) then through 3 years of residency to become a general healthcare doctor. With the fees reductions from insurance companies and the expense of malpractice insurance, who would want to be an general healthcare doctor? Imagine dealing with that on your salary. The money is in specialization which means more schooling. Not to mention what medicaid has done to family doctors.

 

If we are to provide affordable healthcare to the people we need to come to the root cause and build from there. The white man, we need to kill him. Just kidding, wanted to make sure you were still paying attention. The federal government needs to regulate the insurance companies. Entities with this much power and influence over the economy within the United States must be federally regulated, just like the Stock Market should have been regulated in the late 1920s or the banking and lending entities of the 2000s. The federal government should offer to pay for medical school for any doctors wishing to become internal medicine practitioners in exchange for working a minimum of five years at a cyber doctors office. These virtual doctors office have no overhead since they are literally sitting on the other side of a webcam and they charge according to what people can afford (in many instances - obviously there is less and less as you get into major surgery). Google it, it's pretty amazing. Have virtual terminals placed into every federal library (in private rooms) so the public can visit them if they do not have access to the internet. Of course that is just a very high overview and sololy from my own opinion and research.

 

I believe that every american has the right to affordable healthcare, just not at the expense of the very fabric of our country. What is being done today is neither right nor to the benefit of America. We need to stop this 'throw money at it and we'll fix it' short sighted mentality our elected officials and most of the public has. We need to start looking long term.

 

Just my :wacko:

 

Disclaimer - No midgets or poop was harmed in the writing of this post.

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You can't have it both ways, JN.

 

There's nothing in the constitution that states I should have to pay to have criminals rehabilitated, or worse, left to rot on my dime. There's nothing in it that states my tax dollars should be appropriated to go towards drug rehab programs that don't benefit ME, since I'm not an abuser. There's nothing in it that states my hard-earned cash should be used to help feed a mother with 6 kids who is uneducated and can't find a job to keep enough food on the table. Or support low-income school districts that I don't live in. Or fund space programs that will help generations long after I'm gone.

 

And so on....and so on....and so on.

 

None of this helps me, right here, right now.

 

So under your and WV's thinking, we should kill these programs too, because they are yet more examples of the dolts in DC marching everyone towards the fire?

 

All of the things you've listed help provide public safety, with the exception of education, and that is primarily paid locally, and many conservatives would dance with joy if the department of education was dissolved. Everything you mentioned is also very small potatoes compared to what Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are trying to ram down our throats. I might notice a dollar or two, but 100's get my attention.

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So under your and WV's thinking, we should kill these programs too, because they are yet more examples of the dolts in DC marching everyone towards the fire?

 

A lot of government programs should die - they're inefficient and do little more than drain the public treasury - us.

 

This healthcare insurance bill is just a hughly bad idea. Hell, even the nutsackians at Newsweek are reporting just how misleading the proponents of this bill are being.

 

Treat yourself to a few hours of House coverage on CSpan and tell me how comfortable you are with this bill. I listen to these clowns every night and am positively perplexed by the lack of real thought and mindless :D on the issue. The dems have so much political capital wrapped up in this one issue they're desperate to pass anything - many have said as much in recent days. :wacko:

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I haven't read all of the replies to this thread because I'm pretty sure I know how it's going up to this point:

 

Perch starting sheet

A clubfoothead sighting or two

Ursa being Ursa

a sprinkle of Cre8tiff here to antagonize

a dash of i_am_the_swammi there to fluff Ursa

iRash is still just as fruity and glittery as ever (and i'm not talking about the post, I just wanted to reiterate how ghey he is, that's all. I mean, can't you picture him in his wife beater wearing a pair of tinker bell fairy wings and getting onto the roulette chat where they randomly hook you up with a stranger to talk via webcam. LOL, terrible. His user name is prolly Princess Tinkle pants - momo)

throw in whompers for the token Italian perspective (hey, I'm typing here!)

 

...and then when come to the meat and potatoes, you all are prolly arguing over justification of taxing others to provide healthcare for those who cannot afford it themselves through cost or no affordable health benefits. Let me start by stating that it is absolutely unconstitutional for the US federal government to even begin to draft a bill that would do exactly that. People may argue that it is our government's duty to provide its citizens with universal healthcare but I couldn't disagree more. Our democracy, or should I accurately say, our indirect democracy came to be from the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.

 

The Articles of Confederation (which is our first constitution and ratified in March of 1781), formed the bases of our federal government from the sovereigned states. This was done to unite the independent states against the British because the states (Americans) wanted to be free from the oppression of a tyrannical government/monarchy that was taxing them indescribably and forcing only certain goods could be purchased in the colonies. The AoC specifically spells out and expresses the principle that states retain their sovereignty, freedom, and jurisdiction (legally) rights over everything except those powers delegated to the new Confederation government. When it was decided to revamp the AoC in 1786, the convention, in the end, decided to do a rewrite into the Constitution. Many of the same authors of the AoC wrote the US Constitution. The Constitution is also drawn from The Virginia Plan (mainly for the two chamber congress, and areas for the executive and judiciary branches).

