thecerwin Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 bad info here Can you elaborate a little more please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Can you elaborate a little more please? yes I could, but I am going to bed--lets just say that the post was basically just a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 yes I could, but I am going to bed--lets just say that the post was basically just a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense good info here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrograde assault Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Lots of smart people at the huddle, but not enough to solve this problem. Makes for interesting reading though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecerwin Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 yes I could, but I am going to bed--lets just say that the post was basically just a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense  Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKF Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Plain and simple, Isreal will never turn its backon the Western Wall and the muslim world will never turn its back on the Dome of the Rock. Until some agreement is reached that satisifies both of these requirements, there will never be peace. Â In the meatime, tactical nukes were created for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) How can so many people say this with such certainty? Â The #1 reason that Arabs dislike the US is our support of Israel. Seems to me that things change quite a bit if the US withdraws its unwavering support. Â Do you really think that all problems would be solved? Do you really think that there wouldn't still be a considerable number of terrorist organizations that will continue to target the west until earth's end? Like I said earlier: the damage is done. The situation could be a bit better, but it doesn't come close to ending with a radical move like this. Edited July 16, 2006 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I've long thought we should take over Canada (they're really Americans pretty much anyways) and move all the Jews and Christians from Israel there. Pull out of the middle east and spend those 100's of billions on alt fuel. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Israel is valuable strategically as we can drop our troops and planes down there if nowhere else in the middle east! I know that Israel has given us some static about this in the past but if it came down to it they would have no choice but to allow our military access to the region. Â Â Â If only Iraq would allow us to drop troops and planes down there, we wouldn't need Israel for it. Â But we would need Israel to access Iraq, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Do you really think that all problems would be solved? Do you really think that there wouldn't still be a considerable number of terrorist organizations that will continue to target the west until earth's end? Like I said earlier: the damage is done. The situation could be a bit better, but it doesn't come close to ending with a radical move like this. Â Â I said that things would change "quite a bit." I don't know how you could equate that with "all problems would be solved." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) Spain is a cutter and runner. He is afraid of Muhamad. Â Â Â Came out of nowhere a couple years back and helped me make the playoffs. I'll always be a fan. Â Edited July 16, 2006 by The Holy Roller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 If only Iraq would allow us to drop troops and planes down there, we wouldn't need Israel for it. Â But we would need Israel to access Iraq, I guess. Â Our free access to Iraq is temporary at best. The day we pull out they are plungeing head-long into civil war and I doubt they will be welcomeing us back anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Our free access to Iraq is temporary at best. The day we pull out they are plungeing head-long into civil war and I doubt they will be welcomeing us back anytime soon. Â You mean they haven't already started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Our free access to Iraq is temporary at best. The day we pull out they are plungeing head-long into civil war and I doubt they will be welcomeing us back anytime soon. Â Â We are going to have military bases in Iraq for a long, long time. Â Besides, assuming a total US withdrawal, what would stop us from "accessing" the Middle East through Iraq again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 If only someone in a position of power could come up with a "final solution" to these problematic Jews. Â Whether Spain and Furd are right or wrong about their theoretical policy towards Israel... ultimately we have to live in the real world... and in the real world, Israel would have to do something horibly wrong in order for the U.S. to withdraw it's support. Â Another thing to consider is the strategic location of Israel within the Middle East. Even if we had the best possible relations with all of the Arab countries, it's nice to have a strong enough presence there in the sand dunes to remind them that the flow of spice oil must continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I've long thought we should take over Canada (they're really Americans pretty much anyways) and move all the Jews and Christians from Israel there. Pull out of the middle east and spend those 100's of billions on alt fuel. Problem solved. Â Hell, just move the Israelis into the Dakotas or Wyoming, where nobody lives anyway... Â Â ...then again, the Jews might take that personally and kick OUR asses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 If only someone in a position of power could come up with a "final solution" to these problematic Jews. Â Whether Spain and Furd are right or wrong about their theoretical policy towards Israel... ultimately we have to live in the real world... and in the real world, Israel would have to do something horibly wrong in order for the U.S. to withdraw it's support. Â