carrb69 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Is it just me, or does this sound like another round of the William Green experience? Great second half of his rookie season then bust the next year with relatively high expectations the following year. I'm not saying he won't be better this year with the new coaching staff, but like others have suggested, Martz isn't really a great coach for RBs. I know Faulk was great from '99 to '01 with Martz, but Jones is definitely no Faulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 It is training camp. Time for Lions fans to start thinking playoffs and beyond! Seriously, I get sucked into this hype every year. It must be something in the water. I am not getting sucked into anything. I am simply stating what I heard. Isn't that the purpose of this fourm? Yeah, I like him as a value pick, does not mean that I expect him to be top 5. Hell, I know you are pessimistic but stop craking on others for posting anything about the Leos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) I hope Kevin Jones does well this year. Its my 10th year in a keeper league and my roster of 4 keepers is Larry Johnson, Caddy Williams, Kevin Jones, and Marvin Harrison. It took me a long time to get a roster like this and I've suffered (one of the worst teams the past 2 years). I've made a few mistakes which have set me back. If Kevin Jones lives up to his potential....my team will be lethal this year. Kevin Jones was the highest rated high school back going into college.....better then caddy and cedric bensen......he put up monster stats at va tech...and showed what he could do in the latter half of his first year. This guy has all the tools......only a matter of when. Mooch was not the right fit at Detroit. Did anyone see him on NFL network during the super bowl? Well when they had larry johnson in....Mooch was saying how he prefers RBBC, because your backs are less likely to get hurt and you can put in certain backs at specific situations. LJ was like...naw..no way..I need 30 carries lol. KJ will thrive without Mooch there.... Edited July 20, 2006 by samurai30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 :moves KJ up a few notches....regardless of the fact he burned me last year: Yeah, this is interested news. I too will move Kevin Jones a little bit higher. As much as a prick Mike Martz seems like, the guy knows offense and he should make a decent one in Detroit. I think Kevin Jones is way too talented to not produce under a guy like Martz. He has had some injury concerns and if he gets into trouble this year, his future could be in trouble with a guy like Calhoun behind him. I would no doubt take a flier on this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yeah, this is interested news. I too will move Kevin Jones a little bit higher. As much as a prick Mike Martz seems like, the guy knows offense and he should make a decent one in Detroit. I think Kevin Jones is way too talented to not produce under a guy like Martz. He has had some injury concerns and if he gets into trouble this year, his future could be in trouble with a guy like Calhoun behind him. I would no doubt take a flier on this guy. Quite a few mocks have KJ going in the 2nd round. I haven't seen him taken in the 1st round yet....way too early...for that most likely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Quite a few mocks have KJ going in the 2nd round. I haven't seen him taken in the 1st round yet....way too early...for that most likely.... I agree he is not first round material but in the late second he may be a great value pick. Edited July 21, 2006 by BigTen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I agree he is not first round material but in the late second he may be a great value pick. Yup, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Yup, no doubt. Most of the owners that had KJ last year, probably feel pretty jaded. I would too if I had him, last year. But it was pretty obvious mooch had no confidence in KJ. Joey "Happy feet" Harrington could not throw worth a lick. The whole offense was pathetic. KJ has decent size....not a lot of shiftiness, but one cut runners can be dangerous in the right system. Check out this video of him....some lion's fan made a tribute to barry sanders and kevin jones. If KJ is given some holes.....watch out.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-aiXnWBmn0...h=kevin%20jones Edited July 21, 2006 by samurai30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Is it just me, or does this sound like another round of the William Green experience? Great second half of his rookie season then bust the next year with relatively high expectations the following year. I'm not saying he won't be better this year with the new coaching staff, but like others have suggested, Martz isn't really a great coach for RBs. I know Faulk was great from '99 to '01 with Martz, but Jones is definitely no Faulk. Are u serious? William Green? For one thing, WG was slow coming out of college...his 40 time was weak. He has no breakaway speed. Second, WG's head is messed up....dude has some problems upstairs (knife issues). Don't compare KJ to Green..... Edited July 21, 2006 by samurai30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-aiXnWBmn0...h=kevin%20jones The Past... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I know that those in this thread are not directly comparing Jones to Faulk, but they do think that Jones can thrive in the Mike Martz system. Let me play Devil's Advocate here. Matt Millen spent three consecutive first round picks on WR's. He's got a QB in Jon Kitna whom I think is a decent QB, not a great one. Compare the Lions receiving corps with that of the Rams last year. Are they as good as Holt/Bruce/Curtis? IMO, no. Is Kitna as good as Bulger (when healthy)? IMO, no. That leaves the RB comparison. Is KJ better than SJax? Jackson had an "ok" year last year, with a better offensive complement. How can KJ do better? In addition, Martz went away from the run so many times and went away from SJax in the passing game as well. Doesn't it make sense that he does the same in Detroit? I got burned by KJ last year big time. LJ saved me. Unless he's going for about $30, I am not buying. Thoughts? I may be speaking out of my rearend but I thought I'd throw a wrench into this mini KJ love fest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrb69 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Are u serious? William Green? For one thing, WG was slow coming out of college...his 40 time was weak. He has no breakaway speed. Second, WG's head is messed up....dude has some problems upstairs (knife issues). Don't compare KJ to Green..... All I'm saying is that there are parallels to their careers so far. Everyone was high on WG his second season after the big finish to his rookie season and he let everyone down. Now with the new coaching system, everyone has high expectations (relatively) for KJ again this season. I'm not saying he'll go the way of WG, but I'm not saying he won't either. KJ may be great this season, I don't know, and neither do you. I'm just noticing the parallels in their careers so far as far as performance. I don't really care WHY they don't perform well, just that they DON'T. That said, I'm in an auction dynasty league and if I can get him cheap, I'll grab him, I just won't expect too much from him. By the way, Green was stabbed by his fiancee in Nov 2001. He doesn't have "knife issues". He did violate the substance abuse policy and was suspended for 4 games though. Edited July 21, 2006 by carrb69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 I know that those in this thread are not directly comparing Jones to Faulk, but they do think that Jones can thrive in the Mike Martz system. Let me play Devil's Advocate here. Matt Millen spent three consecutive first round picks on WR's. He's got a QB in Jon Kitna whom I think is a decent QB, not a great one. Compare the Lions receiving corps with that of the Rams last year. Are they as good as Holt/Bruce/Curtis? IMO, no. Is Kitna as good as Bulger (when healthy)? IMO, no. That leaves the RB comparison. Is KJ better than SJax? Jackson had an "ok" year last year, with a better offensive complement. How can KJ do better? In addition, Martz went away from the run so many times and went away from SJax in the passing game as well. Doesn't it make sense that he does the same in Detroit? I got burned by KJ last year big time. LJ saved me. Unless he's going for about $30, I am not buying. Thoughts? I may be speaking out of my rearend but I thought I'd throw a wrench into this mini KJ love fest. I completely understand and your points are valid. However I believe that he has only had one bad year and I will not throw him under the bus just yet. Yeah, a lot of guys got burned by him but I belive that that is Mooch's fault more than anything. He was not used right and I believe that Marinelli will use him properly. Mooch used the d@mn RBBC to much. I think that Jones will be better than last year and that he will be used properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) I know that those in this thread are not directly comparing Jones to Faulk, but they do think that Jones can thrive in the Mike Martz system. Let me play Devil's Advocate here. Matt Millen spent three consecutive first round picks on WR's. He's got a QB in Jon Kitna whom I think is a decent QB, not a great one. Compare the Lions receiving corps with that of the Rams last year. Are they as good as Holt/Bruce/Curtis? IMO, no. Is Kitna as good as Bulger (when healthy)? IMO, no. That leaves the RB comparison. Is KJ better than SJax? Jackson had an "ok" year last year, with a better offensive complement. How can KJ do better? In addition, Martz went away from the run so many times and went away from SJax in the passing game as well. Doesn't it make sense that he does the same in Detroit? I got burned by KJ last year big time. LJ saved me. Unless he's going for about $30, I am not buying. Thoughts? I may be speaking out of my rearend but I thought I'd throw a wrench into this mini KJ love fest. Yes, as a head coach Martz went away from the run. But have we