 

To jump right into it, one of the most beautiful and powerful statements every written by man:

 

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

 

Does it get anymore moving to you all as an American? Nowhere in that statement does it set or limit the federal governments power except of what follows that opening line and that has been admended by us. The president is not granted the power to push a bill into law (Article 1). Congress can only have power to make rules for federal property in each state. It cannot, under the constitution for a federal tax for healthcare. In the Bill of Rights, the 10th amendment states that States have full rights for legal power and rights of the people not covered by the United States Constitution (Article 4). The Constitution specifically spells out that neither congress nor the president (executive branch) can force this healthare reform through and if it is not signed into law, the states do not have to honor it.

 

I'm all for people who do not have the means for healthcare to have access to something. The insurance companies are expensive and selective. If you really want to know just how messed up the healthcare system is, ask Chargerz. The battle between insurance companies and doctors is so nasty that more people are leaving Internal Medicine to become specialist. Let's face it, a lot of us make roughly the same as a general/internal medicine doctor at a practice. They do not make uber gobs of money like the sigma that has been with them for decades. The world has changed and doctors spend in upwards of 80k on medical school (with no salaries during those initial 4 years and a salary of between 30k to 50k in residency) then through 3 years of residency to become a general healthcare doctor. With the fees reductions from insurance companies and the expense of malpractice insurance, who would want to be an general healthcare doctor? Imagine dealing with that on your salary. The money is in specialization which means more schooling. Not to mention what medicaid has done to family doctors.

 

If we are to provide affordable healthcare to the people we need to come to the root cause and build from there. The white man, we need to kill him. Just kidding, wanted to make sure you were still paying attention. The federal government needs to regulate the insurance companies. Entities with this much power and influence over the economy within the United States must be federally regulated, just like the Stock Market should have been regulated in the late 1920s or the banking and lending entities of the 2000s. The federal government should offer to pay for medical school for any doctors wishing to become internal medicine practitioners in exchange for working a minimum of five years at a cyber doctors office. These virtual doctors office have no overhead since they are literally sitting on the other side of a webcam and they charge according to what people can afford (in many instances - obviously there is less and less as you get into major surgery). Google it, it's pretty amazing. Have virtual terminals placed into every federal library (in private rooms) so the public can visit them if they do not have access to the internet. Of course that is just a very high overview and sololy from my own opinion and research.

 

I believe that every american has the right to affordable healthcare, just not at the expense of the very fabric of our country. What is being done today is neither right nor to the benefit of America. We need to stop this 'throw money at it and we'll fix it' short sighted mentality our elected officials and most of the public has. We need to start looking long term.

 

Just my :wacko:

 

Disclaimer - No midgets or poop was harmed in the writing of this post.

 

Great post cliaz! :D

 

We as Americans are better than the "let them die" mentality. That we have a solution the CBO says will actually SAVE federal dollars and reduce the deficit over time is such a no-brainer, it is no wonder the tea-baggers have resorted to misinformation and scare tactics to kill it. All the polls on each of the parts of the bill are overwhelmingly popular with the majority of Americans. It is only the sum of them that has been vilified and lied about in the conservative spin-o-matic.

 

I will admit that this:

 

a sprinkle of Cre8tiff here to antagonize

 

brought a tear to my eye. :D

Edited by cre8tiff
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When someone is dying in the street because they didn't plan on anything ever going wrong with them, is it okay to kick them and laugh?

 

Let me answer that with a question, when you see bums, drug addicts, and prostitutes on the street, is it okay to laugh at them? Do you think they planned on that life style?

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Let me answer that with a question, when you see bums, drug addicts, and prostitutes on the street, is it okay to laugh at them? Do you think they planned on that life style?

 

So the answer is yes?

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:wacko:

 

Do you really honestly beleive that you chipping in few extra bucks a week "creates a mortgage on another". Please.

 

If I am arrogant, and cre8in is ignorant, you're plain pathetic.

 

Americans were originally given the right to bear arms...no restrictions. Since then, its become restricted in a variety of ways.

 

Changes were made to better serve the rights of the majority, not the idiotic minority.

 

When you tell me I'm responsible for making good the bill for person X's food, healthcare, whatever, that is a mortgage on my life. Just how much of another persons life and bad decisions is society responsible for? $1? $1,000,000? How much? Where does it end? And if you really think that fedgov GIVES rights, you need a history lesson.

