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Poker Question


keggerz
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was playing in a Multi Table Tourney Online

 

I had around 25K in chips

 

blinds were 150/300

 

I am 2 from the button

 

 

there are 2 guys at my table with bigger stacks then me one with 35k one with almost 50k

 

i get dealt BULLETS

 

when it gets to me there are 5 people that have called the $300 blinds when it gets to me...one is the stack that has 35K(50k guy folded)....

 

my turn to bet i bet $1200

 

everyone folds except 35K guy who calls me....

 

Flop comes:

Js/9s/2d

 

neither of my aces are spades....

 

the pot is like 2500....

 

I bet the pot $2500

 

he comes over top of me with a raise to $5k :D ( i scratch my head and say nah no way he has jacks...watched him bluff about 3 of the last 5 hands since i had been moved to that table)

 

I PUSH ALL IN

 

he turns over J/9 OS Neither is a SPADE :D

 

the turn and river were blanks for both of us...

 

so who the hell else plays j/9 os for $1200 :D

 

i normally wouldnt have been so aggressive but there was no way i put him on J/9

 

yeah i knew there was a chance he had a set of jacks and I was going to be ok with that had i lost to a set...but darn

Edited by keggerz
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When you are 1st or 2nd in chips you can play more aggressive ... you also have to change gears to keep your opponents guessing.

 

Was he in one of the blinds? You were in middle to late position? He could have had you bidding hard because of your position in an attempt to steal the blinds. How many players at the table? How many folded before him?

Edited by Grits and Shins
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yeah i have seen many get cracked but the bigger question is who plays

 

Jack Frigin 9 OS?

 

1285934[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

If I have a hugh stack...maybe. 10-J is one my favorite hands. In fact, I got busted out of the WPT satellite with it against my pocket 8's. :D

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Online poker is insane. it is almost impossible to get people to lay anything down. Almost the exact situation happens to be last on Sunday. I am UTG+2. Guy in front of me goes all in. I want to isolate me and him, so even though I have him covered, I move all of my chips in. BB calls my bet which is 20XBB with J9 suited. He catches a J and 9 to beat me.

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Online poker is insane.  it is almost impossible to get people to lay anything down.  Almost the exact situation happens to be last on Sunday.  I am UTG+2.  Guy in front of me goes all in.  I want to isolate me and him, so even though I have him covered, I move all of my chips in.  BB calls my bet which is 20XBB with J9 suited.  He catches a J and 9 to beat me.

 

1285948[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

Additionally many over-play those high pairs

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was playing in a Multi Table Tourney Online

 

I had around 25K in chips

 

blinds were 150/300

 

I am 2 from the button

there are 2 guys at my table with bigger stacks then me one with 35k one with almost 50k

 

i get dealt BULLETS

 

when it gets to me there are 5 people that have called the $300 blinds when it gets to me...one is the  stack that has 35K(50k guy folded)....

 

my turn to bet i bet $1200

 

everyone folds except 35K guy who calls me....

 

Flop comes:

Js/9s/2d

 

neither of my aces are spades....

 

the pot is like 2500....

 

I bet the pot $2500

 

he comes over top of me with a raise to $5k  :D ( i scratch my head and say nah no way he has jacks...watched him bluff about 3 of the last 5 hands since i had been moved to that table)

 

I PUSH ALL IN

 

he turns over J/9 OS Neither is a SPADE  :D

 

the turn and river were blanks for both of us...

 

so who the hell else plays j/9 os for $1200 :D

 

i normally wouldnt have been so aggressive but there was no way i put him on J/9

 

yeah i knew there was a chance he had a set of jacks and I was going to be ok with that had i lost to a set...but darn

 

1285922[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I'm curious what the buyin for this was. If you are 2 from the button and have 5 callers already + 1 fold, 1.) you're playing an 11 man table; 2.) you're playing against some loose players who think they can get away with limping in.

 

Knowing the buyin would help determine how I would play simply because it would give me some idea as to the crap hands people are going to see flops with.

 

In a low buy-in table, I would have pushed harder pre-flop with the goal of just buying the ~$2000 thats on the table so far. You have to know that people are going to play crap and many people saw Chan win with J9, Doyle win with 10-2, etc.

 

In a higher buy-in table, you could have probably pushed a little harder pre-flop but you definitely didn't want to knock everyone out. You want to play your aces against high suited connectors or a smaller pp, etc.

 

Post flop, you have to be ready to lay it down. I think you were a little reckless with the all-in. You didn't have to put him on jacks.

 

Again, depending on the level of play, you could put him on a lot of hands other than Jacks.

