US support of Israel and terrorism

[Jumpin Johnies]

Are you calling Sarge retarded? I just insinuated that his writing skills were poor.

 

No I'm not but that's pretty funny. Sarge and I got off on the wrong foot as just about anyone could tell you. Me calling him retarded would lead him to purchase a plane ticket to Vegas and he and I dooking it out at WCoFF.

[wiegie]

I'm... calling him retarded...

[Azazello1313]

Are you calling Sarge retarded? I just insinuated that his writing skills were poor.

 

no, i think he was actually insinuating that sarge's kids are retarded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MojoMan]

I'm just pissed cuz I spend about 5 minutes trying to comprehend Sarge's crappy post. I kept thinking; there must be something to this. Well there wasn't. The post didn't make any sense.

 

...what a waste of 5 minutes

[Duchess Jack]

Turd, typical democrat.

 

This kind of thinking is all over the left these days, good luck in the elections!

 

You're quick to spew venom, but how about an answer there, Hate. What has Israel done to deserve all that we do for them?

[Doc Holliday]

Israel is as bad as the rest of the Middle East? What does that mean exactly Doc?

 

It's the Arab states that are proclaiming that Jews should be eliminated from the Middle East or at least succumb to Islamic rule, right?

 

It's the Arab states that claim Judaism (and Christianity) are deviant religions, right.

 

Last I checked, Israel was the only western democracy in the Middle East. And last I checked Israel wasn't sending suicide bombers to go intentionally blow up innocent civilians.

 

You want to argue that the beach shelling was horrific and deplorable? That's fine, but are you suggesting Israel killed those Palestinian civilians intentionally? Come on! And are you further suggesting that the beach deaths are what precipitated the Palestinians crossing the border two weeks later and killing the soldiers? And what about Hezbollah's raid? Tit for tat was not the reason asserted by the culprits for either of those "missions!"

 

Israel takes up what...a percent of the entire geographic area called the "Middle East?" And Israel is home to thousands of Palestinian refugees who manage to live peaceful, productive lives among all those darn Jews!

 

Do you really think there is no difference between Israel and the rest of the Arab states?

 

And by the way, I voted an emphatic "No!" I pray we never make concessions to terrorists.

 

 

I think the whole middle east INCLUDING Israel is a mess. many people forget where terrorism groups originated. they originated in Israel. you stopped hearing about them after 911.

 

Every time Palestine does agree to some kind of truce Israel pulls the same thing. they instigate it then use the media to bash the Arab states. not that I like the Arab states anymore than the others. just get sick of Israel getting off the hook.

 

Now you bring religion into it. neither Muslims or Jewish religions are friendly to people not of their religion. to the Jews , non Jews are slaves to the Jews. to Arabs we are infidels. of course you can look at any religion and point out how it bashes all others. I just find bashing 1 religion when both are just as bad.

 

You say how peaceful the Jews are. and I agree for the most part when it comes to most Muslims and Jews. a majority of all people are good. its the power of politics that attracts all the wrong kinds of people and those countries leaders are among the worst.

[Guest Cherni]

You're quick to spew venom, but how about an answer there, Hate. What has Israel done to deserve all that we do for them?

 

 

There is a very simple explanation of why the U.S and Israel have been allies. There was a time that you might recall when Arab nations weren't our biggest problem. Our biggest problem was a big Superpower called The Soviet Union maybe you heard of them? The Soviets had a bad a$$ jet called the Mig21. No Western nation was ever able to get a good look at it but it scared the crap out of the Western world.

 

Here's where it gets interesting. In the 60's, the Moussad AKA the best intelligence agency in the world sent a smoking hot chick undercover to Iraq. This operative met an Iraqi fighter pilot who was trained in the Soviet Union (and flew Mig21's) and offered him a ton of $$$ if he would do her a favor. He accepted the favor, which was to fly his Mig21 and land in Israel. He accepted and the Israeli government handed the jet over to the United States. This olive branch (don't forget it was the 60's and MAD was a very realistic notion) was a HUGH measure of goodwill from the Israeli's and the U.S. hasn't forgotten what they have done for us.

