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Rice vs. McGahee


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If Rice takes over the starting spot, I could see him putting up solid RB2 numbers.

:wacko:

http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/articles...mcgahee_610.txt

 

I doubt it.

 

With McClain getting the GL carries, and Rice probably splitting 65/35 with Mcgahee, I think it makes the whole Ravens backfield RB3 status, at best. The league has way too many better options at RB to make any of these momos RB2s.

Edited by i_am_the_swammi
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Cam Cameron has historically run a system where he features one RB. I think the Ravens will run a lot to protect Flacco and to protect a defense which will be without Rex Ryan (considered to be one of the top defensive innovators in the NFL) and under guidance of a DC that is fairly new to the system they've been running. This is a team that has to run the ball a lot to compete. Willis McGahee is a player who has generally played a lot smaller than his physical stature. Having watched quite a few of his games over the years I've noticed he has frequently taken himself out of games for extended breathers and watery eyes. Rice on the other hand has played a lot bigger than his size. In 2 years as a starter in college he carried the ball 715 times for 3800 yds and 44 td's. Last season it wouldn't have made sense for Baltimore to transition to Rice I'm sure they first wanted to see what he could do against NFL competition and the commitment from management to McGahee was so huge (and stills is) they needed to cash in on their investment. I bet they'd cut McGahee but 10 million in dead cap space is way too much egg on anyone's face. McGahee is neither Jim Harbaugh's nor Cam Cameron's guy and will probably go down as the worst high profile FA aquisitionin franchise history. The first 2 picks of Harbaughs head coaching career with Baltimore were Flacco and Rice. This tells me Rice will get every chance to start and excel. He put on some muscle because he knows the competition at this level is for real. I'm done betting against small backs just because they're small. Rice to me is a guy who will come at a pretty good value and could post really good numbers IMO :wacko:

Edited by Big Ernie McCracken
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I think Rice is the one to own here. He's been taking first team snaps with Willis running with the second stringers. And from Willis has said, he's fine with being the #2. McClain might continue to get goal-line carries, but for the amount this team will run I think Rice has very good RB2 upside.

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Will you guys never learn?

 

link to McGahee's salary info

 

3/8/2007: Signed a seven-year, $40.12 million contract.

 

The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus and a $6.5 million roster bonus in the second year.

 

2009: $620,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus),

2010: $3.6 million,

2011: $6 million,

2012: $6.5 million,

2013: $7.2 million,

2014: Free Agent.

 

Cap charges:

 

$4.87 million (2009),

$6.35 million (2010),

$8.75 million (2011),

$9.25 million (2012),

$7.5 million (2013)

 

********************************************************************

***

 

So let's do some math:

 

$15M guaranteed / 7 years = $2.14M/yr prorated per CBA for salary cap purposes.

 

5 yrs remaining X $2.14M/yr = $10.71M owed in guaranteed money against the cap.

 

But - it is after June 1st, so the guaranteed money can be split between this year & next.

 

$10.71M / 2 yrs = $5.36M per year

 

Therefore, with his current cap charges, if BAL cut him before final rosters are set,

 

in 2009 BAL would still have $4.87M - $5.36M = -$490,000 hit against the cap difference and,

in 2010 BAL would save $6.35M - $5.36M = $1M savings against the cap.

 

If BAL keeps him on the roster it would be charged $4.87M against the cap in 2009, and if they cut him after June 1st 2010 would save $1.09M in 2010 and $4.47M in 2011.

 

*******************************************

 

That means McGahee is completely expendable in 2009 - since he is essentially close to a wash with his 2009/2010 cap hits if cut before final rosters this year, and he is absolutely history in 2010 since BAL would experience significant cap savings in both 2009 and 2010.

 

I'd say McGahee's ability to stay in BAL this year depends exactly upon whether Rice and/or Peerman can show that they can handle the load with McClain as an emergency backup (since he's already been moved to FB full time). If Peerman looks like he can play - and the coaching staff obviously loves Rice - and both are healthy, there is no reason to keep McGahee on the roster this year, hinder the development of Peerman, and be a cancer when his playing time is cut way, way down. We already know that BAL has sickened of McGahee's act.