Another thing to consider is the strategic location of Israel within the Middle East. Even if we had the best possible relations with all of the Arab countries, it's nice to have a strong enough presence there in the sand dunes to remind them that the flow of spice oil must continue. Â The thing about the support for Israel is that despite their missteps and flaws, they have ALWAYS been willing to give diplomacy a try. The failures to achieve peace in that specific area have MUCH more to do with the idiocy of the Palestinians than with any sort of intrasigence on the part of the Israelis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 WOW . I just had about a 20 minute conversation with my local conv store owner and it was an eye opener. First we spoke of his family, his brother also lives here and works at the store. He was on vacation in Beirut, and you guessed it he is stuck there now. What really surprised me was his take on the conflict. First he despises Hezbahla. Blames them for the ruination of his country. He's spot on there. Heres where it gets interesting. He doesnt believe that Israel wants to destroy his country if it wont lead them to Syria and Iran. He feels they are just a pawn leading to a larger goal of controling the entire middle east. He also said that Syria and Iran have the same goal of total control and are using Lebanon as its conduit to that end. It is rather enlightening to speak with someone who is from the region and also someone who in our short sighted view is the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 What really surprised me was his take on the conflict. First he despises Hezbahla. Blames them for the ruination of his country. He's spot on there. Heres where it gets interesting. He doesnt believe that Israel wants to destroy his country if it wont lead them to Syria and Iran. He feels they are just a pawn leading to a larger goal of controling the entire middle east. He also said that Syria and Iran have the same goal of total control and are using Lebanon as its conduit to that end. It is rather enlightening to speak with someone who is from the region and also someone who in our short sighted view is the enemy. Â Boy, it's AMAZING what insight one can get by speaking to other people with an open mind. Â As to Middle East control... ... I think if the issues in Gaza and the West Bank have shown Isreal anything, it's that controlling Arab territory is a ridiculous amount of trouble. I'd think Israel would only be seeking control as a means to security. Â Iran and Syria seem like dick-swingers to me - power for power's sake. Which is sad, because pre-9/11, the young generation of Iranians were the Great White Hope to rise up and establish Western-style democracy - complete with a healthy dose of women's rights, a more liberal society, and a secularized goverment - in the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Boy, it's AMAZING what insight one can get by speaking to other people with an open mind. Â As to Middle East control... ... I think if the issues in Gaza and the West Bank have shown Isreal anything, it's that controlling Arab territory is a ridiculous amount of trouble. I'd think Israel would only be seeking control as a means to security. Â Iran and Syria seem like dick-swingers to me - power for power's sake. Which is sad, because pre-9/11, the young generation of Iranians were the Great White Hope to rise up and establish Western-style democracy - complete with a healthy dose of women's rights, a more liberal society, and a secularized goverment - in the Middle East. Â Yeah pre 9/11 Iran looked like they had an outside chance of becomeing the next Turkey. Unfortunately there religous zelots have way too much control and alas they are back to the extremest mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Yeah pre 9/11 Iran looked like they had an outside chance of becomeing the next Turkey. Unfortunately there religous zelots have way too much control and alas they are back to the extremest mentality. Â If you're a glass half full kind of guy, this Iranian thing may be temporary. That same generation pre-9/11 is still there and it hasn't changed it's mind. Some of the theocratic hierarchy are also not in the mold of Khomeini, too. All is not lost in Iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 and in the real world, Israel would have to do something horibly wrong in order for the U.S. to withdraw it's support. Â Â With the inordinate amount of influence that the Jewish lobby has on our politicians, there is absolutely NOTHING Israel could do, no matter how horrible, that would cause the US to withdraw its support. Nothing. And everybody in the middle east knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 With the inordinate amount of influence that the Jewish lobby has on our politicians, there is absolutely NOTHING Israel could do, no matter how horrible, that would cause the US to withdraw its support. Nothing. And everybody in the middle east knows it. Â Â Â Not to mention the Jewish influence in Hollywood... more power there than a lot of people realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Not to mention the Jewish influence in Hollywood... more power there than a lot of people realize. Â Lot of stereotyping in Hollywood movies. Never any evil Jewish masterminds though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 With the inordinate amount of influence that the Jewish lobby has on our politicians, there is absolutely NOTHING Israel could do, no matter how horrible, that would cause the US to withdraw its support. Nothing. And everybody in the middle east knows it. Â Those Israelis certainly are vile, what with their democratic government, willingness to compromise with terrorists, and constant defense of themselves after they are attacked. Â Considering the stunts the US has pulled after ONE terrorist attack on our soil, I don't think any American can throw stones at the Israeli handling of the Palestinian situation as it currently stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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