Donutrun Jellies Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Montana. No one was as focused and cool under pressure. He wasn't the most talented but I think the best. 1396337[/snapback] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyr0802 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 No Peyton Manning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisville lip Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Or Elway was following Reeves' booring game plan which led them to be down almost all the time and Reeves was forced to turn Elway loose in the 4th. No doubt Montana was great, and I'm not old enough to have watched Unitas, but no QB did more with less talent around him than Elway! 1396347[/snapback] On the assumption that you know a lot about Elway, is it my imagination that he was regularly booed at home during the early 90s? In the back of my mind, I picture him throwing an interception--againt the Jets, I think--and getting booed unmercifully. It also seems to me that there was overt hostility in Denver towards Elway in the early 90s. Am I mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Roger the Dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoMan Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Or Elway was following Reeves' booring game plan which led them to be down almost all the time and Reeves was forced to turn Elway loose in the 4th. No doubt Montana was great, and I'm not old enough to have watched Unitas, but no QB did more with less talent around him than Elway! 1396347[/snapback] You are sooo right. Selective memory on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaticRay Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 3 for different eras: Otto Graham 1946-1955 I believe he won 8 Championships John Unitas Joe Montana Those are the three best each from different eras. New one to consider: Brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 On the assumption that you know a lot about Elway, is it my imagination that he was regularly booed at home during the early 90s? In the back of my mind, I picture him throwing an interception--againt the Jets, I think--and getting booed unmercifully. It also seems to me that there was overt hostility in Denver towards Elway in the early 90s. Am I mistaken? 1397301[/snapback] umm, yes. by the early 90s, elway had basically been canonized in denver. what you're saying may have been somewhat true his first couple years, in the early/mid 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Montana gets my vote for sure. This coming from a Steeler fan. Marino is number two. If Danny Boy only would have won a SB, he'd maybe move to #1. They were all great QBs and all desrve our Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest THEbigred Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 While Montana (whom I voted for) is probably the 'best' QB of all-time.... Slingin' Sammy Baugh was the 'greatest' QB of them all! 1396399[/snapback] Wow there are a few others people on these boards that recall football was played before 1970....cool. There's Unitas, Montana, and Baugh....then the rest. The why cannot be measured in stats. Stats are for losers. And TEAMS win titles, not just one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 No Peyton Manning? 1397269[/snapback] Same reason I didn't put Brett Farve; both are still playing (possibly not Farve) and despite both will most definitely make the Hall of Fame at a later date, I kept strict standards for only current Hall of Fame members. Plus, as I listed earlier, there are several other QB's who could make the list but I couldn't put all of them, only a select few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Or Elway was following Reeves' booring game plan which led them to be down almost all the time and Reeves was forced to turn Elway loose in the 4th. No doubt Montana was great, and I'm not old enough to have watched Unitas, but no QB did more with less talent around him than Elway! 1396347[/snapback] Bingo and a half! This is exactly what happened with Elway in the Reeves years. Ya really can't take anything away from Montana - he was just one cool guy under pressure. Still, I can't help but wonder how many rings Elway would have won if surrounded by that kind of talent. That's pure speculation of course, but Elway did win more games than any other QB, many in fantastic fashion - ask Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 Still, I can't help but wonder how many rings Elway would have won if surrounded by that kind of talent. Or Dan Marino for that matter. The QB still plays a major part in it though... and it's all simply speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleW64 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Wait a minute... no brothers on the list? What about Randall Cunningham? Joe Gilliam? Doug Williams? Kordell Stewart? :ducksasthe race card flies through the air: Gotta go with Baugh, Unitas and then Montana. As a homer, Staubach will always be one of my favorites but not the best of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I voted for Elway - I agree with a previous poster that he did more with less than Montana. 