 

Watch Peeman closely in the preseason. His performance and health will dictate a tremendous amount whether McGahee is even on the roster come week 1. If McGahee is still around this year, either there will be an injury or Peerman won't have lived up to his opportunity. Either way, he would be a waste of a pick in a redraft and he would be a sure taxi squad stash in a dynasty league for next year. If McGahee is gone this year, Rice is absolutely in line to be a solid RB2 with upside - and would figure to be a very decent RB3 with upside even if McGahee sticks, and Peerman would be a sneaky late round pick who might be a factor, especially as the season goes on, if McGahee is cut .

Edited by Bronco Billy
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If the cap hit is pretty much the same if he's released this year or next, but he only costs the team $2.1mil in real money, well, that seems pretty cheap for a RB like him. I'd think he'd be on the team this year regardless of what Peerman does, just as insurance since they must feel that they're a playoff caliber team, yeah?

 

Normally I'd agree with that, but BAL is distinctively unhappy with McGahee. Hi production hasn't been what they expected, and he blamed Harbaugh's workout regiment for both his lack of production and his injury. McGahee has stated publicly that he plays only for himself, and also remember that BAL was packaging McGahee with Heap in trying to lure Boldin to BAL.

 

BAL could very well figure McGahee isn't worth keeping on the team if they have enough capability at the position. He has certainly worn out his welcome in BAL.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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If the cap hit wasn't $10 million+ McGahee would probably be cut. I like Ray Rice this year.

 

They should probably pay him and deactivate him the whole year(if they can) because his presence hurts the team in my opinion.

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  • 3 weeks later...

FWIW:

 

The Competition: Running Backs

Ray Rice established himself early in the offseason. Can Willis rebound? by Mike Duffy

Jul 1, 2009, 5:37PM Font Size:

Heading into the first practice of training camp, BaltimoreRavens.com will offer previews of those positions that feature a tough competition, focusing on who will be fighting for playing time. Today, the running backs take the spotlight.

 

 

The Ravens employed a “three-headed monster” so well last year that they ended the season as the NFL’s fourth-ranked rushing attack.

 

Perhaps most surprisingly, Le’Ron McClain, all 260 pounds (at least) of him, led the way with 232 carries for 902 yards and 10 touchdowns. Willis McGahee turned in 170 touches for 671 yards and seven scores. And then there was Ray Rice coming up the rear with 107 attempts for 454 yards.

 

That group will likely see a shakeup in 2009.

 

The biggest question is McGahee’s status. A former Pro Bowler, McGahee battled an assortment of injuries throughout the season that kept him from being full strength. There were rumors that he was in head coach John Harbaugh’s doghouse, even though both sides continually maintained that things were fine.

 

Whatever the case, McGahee primarily worked with the second team during Organized Team Activities (OTAs), at least during the portions of practice open to the media, leaving Rice with the first-string nod.

 

For his part, McGahee doesn’t seem worried about what unit he is on.

 

"It wouldn't be right," McGahee told reporters last month. "I don't mind [practicing with the second team]. Work is work. That's either with the first, second or third."

 

 

 

McGahee has been a regular at the voluntary minicamps, however, trying to recover from offseason arthroscopic knee surgery and ankle surgery, not to mention rebound from a rough showing in 2008.

 

"Nobody expected me to get drafted in the first round. Nobody expected me to come back and play football [after a knee injury in college]," he said. "It doesn't bother me. I know what I can do. I know I can turn the light switch on when I need to. I'm ready to turn it on."

 

Here is a breakdown at how the current running back group stacks up based on last year’s performance:

 

 

Le’Ron McClain

 

 

2008: When McGahee came into training camp out of shape and with a knee issue, offensive coordinator Cam Cameron began to experiment with the burly McClain at halfback. Showing deceptively nimble moves, McClain became one of the most feared runners in the NFL. Not many people wanted to hit the 2007 draft pick, and he proved to be a reliable chain-mover that occasionally broke a big one late in games.