 

As to your last statement, where to begin? If the majority says they want to take all of swammi's salary, should they be able to do so? If I can get 50% plus one vote to make Smarmi the huddle slave, is that OK with you? You won't answer that question, you'll roll your eyes and ignore it, but how much of you does "society" (read: gov't) have a right to? The minority is precisely WHY the BofR was created. Again, you really need a history lesson. You can roll your eyes and continue on in your arrogance, but you really come off as an ignorant egomaniac with an inferiority complex. :D

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That we have a solution the CBO says will actually SAVE federal dollars and reduce the deficit over time is such a no-brainer, it is no wonder the tea-baggers have resorted to misinformation and scare tactics to kill it.

 

are you at all familiar with how these purported "savings" come about? I'll just cut & paste what I put in another thread, and maybe this time you or someone else defending this crap bill can respond:

 

but even if you take it on faith that it WILL reduce the deficit....it's not going to reduce it by much. and a major point to remember here is that if it DOES cut the deficit, it will be a result primarily of big cuts in medicare spending versus current projections. and the hugh majority of those savings will be going to fund a new entitlement. and then it's that much harder to keep medicare from going bankrupt.

 

think of an analogy....a family's mortgage payment is set to go up $500 per month in the near future, and they decide OK we need to address this. they create a budget and look at it and figure out that this is $300 more than they can afford. so they cut everything they can, they get rid of cable, cell phone plans, they reduce their vacation budget....and they find $300 in savings. then they say hey, we just saved ourselves $300 per month, let's go lease a new car for $295 per month, we still come out ahead! ok. but now where are they going to come up with the money to pay the mortgage?

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First of all - who believes it's only going to be a few bucks a week? Are you aware that major entitlement programs have a history of being 6-11 times more expensive than planned?

 

More importantly - I fully get WVs point and support it in full. The government takes way too much already. I'm not willing to go quietly into the night while the dolts in DC march everybody toward the fire - it's economic and moral insanity. There comes a time when restrictions piled upon citizens become too much - it happens in every society - then they revolt.

 

Personally, if this bill passes - I will just drop insurance and pay the penalty. It'll be cheaper than the premiums and if something bad happens I can always pick up a policy later because there will be no cavaet excluding pre-existing conditions. :D

 

:wacko::D I'm already there! F the insurance industry and their political pawns. I'll spend my money on whatever I want, hookers and blow, fish and chips, RC's and moon pies, whatever. Maybe I'll give it to my grandkids!

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When you tell me I'm responsible for making good the bill for person X's food, healthcare, whatever, that is a mortgage on my life. Just how much of another persons life and bad decisions is society responsible for? $1? $1,000,000? How much? Where does it end?

This is actually a good question and it can be summed up as the difference between freeloaders and the needy through no fault of their own. Let's get freeloaders out of the way first - no-one here supports freeloaders, not liberals, not libertarians, not conservatives, no-one.

 

Where we differ is this whole "decisions" thing. You, Perch and the rest have frequently assaulted the minimum wage but I ask you, if someone is working 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week for minimum wage and already has to pay rent, get groceries and all the rest, how can their inability to pay for the riotously expensive health insurance turn them into freeloaders? Are they to be penalized for their inability to earn more than minimum? And if they rise above minimum, what about the person that replaces them?

 

I don't like the bill particularly. I have to say though, as always, the government has gone into action due to a failure of business. It is always the same - government with all it's inefficiencies jumps in because business f**ks it up but business first has to open the door and give government the opportunity.

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This is actually a good question and it can be summed up as the difference between freeloaders and the needy through no fault of their own. Let's get freeloaders out of the way first - no-one here supports freeloaders, not liberals, not libertarians, not conservatives, no-one.

 

Where we differ is this whole "decisions" thing. You, Perch and the rest have frequently assaulted the minimum wage but I ask you, if someone is working 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week for minimum wage and already has to pay rent, get groceries and all the rest, how can their inability to pay for the riotously expensive health insurance turn them into freeloaders? Are they to be penalized for their inability to earn more than minimum? And if they rise above minimum, what about the person that replaces them?

 

I don't like the bill particularly. I have to say though, as always, the government has gone into action due to a failure of business. It is always the same - government with all it's inefficiencies jumps in because business f**ks it up but business first has to open the door and give government the opportunity.

 

You can't put this one on business, ursa. The only reason businesses foot this bill is because fedgov neglected to undo what was supposed to be a temporary situation during WWII. To whit, the fact that businesses get a deduction/credit for HC costs while individuals don't. Gov't is the biggest reason for this cost problem, between the tax treatment and the inability across state lines. Even after this, the answer is more gov't??? :wacko:

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I have to say though, as always, the government has gone into action due to a failure of business.

 

you've got to be kidding. this is an industry where the government already does half the spending, and the more they've gotten involved the more costs have skyrocketed. it's already one of the most socialized, regulated indistries out there. the employer tax exclusion, which is directly responsible for so much of the insulation from costs, and the fact that insurance is so directly tied to employment, is obviously a government policy. laying the blame for health care's woes on the free market is absurd. it's even more absurd to suggest that the government can come in and fix it :wacko:

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