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If I follow this hand - when it got back to the big stack, there was $3,150 in the pot - 5 limpers at $300 each, plus $450 in blinds, plus your $1200. So to call, he was being asked to put up another $850 to participate in a $4,000 pot - or, put another way, he was getting close to 5 to 1 to call, with implied pot odds that were considerably higher. Still a loose call, but given that he had a big stack, and that it was a tournament rather than a ring game, I don't think it was as bad a play as you're making it out to be.

 

As pointed out by another poster above, your pre-flop raise may have been too small. Standard pre-flop raise is to between 3x and 4x the big blind, but you gotta' bump that up if there are limpers in ahead of you. I've seen it written that the standard pre-flop raise is 3.5x the big blind plus 1x the big blind for every limper in ahead of you - a little too mechanical for my tastes, but I do think raising it to $1200 was too light here.

 

I'm confused as to why the pot was only $2500 after the flop - if you and he each put in 1200, and there were another 4 limpers who folded, plus the blinds who also folded... :D

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Not sure who was behind you.

 

But I probably would have raised more with 5 callers. Although your raise was 4x the big blind, you need a higher than normal raise to push 'em out. Your looking at a pretty big pot. (1950 I think) I don't want anyone to call my raise.

 

I would have bet at least 2k. Might not have changed the outcome.

 

Post-flop? I don't know. I'd have been worried about a set, but I don't know if I could get away from those aces. Judgment call.

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Well, I'm curious what the buyin for this was.  If you are 2 from the button and have 5 callers already + 1 fold, 1.)  you're playing an 11 man table; 2.)  you're playing against some loose players who think they can get away with limping in.

 

Knowing the buyin would help determine how I would play simply because it would give me some idea as to the crap hands people are going to see flops with.

 

In a low buy-in table, I would have pushed harder pre-flop with the goal of just buying the ~$2000 thats on the table so far.  You have to know that people are going to play crap and many people saw Chan win with J9, Doyle win with 10-2, etc.

 

In a higher buy-in table, you could have probably pushed a little harder pre-flop but you definitely didn't want to knock everyone out.  You want to play your aces against high suited connectors or a smaller pp, etc. 

 

Post flop, you have to be ready to lay it down.  I think you were a little reckless with the all-in.  You didn't have to put him on jacks. 

 

Again, depending on the level of play, you could put him on a lot of hands other than Jacks.

 

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no it was a 10 man table maybe i must have only been one seat from the button then...

 

buyin shouldnt matter but i guess it does at times matter...for the most part people were playing good cards with the insane bluff and show or lose every now and then

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If I follow this hand - when it got back to the big stack, there was $3,150 in the pot - 5 limpers at $300 each, plus $450 in blinds, plus your $1200.  So to call, he was being asked to put up another $850 to participate in a $4,000 pot - or, put another way, he was getting close to 5 to 1 to call, with implied pot odds that were considerably higher.  Still a loose call, but given that he had a big stack, and that it was a tournament rather than a ring game, I don't think it was as bad a play as you're making it out to be.

 

As pointed out by another poster above, your pre-flop raise may have been too small.  Standard pre-flop raise is to between 3x and 4x the big blind, but you gotta' bump that up if there are limpers in ahead of you.  I've seen it written that the standard pre-flop raise is 3.5x the big blind plus 1x the big blind for every limper in ahead of you - a little too mechanical for my tastes, but I do think raising it to $1200 was too light here.

 

I'm confused as to why the pot was only $2500 after the flop - if you and he each put in 1200, and there were another 4 limpers who folded, plus the blinds who also folded... :D

 

1286007[/snapback]

 

 

 

just my bad memory or bad math is all :doah:

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yeah i have seen many get cracked but the bigger question is who plays

 

Jack Frigin 9 OS?

 

1285934[/snapback]

 

 

 

You know who plays J9off? Tourists and Donkeys. They're both welcome at my table any night of the week :D

 

If you play J9o, then you are truly a "jackoff"

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when it gets to me there are 5 people that have called the $300 blinds when it gets to me...one is the stack that has 35K(50k guy folded)....

 

my turn to bet i bet $1200

 

1285922[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Didn't read the whole thread yet; Your bet was way too small... $1200 into a pot of $1500 + the blinds.... he called becaue he was getting more than 2-1 on his money (1200 to win ~ 3100) + the implied odds of taking your whole stack.

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havent read any of the responses yet, but I will after posting this.

 

450 in for blinds

1500 from callers thus far.

1200 total from you.

 

that puts 3150 in the pot with 900 to call, giving him 3.5 to 1 on his money. I'd rather get at least 4 to 1 with suited, middle one-gappers, but, maybe he figured you for 7's or 8's and thought maybe he had overcards as well.

 

yes, it was a bad pot odds call, but I guess he figured with the stack size he had, it was okay to take a shot at a flop and go for it.

 

Not justifying the call as it was mathematically incorrect in my opinion, but I can understand his logic as it was close to pot odds to make a call with j9 suited, depending on what he ahd seen you play.