 

Forecast: McClain should be a fixture on the Ravens’ roster for years to come. But, signs are pointing to him seeing less carries this year than last. Baltimore did not retain fullback Lorenzo Neal, meaning that McClain could return to his original role. Don’t think that he will be a full-time fullback, though. He will still get his reps, but just not as the featured back.

 

Willis McGahee

 

 

2008: There was a knee injury in training camp, an eye injury early in the season, an ankle problem and a late-year concussion. McGahee simply wasn’t himself in 2008. There were three 100-yard performances, but too many times when he wasn’t a prominent part of the game plan because of injury or poor practices.

 

Forecast: McGahee should make the roster by all accounts. The Ravens would take nearly an $11 million cap hit if he is released due to bonuses that would accelerate. But based on a football standpoint, McGahee is still the versatile weapon he showed in 2007, when he boasted a career-high 1,483 total yards. The former Buffalo Bill needs to come into training camp healthy so he can revert to form.

 

 

Ray Rice

 

 

2008: Rice was a pleasant surprise for Ravens fans, as he came through as a stellar third-down back. Rice’s 454 rushing yards were supplemented by 33 catches for 273 yards. The second-round draft pick did a solid job of picking up blitzes, too. Rice was sidelined for the final three contests of the season with a knee injury.

 

Forecast: The jury is still out on if Rice will hold on to the starting spot throughout training camp, but he’ll probably take the first carry. Rice has said that he wants to show he can be an every-down back, so he bulked up noticeably through his upper body to take more of a pounding. The charismatic young Raven looked very quick in OTAs, and he explained that he felt much better this offseason than his first one.

 

Jalen Parmele

 

 

2008: A former draft pick of Cameron’s when he was with the Miami Dolphins, Parmele did not join the Ravens until the final three weeks of the season. The Toledo product only played in one game, notching two attempts for 27 yards.

 

Forecast: It’s evident that the Ravens like Parmele’s potential. He surpassed 1,000 yards twice in college, and was being tried at punt returner for the Dolphins. With the Ravens, Parmele will have to stand out on special teams, which he can do because of his 5-foot-11, 220-pound size. If not, Parmele is a prime candidate for the practice squad.

 

Matt Lawrence

 

 

2008: Lawrence spent most of the 2008 campaign on Baltimore’s practice squad. He was signed by the Chicago Bears as a rookie free agent in 2007 and also had a stint with the Seattle Seahawks.

 

Forecast: It is not going to be easy for Lawrence to make the 53-man active roster. He is basically competing with Parmele and sixth-round draft pick Cerdic Peerman to provide depth for Rice and McGahee. He will have to make a few eye-opening plays during the preseason and show he can contribute on special teams

 

Rookie Cedric Peerman

 

 

2008: The Virginia product was named to the All-Atlantic Coast Conference honorable mention squad after leading the team with a career-high 774 yards on 153 carries and seven touchdowns as a senior. He also turned in 44 receptions for 193 yards and returned kickoffs

 

Forecast: The Ravens have not kept their final draft selections in the past few years, but Peerman, who ran the fastest 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine at his position (4.45 seconds), could be the exception. He can return kicks, and is the quick scat-back that is a contrast to the styles of McGahee, McClain and even Rice. Peerman’s high character would be a good addition to the locker room, as well. It would be a shock to see him not in a Ravens uniform – whether practice squad or active – in 2009.

 

Rookie Jason Cook

 

 

2008: Serving as a team captain at Ole Miss with Ravens first-rounder Michael Oher his senior season, Cook saw action in all 13 games (7 starts), totaling 7 receptions for 47 yards and one touchdown.

 

Forecast: Cook has a great opportunity to make the team as an undrafted free agent because Neal is not on the open market after signing with the Oakland Raiders. At 6-feet, 235 pounds, Cook, who has said that he loves contact, is built in the classic fullback style, so he could be the lead blocker in the Ravens’ “Jumbo” package with McClain in the backfield. Cook is another high-character guy, as well, something Baltimore always covets.