1396633[/snapback] early on sf didn't have endless offensive talent, and people forget what kind of qb he was in kc after sf. Montana was a fantastic leader with intangibles out the wazoo, but was also in the best possible situation to succeed. Walsh's WCO was years ahead of opposing defensive coordinators. The Niners teams of '82, '84, and '87-'91 would've probably made the playoffs on defense alone. Joe is one of the greatest ever, but if he and Steve Young had switched places in history, we'd be talking about #8 as the greatest of all time. 1396659[/snapback] actually i think that if joe had those offenses that young had he would have had more rings. the system was a work in progress when joe replaced deberg... the system was at it's peak in the young year (and young had to learn to play from the pocket). young made a lot of mistakes in those nfc champ games vs dallas in the 90's (mistakes i don't think joe makes). Bingo and a half! This is exactly what happened with Elway in the Reeves years. Ya really can't take anything away from Montana - he was just one cool guy under pressure. Still, I can't help but wonder how many rings Elway would have won if surrounded by that kind of talent. That's pure speculation of course, but Elway did win more games than any other QB, many in fantastic fashion - ask Marty. 1397880[/snapback] i always thought the only deficiancy den had was at rb. i think elway is fantastic and is my #2, but believe he had more talent at wr for the duration of his tenure than joe. joe won 2 sb's before he got rice..... elway couldn't win until they had a DOMINANT rb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 i think elway is fantastic and is my #2, but believe he had more talent at wr for the duration of his tenure than joe. 1397920[/snapback] ok i was with you up until this. 1981 was montana's first full year as a starter. he was throwing to dwight clark (who went to the pro bowl that year), and freddie solomon, who had 969 yards and 9 TDs. in 1982 thru 84, solomon and clark again, with clark in the pro bowl again in 82, and renaldo nehemiah thrown in as an interesting weapon as well. in 1985, he had rice and clark. starting in 1987, he had john taylor. so for 6 seasons from 82 until 87, he had dwight clark, who went to two pro bowls during that time. for 6 more seasons, from 85 until 90, he had the greatest WR of all time, rice, who of course went to the pro bowl every year for 4 seasons, 87-90, he had john taylor, who went to two pro bowls now i don't think elway EVER had a SINGLE pro bowl WR on his team, throughout his entire 16 year career. rod smith didnt make the pro bowl until 2000, after elways was gone. while montana was throwing to dwight clark, jerry rice, and john taylor...elway was throwing to steve watson, vance johnson, and ricky nattiel. not total scrubs, but not even CLOSE to the talent montana was working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 early on sf didn't have endless offensive talent, and people forget what kind of qb he was in kc after sf.actually i think that if joe had those offenses that young had he would have had more rings. the system was a work in progress when joe replaced deberg... the system was at it's peak in the young year (and young had to learn to play from the pocket). young made a lot of mistakes in those nfc champ games vs dallas in the 90's (mistakes i don't think joe makes). I have to agree with you on that one--partially. In the early to mid 90's the Niners had finally finished putting together what could be one of the best offensive teams and if Montana had been at QB during those years maybe we'd be talking about the first QB to win 6 'SuperBowls' But Steve Young didn't upset many and did an excellent job himself giving the Niners rare back-to-back hall of fame QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) 1981 was montana's first full year as a starter. he was throwing to dwight clark (who went to the pro bowl that year), and freddie solomon, who had 969 yards and 9 TDs. in 1982 thru 84, solomon and clark again, with clark in the pro bowl again in 82, and renaldo nehemiah thrown in as an interesting weapon as well. There is no doubt Dwight Clark was a very good pro bowl WR but Freddie Solomon is at best an average to good WR who was the product of Montana's throwing ability getting his stats up. Same with Renaldo Nehemiah--any production out of him is thanks to "Joe Cool" Montana. Jerry Rice is obviously a one-of-a-kind breed of WR's and will always be remembered as the greatest wide receiver of all-time who only helped clarify the abilities of both Young and Montana. Edited April 1, 2006 by TheGrunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 There is no doubt Dwight Clark was a very good pro bowl WR but Freddie Solomon is at best an average to good WR who was the product of Montana's throwing ability getting his stats up. Same with Renaldo Nehemiah--any production out of him is thanks to "Joe Cool" Montana. Jerry Rice is obviously a one-of-a-kind breed of WR's and will always be remembered as the greatest wide receiver of all-time who only helped clarify the abilities of both Young and Montana. 1398035[/snapback] well i sure ain't saying soloman was a great WR. the main point is, during montana's entire tenure with the niners, he was throwing to either dwight clark, john taylor, or jerry rice...and usually two out of the three. 