 

 

That said, with so many callers in already, why not raise more than the 1200 to go? There is already 2000 in the pot. In that situation, with that many callers, you probably should make it about the size of the pot to go so no one has proper odds to call with anything.

 

Edit - overlooked you said they were OS, that makes the call a bit worse, but I see my comments mirrored much of what was alrady said.

Edited by Big Country
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Didn't read the whole thread yet;  Your bet was way too small... $1200 into a pot of $1500 + the blinds.... he called becaue he was getting more than 2-1 on his money (1200 to win ~ 3100) + the implied odds of taking your whole stack.

 

1286081[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

EnD got it right... he already limped so he was getting even better odds to make the call... ~900 into a 3100 pot.

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was playing in a Multi Table Tourney Online

 

I had around 25K in chips

 

blinds were 150/300

 

I am 2 from the button

there are 2 guys at my table with bigger stacks then me one with 35k one with almost 50k

 

i get dealt BULLETS

 

when it gets to me there are 5 people that have called the $300 blinds when it gets to me...one is the  stack that has 35K(50k guy folded)....

 

my turn to bet i bet $1200

 

everyone folds except 35K guy who calls me....

 

Flop comes:

Js/9s/2d

 

neither of my aces are spades....

 

the pot is like 2500....

 

I bet the pot $2500

 

he comes over top of me with a raise to $5k  :D ( i scratch my head and say nah no way he has jacks...watched him bluff about 3 of the last 5 hands since i had been moved to that table)

 

I PUSH ALL IN

 

he turns over J/9 OS Neither is a SPADE  :D

 

the turn and river were blanks for both of us...

 

so who the hell else plays j/9 os for $1200 :D

 

i normally wouldnt have been so aggressive but there was no way i put him on J/9

 

yeah i knew there was a chance he had a set of jacks and I was going to be ok with that had i lost to a set...but darn

1285922[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

I know hindsight is 20/20, but here's my $.02. I will almost NEVER go all in post-flop with a pair. I don't care if they're bullets, it's still only one pair. It's not a very strong hand, once the flop hits.

 

I would have called his bet, and see what happened on the turn. The main problem obviously was pushing all in with a pair. I would strongly advice against that, as you WILL lose money in the longrun playing like that. When someone raises 5K you have to believe that he has a hand. Especially if you've been playing with him at a table. By the time the blinds are 150/300 you should have some sense about how he plays, and vary your play accordingly.

 

Rockets are great, but like I said, all it is really is a pair, which won't win the pot if it doesn't improve a lot of time.

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I would have called his bet, and see what happened on the turn. The main problem obviously was pushing all in with a pair. I would strongly advice against that, as you WILL lose money in the longrun playing like that. When someone raises 5K you have to believe that he has a hand. Especially if you've been playing with him at a table. By the time the blinds are 150/300 you should have some sense about how he plays, and vary your play accordingly.

 

Rockets are great, but like I said, all it is really is a pair, which won't win the pot if it doesn't improve a lot of time.

 

1286099[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Not disagreeing with you at all, but in Keg's defense I believe he said he had only just been moved to that table approximately 5 hands earlier, so he didn't have a read on the other guy at all (in fact I think he says the guy had bluffed a couple times already within those 5 hands).

Edited by Easy n Dirty
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I know hindsight is 20/20, but here's my $.02. I will almost NEVER go all in post-flop with a pair. I don't care if they're bullets, it's still only one pair. It's not a very strong hand, once the flop hits.

 

I would have called his bet, and see what happened on the turn. The main problem obviously was pushing all in with a pair. I would strongly advice against that, as you WILL lose money in the longrun playing like that. When someone raises 5K you have to believe that he has a hand. Especially if you've been playing with him at a table. By the time the blinds are 150/300 you should have some sense about how he plays, and vary your play accordingly.

 

Rockets are great, but like I said, all it is really is a pair, which won't win the pot if it doesn't improve a lot of time.

 

1286099[/snapback]

 

 

 

i didnt go all in pre flop

 

i had been moved to the table something like 5 hands prior...had seen that same guy buy a few pots and show shucks cards and seen him bet a few hard to win being a/x os with the high card ...

 

so with how i saw him play when he came over the top on me i decided i was going WAY over the top on him and his BS play he had been using...unfortunately for me he had hit the 2 pair this time...put i still had what 8 outs guess that wasnt so good after all

 

live and learn

Edited by keggerz
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Not disagreeing with you at all, but in Keg's defense I believe he said he had only just been moved to that table approximately 5 hands earlier, so he didn't have a read on the other guy at all (in fact I think he says the guy had bluffed a couple times already within those 5 hands).

 

1286110[/snapback]

 

 

 

correct

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