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Last year roto put out an article about McGahee being cut before the season's end. I am not putting much stock into anything that is written about the Balt backfield this season. Rice should be the man, but I am not counting on it yet. RB3 for whoever is getting the majority of the work.

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I don't think Rice has the talent or size to be an every down type of back. If they try to give him tons of carries, I think they will come away disappointed. Decent third down back, but I think that is pretty much as good as it can get for him.

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I don't think Rice has the talent or size to be an every down type of back. If they try to give him tons of carries, I think they will come away disappointed. Decent third down back, but I think that is pretty much as good as it can get for him.

 

:wacko:

 

Neither did Slaton, or Dunn, or about any other of the guys that were always considered too small to be every down backs. Pass him up so guys like me can pick him up...

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:wacko:

 

Neither did Slaton, or Dunn, or about any other of the guys that were always considered too small to be every down backs. Pass him up so guys like me can pick him up...

Dunn and Slaton are much quicker players than Rice. Kind of apples to oranges here.

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Dunn and Slaton are much quicker players than Rice. Kind of apples to oranges here.

Oh so now he is slow too? Cmon dude... Its kind of like your McFadden arguement last year... No one was gonna win it but you. Howd that work for you?

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Dunn and Slaton are much quicker players than Rice. Kind of apples to oranges here.

 

:wacko:

 

Rice 2008 combine

 

40 4.47s

20 2.52s

10 1.51s

Shuttle 4.20s (3rd fastest in 2008 RB class)

Cone 6.65s (Fastest in 2008 RB class)

 

Slaton 2008 combine

 

40 4.49s

20 2.63s

10 1.60s

Shuttle Did not run

Cone Did not run

 

...oops

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:wacko:

 

Rice 2008 combine

 

40 4.47s

20 2.52s

10 1.51s

Shuttle 4.20s (3rd fastest in 2008 RB class)

Cone 6.65s (Fastest in 2008 RB class)

 

Slaton 2008 combine

 

40 4.49s

20 2.63s

10 1.60s

Shuttle Did not run

Cone Did not run

 

...oops

:D

 

Not sure what kind of apples he eats...

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Watch them play. Watch the three of them play. Which one plays fastest? Which one plays slowest? That is all I'm saying. Did you really just regurgitate combine numbers to compare NFL players?

 

I can see a comparison of Rice to Slaton, but certainly not Dunn. Dunn is one of the most elusive players to ever play in the NFL. Rice is not. Rice is an undersized guy that tries to play bigger. Dunn and Slaton play as small as they can. You can't tell me that you have watched the three of these guys play and concluded that they run with similar styles.

 

Watch DMac play with healthy feet for a few games before you light him up too much.

Edited by Seahawks21
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Watch them play. Watch the three of them play. Which one plays fastest? Which one plays slowest? That is all I'm saying. Did you really just regurgitate combine numbers to compare NFL players?

 

I have watched them play. Rice is the superior RB of the three. He brings to the table what the other two do, but he also adds a power running game between the tackles.

 

Sounds to me like you haven't seen much of Rice at all...

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I've seen Rice play plenty. I was watching him a lot in college because I thought the Seahawks might have added a RB through the draft last year. I watched him a lot last year because I had both him and McGahee on my team. Nice player, just doesn't have a ton of upside. How many times did he get banged up last year trying to be tough and run inside?

 

Did you really just say Rice is superior to Warrick Dunn? I might kind of almost give you that argument as of this very second, but wow.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Are we all a little premature to write off McGahee?? Or is he just one of those guys that is ALWAYS going to be banged up? He always struck me as a guy with some innate ability.

 

IMO, McGahee is just about done. He'll provide a CoP option but I think Rice is the main man this year and McClain will continue with his vulturing role along with being Rice's lead hole-maker. Rice is being had at a very nice value.

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