 

That was then. Now all Israel does is share extremely sensitive intelligence with... you guessed it, the good ole USA. So before people jump on this anti-Israel bandwagon, don't forget that some of our biggest threats come from that region and Israel is doing it's best to share any information they have, and they have plenty. It's a relationship that benefits both countries immensily and it's in our best interests, given they're the only democratic nation in the Middle East to keep supporting them.

 

We give them aid, they give us info, a very good deal IMO. Less Americans over there getting their heads chopped off. Just my .02.

[tonorator]

That post is chock a block with dangling participles, inconsistent use of pronouns, and bizarre sentence structures. Evidently, your reading comprehension for poor writing is better than mine.

 

 

welcome to the huddle!

[skins]

to the Jews , non Jews are slaves to the Jews.

 

 

Are you a complete drooling dementoid encephalitic downs syndrome mongoloid idiot?

Edited July 18, 2006 by skins

[spain]

Are you a complete drooling dementoid encephalitic downs syndrome mongoloid idiot?

 

No, he is black.

[Jumpin Johnies]

You're quick to spew venom, but how about an answer there, Hate. What has Israel done to deserve all that we do for them?

 

They kill Arabs.

[Guest Cherni]

They kill Arabs.

 

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Are you calling Sarge retarded? I just insinuated that his writing skills were poor.

 

yes

 

Didn't some Israeli spies get in trouble for spying on the u.s. a few years ago

[Ursa Majoris]

yes

 

Didn't some Israeli spies get in trouble for spying on the u.s. a few years ago

 

Israel's espionage in the US is both endemic and aggressive. There are hundreds of cases.

[bushwacked]

No, he is black.

 

 

That made me chuckle.

[Meat Face]

I vote for killing all the terrorists and anyone who gets in our way. that sounds more fun.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

The correct answer is of course no.

 

Now, to think outside the box...The only way there will ever be peace in the middle east is if Tom Cruise intervenes and brings the true message of Scientology to the heathen Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

[Avernus]

yes

 

Didn't some Israeli spies get in trouble for spying on the u.s. a few years ago

 

 

they are playing both sides of the fence...

 

they spy on us for other countries and vice verses....

[Meat Face]

The correct answer is of course no.

 

Now, to think outside the box...The only way there will ever be peace in the middle east is if Tom Cruise intervenes and brings the true message of Scientology to the heathen Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

 

 

the only way there will be true peace is when Israel wipes out every last terrorist and a few innocents for good measure. Peace the old fashioned way. Anyone who thinks different is wrong.

[WaterMan]

We've covered this before, the US turning their backs on Israel is just another step towards the Rapture. which the Christians do not want so they will fight tooth and nail for our continued support of Israel.

[Furd]

There is a very simple explanation of why the U.S and Israel have been allies. There was a time that you might recall when Arab nations weren't our biggest problem. Our biggest problem was a big Superpower called The Soviet Union maybe you heard of them? The Soviets had a bad a$$ jet called the Mig21. No Western nation was ever able to get a good look at it but it scared the crap out of the Western world.

 

Here's where it gets interesting. In the 60's, the Moussad AKA the best intelligence agency in the world sent a smoking hot chick undercover to Iraq. This operative met an Iraqi fighter pilot who was trained in the Soviet Union (and flew Mig21's) and offered him a ton of $$$ if he would do her a favor. He accepted the favor, which was to fly his Mig21 and land in Israel. He accepted and the Israeli government handed the jet over to the United States. This olive branch (don't forget it was the 60's and MAD was a very realistic notion) was a HUGH measure of goodwill from the Israeli's and the U.S. hasn't forgotten what they have done for us.

 

That was then. Now all Israel does is share extremely sensitive intelligence with... you guessed it, the good ole USA. So before people jump on this anti-Israel bandwagon, don't forget that some of our biggest threats come from that region and Israel is doing it's best to share any information they have, and they have plenty. It's a relationship that benefits both countries immensily and it's in our best interests, given they're the only democratic nation in the Middle East to keep supporting them.