10 years for joe, 10 WR pro bowl appearances. to say he was working with marginal WR talent is just not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 no love for Rothlisberger???? Menudo is gonna be PISSED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 now i don't think elway EVER had a SINGLE pro bowl WR on his team, throughout his entire 16 year career. rod smith didnt make the pro bowl until 2000, after elways was gone. while montana was throwing to dwight clark, jerry rice, and john taylor...elway was throwing to steve watson, vance johnson, and ricky nattiel. not total scrubs, but not even CLOSE to the talent montana was working with. 1398016[/snapback] My question is.... doesn't it take two to tango? Couldn't one say that the QB made the WR ... just as one could say the WR made the QB? Can't have one without the other. Montana had the ability to make his WR's into pro-bowl players... Elway did not. At least that is how it can be read. A mark of greatness is the ability to make those around you better. Montana did this without even trying. Elway... eh, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Joe cool.....great leader / hot wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezhed Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 But to add a memento in the name of Brett Farve here are his career highlights: * 595 Passing Attempts in 1999 * 363 Passing Completions in 1994 * 4413 Passing Yards in 1995 * 39 Passing Touchdowns in 1996 for the greenbay packers * 58 Rushing Attempts in 1993 and 1997 * 216 Rushing Yards in 1993 * Passed for 246 Yards and 2 Touchdowns in 1996 Super Bowl against New England for the greenbay packers * Passed for 256 Yards and 3 Touchdowns in 1997 Super Bowl against Denver * Led NFL in Passing Attempts in 1999 while playing for the Greenbay packers * Led NFL in Passing Completions in 1998 * Led NFL in Passing Yards in 1995 and 1998 * Led NFL in Passing Touchdowns in 1995, 1996, and 1997 1396261[/snapback] just thought I'd throw Super Bowl champ and 3 time MVP in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 actually i think that if joe had those offenses that young had he would have had more rings. the system was a work in progress when joe replaced deberg... the system was at it's peak in the young year (and young had to learn to play from the pocket). young made a lot of mistakes in those nfc champ games vs dallas in the 90's (mistakes i don't think joe makes). 1397920[/snapback] It took the system over a decade to develop? I'm not sure about that. Opposing defensive coordinators also had a good 10 years to adjust to Walsh/Siefert's playbooks by the time that Young took over. But you're right about Joe not making a lot of mistakes. That was definitely his strong point. now i don't think elway EVER had a SINGLE pro bowl WR on his team, throughout his entire 16 year career. rod smith didnt make the pro bowl until 2000, after elways was gone. while montana was throwing to dwight clark, jerry rice, and john taylor...elway was throwing to steve watson, vance johnson, and ricky nattiel. not total scrubs, but not even CLOSE to the talent montana was working with. 1398016[/snapback] To be fair, Elway did have Shannon Sharpe for most of his career. But there's no question who had more overall talent around him (on both sides of the ball), plus better coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 It took the system over a decade to develop? I'm not sure about that. Opposing defensive coordinators also had a good 10 years to adjust to Walsh/Siefert's playbooks by the time that Young took over. But you're right about Joe not making a lot of mistakes. That was definitely his strong point. To be fair, Elway did have Shannon Sharpe for most of his career. But there's no question who had more overall talent around him (on both sides of the ball), plus better coaching. 1398334[/snapback] it took a decade to have the personell to be one of the most potent offenses in history. i meant a decade to put all the pieces together. i would say the system was fully developed in 10 years, but that didn't happen over night. i think young walked into got the starting role when they were at their strongest (and had the advantage of backing up montana- not getting thrown to the sharks). elway's supproting wr cast: 83: watson- 1130 84: watson- 1170 85: v. jonson- 712; watson- 915 86: m. jackson- 738; v. jonshon- 363; watson- 699 (the year he started consistantly have 3 solid threats imo) 87: same 3 88: jackson, jonshon, nattiel 89: jackson, jonshon, nattiel, young 90: same 4 + sharpe's 1st year 91-92: same 5 "wr's" 93: lost jackson, young, nattiel 94: got a very talented anthony miller 95: smith, mccaffrey, miller, v. johnson, sharpe 96: mc, smith, miller, sharpe, carswell, chamberlain 97: no more miller 98: same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 My question is.... doesn't it take two to tango? Couldn't one say that the QB made the WR ... just as one could say the WR made the QB? Can't have one without the other. Montana had the ability to make his WR's into pro-bowl players... Elway did not. At least that is how it can be read. A mark of greatness is the ability to make those around you better. Montana did this without even trying. Elway... eh, not so much. 1398168[/snapback] well, dwight clark was pretty good before montana took over, wasn't he? and jerry rice and john taylor didnt exactly go in the tank when he left, now did they. sorry bro, but the argument that elway had better WR talent around him than montana did is NOT a strong one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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