 

We give them aid, they give us info, a very good deal IMO. Less Americans over there getting their heads chopped off. Just my .02.

 

 

I think that you are overestimating the value of Israel allowing the US to look at the MiG. I'm not sure that we got as warm and fuzzy over it as you suggest. Plus, why wouldn't Israel share the information with us?

 

From what I understand, the relationship between the Mossad and the CIA is a guarded one. I doubt that you would find many people in the US intelligence community to agree with your statement:

 

Israel is doing it's best to share any information they have

 

I think that it is pretty clear that Israel acts with its best interests in mind. I don't blame them in the least for that. This intelligence sharing to which you refer benefits them.

 

Certain Muslims hate the Jews. They hate them with or without US support. Certain Muslims hate the United States. A big part of the hatred seems to stem from our support of Israel.

 

Israel has a very good deal with the US. We do not have a very good deal with Israel for the above and other reasons. Under a cost/benefit analysis, our rellationship with Israel costs us more than it benefits us. Whether its worth the costs is the question.

[Guest Cherni]

I think that you are overestimating the value of Israel allowing the US to look at the MiG. I'm not sure that we got as warm and fuzzy over it as you suggest. Plus, why wouldn't Israel share the information with us?

 

From what I understand, the relationship between the Mossad and the CIA is a guarded one. I doubt that you would find many people in the US intelligence community to agree with your statement:

I think that it is pretty clear that Israel acts with its best interests in mind. I don't blame them in the least for that. This intelligence sharing to which you refer benefits them.

 

Certain Muslims hate the Jews. They hate them with or without US support. Certain Muslims hate the United States. A big part of the hatred seems to stem from our support of Israel.

 

Israel has a very good deal with the US. We do not have a very good deal with Israel for the above and other reasons. Under a cost/benefit analysis, our rellationship with Israel costs us more than it benefits us. Whether its worth the costs is the question.

 

Needless to say, the CIA and the U.S. Air Force were delighted with access to the Soviet's first line fighter and the chill of the Eisenhower/Dulles years began to thaw.

 

Following the turning over of the MiG-21, President Johnson invited Prime Minister Levi Eshkol to his ranch in Texas and Eshkol arrived with a long shopping list. He left with promises of future U.S. military supplies, including A-4 attack aircraft. Although the U.S. military hardware did not arrive in time for the 1967 war, it ultimately replaced the French source for military hardware and the U.S.-Israel special relationship became closer and warmer.

 

In 1967, Israel was threatened with destruction by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and other Arab countries and the June 1967 war occurred. An excellent account of this war, commonly called the "Six Day War," was recently published by Michael Oren - Six Days of War (Oxford Press, 2002). Prior to the Six Day War, the continued existence of Israel was in doubt. The U.S. relationship was becoming warmer but at best the U.S. was a friendly neutral. Dean Rusk said that being neutral was not an expression of indifference, but Israel was not an ally. At the outbreak of the Six Day War, State Department Spokesman Robert McClosky announced on behalf of the United States: "Our position [on the war] is neutral in thought, word, and deed."

 

Following Israel's stunning victory in the Six Day War, a euphoria set in around the world and strong support for the state of Israel developed in the United States. American public opinion swung dramatically in favor of Israel and for the first time in history, a majority of American Jews became Zionists, that is they supported the concept of a Jewish state.

 

From 1967 forward, the special relationship between the United States and Israel developed and grew. It has had its ups and downs on the political level as U.S. national interests, especially the need for oil, make it expedient for the U.S. Government to court favor with various Arab states, but the relationship remained relatively constant and strong at both the military and intelligence levels.

 

Israel did not retaliate against Iraq during the Gulf War when Iraq launched SCUD missiles at Israeli cities. The exercise of this restraint by Israel preserved the coalition of Arab states created by the United States to drive the Iraqis out of Kuwait. This restraint was appreciated by the U.S.

 

Israel has voted with the U.S. at the United Nations about 88 percent of the time, more often than any other nation and the U.S. has usually protected Israel from hostile Security Council Resolutions by the exercise of its veto. Recent polls confirm that the special relationship between the United States and Israel remains strong.

[Perchoutofwater]

We've covered this before, the US turning their backs on Israel is just another step towards the Rapture. which the Christians do not want so they will fight tooth and nail for our continued support of Israel.

 

 

Funny, I thought most christians looked forward to the rapture. If anything it would be non-christians or borderline christians, who know of the christian teachings regarding the rapture that do not want to see this come to pass, because while they do not buy in to christianity the uncertainty that the rapture may actually occur scares the crap out of them.

[wiegie]

Funny, I thought most christians looked forward to the rapture. If anything it would be non-christians or borderline christians, who know of the christian teachings regarding the rapture that do not want to see this come to pass, because while they do not buy in to christianity the uncertainty that the rapture may actually occur scares the crap out of them.

 

yep, waterman has it exactly backwards. Evangelical Christians (who I will note are NOT most Christians) support Israel exactly because they think doing so will make the rapture happen sooner. (I will also note that most Christians do not believe in the fundy notion of rapture either).

[Furd]

Needless to say, the CIA and the U.S. Air Force were delighted with access to the Soviet's first line fighter and the chill of the Eisenhower/Dulles years began to thaw.

 

Following the turning over of the MiG-21, President Johnson invited Prime Minister Levi Eshkol to his ranch in Texas and Eshkol arrived with a long shopping list. He left with promises of future U.S. military supplies, including A-4 attack aircraft. Although the U.S. military hardware did not arrive in time for the 1967 war, it ultimately replaced the French source for military hardware and the U.S.-Israel special relationship became closer and warmer.

 

In 1967, Israel was threatened with destruction by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and other Arab countries and the June 1967 war occurred. An excellent account of this war, commonly called the "Six Day War," was recently published by Michael Oren - Six Days of War (Oxford Press, 2002). Prior to the Six Day War, the continued existence of Israel was in doubt. The U.S. relationship was becoming warmer but at best the U.S. was a friendly neutral. Dean Rusk said that being neutral was not an expression of indifference, but Israel was not an ally. At the outbreak of the Six Day War, State Department Spokesman Robert McClosky announced on behalf of the United States: "Our position [on the war] is neutral in thought, word, and deed."

 

Following Israel's stunning victory in the Six Day War, a euphoria set in around the world and strong support for the state of Israel developed in the United States. American public opinion swung dramatically in favor of Israel and for the first time in history, a majority of American Jews became Zionists, that is they supported the concept of a Jewish state.

 

From 1967 forward, the special relationship between the United States and Israel developed and grew. It has had its ups and downs on the political level as U.S. national interests, especially the need for oil, make it expedient for the U.S. Government to court favor with various Arab states, but the relationship remained relatively constant and strong at both the military and intelligence levels.

 

Israel did not retaliate against Iraq during the Gulf War when Iraq launched SCUD missiles at Israeli cities. The exercise of this restraint by Israel preserved the coalition of Arab states created by the United States to drive the Iraqis out of Kuwait. This restraint was appreciated by the U.S.

 

Israel has voted with the U.S. at the United Nations about 88 percent of the time, more often than any other nation and the U.S. has usually protected Israel from hostile Security Council Resolutions by the exercise of its veto. Recent polls confirm that the special relationship between the United States and Israel remains strong.

 

 

So what?

 

According to your post, the Six Day War was the catalyst behind Americans supporting the Jews.

 

It was in Israel's best interests not to retaliate during the Gulf War. The Coalition was there to take care of Iraq. The benefits to Israel in keeping the coalition together far outweighed the potential ramifications of Israel responding in an eye-for-an-eye manner or worse, paricularly when Coalition troops could accomplish the same thing.

 

And it is hardly a tit-for-tat in the UN. The US is on the Security Council with massive influence. Israel is just another state. The US has single handedly protected Israel. Israel voting with the US is largely a symbolic gesture. I'd be suprised if Israels vote has ever made a difference.