forgotten that Martz isn't the head coach...a man named Marinelli is, and Marinelli preaches pounding "da rock". I think the offense won't totally be in the hands of Martz, but it will be a hybrid of martz and marinelli. Make sense at all? If this is the case, I think there will be more running plays in the mix..but the offense will still be very pass happy at times with Martz....but not as bad as what happened last year with the rams Edited July 21, 2006 by samurai30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 All I'm saying is that there are parallels to their careers so far. Everyone was high on WG his second season after the big finish to his rookie season and he let everyone down. Now with the new coaching system, everyone has high expectations (relatively) for KJ again this season. I'm not saying he'll go the way of WG, but I'm not saying he won't either. KJ may be great this season, I don't know, and neither do you. I'm just noticing the parallels in their careers so far as far as performance. I don't really care WHY they don't perform well, just that they DON'T. That said, I'm in an auction dynasty league and if I can get him cheap, I'll grab him, I just won't expect too much from him. By the way, Green was stabbed by his fiancee in Nov 2001. He doesn't have "knife issues". He did violate the substance abuse policy and was suspended for 4 games though. I get what u are saying Carb. I too thought about that...hmmm....is KJ another William Green clone? I think william green could of been a better back, but he lacks the mental aspect. He did have a rough childhood, and I was rooting for him, but his mistakes with drugs and the wierd thing that happened with his wife raises some concerns. Look at Travis Henry, Onterrio smith and so forth who have been caught with Josh Gordon. Their mind is not there....football is a second priority. As with KJ, he seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. His father is very influential on him..which is good. And KJ has been working like a dog this off season to improve pass protection and pass catching. I like to hear that in backs....working on improving skillz..not just carrying the ball..cause we all know he can do that. KJ is certainly not a sure thing, but for his value on where he might be picked...he could well be a great bargin. But I don't think he'll go the route of Sir William..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 The Past... did u see the move Barry put on Tampa's John Lynch....omg.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 did u see the move Barry put on Tampa's John Lynch....omg.... Same move that he made on Rod Woodson. A blown out knee later Barry was in the Endzoe and Woodson was carted off (too bad he was great). When you can wreck a mans knee without even touching him that is saying something. Barry was something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Same move that he made on Rod Woodson. A blown out knee later Barry was in the Endzoe and Woodson was carted off (too bad he was great). When you can wreck a mans knee without even touching him that is saying something. Barry was something special. Yeah, too bad he flipped out and retired, leaving you guys high and dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) kj is a good 2nd round pick over many of the other RB2 options for one simple reason - he is THE MAN in detroit. whether it is jones/barber, rhodes/addai, brown/white, dillon/maloney, foster/williams, etc., you have to use 2 picks to be sure you get THE MAN for that team. take jones instead and then use that extra pick for a better WR or QB. combine that with the positive changes on the offensive side, and you have to be willing to take a shot on him this year. Edited July 21, 2006 by tonorator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) kj is a good 2nd round pick over many of the other RB2 options for one simple reason - he is THE MAN in detroit. whether it is jones/barber, rhodes/addai, brown/white, dillon/maloney, foster/williams, etc., you have to use 2 picks to be sure you get THE MAN for that team. take jones instead and then use that extra pick for a better WR or QB. combine that with the positive changes on the offensive side, and you have to be willing to take a shot on him this year. Good point, hes one of the few not in the dreaded RBBC approach. Cal or shawn don't really scare me too much to take a lot of carries away from KJ...unless KJ really really stinks it up...but I highly doubt that...too much talent in there to make him a bust... Edited July 21, 2006 by samurai30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 kj is a good 2nd round pick over many of the other RB2 options for one simple reason - he is THE MAN in detroit. whether it is jones/barber, rhodes/addai, brown/white, dillon/maloney, foster/williams, etc., you have to use 2 picks to be sure you get THE MAN for that team. take jones instead and then use that extra pick for a better WR or QB. combine that with the positive changes on the offensive side, and you have to be willing to take a shot on him this year. Thanks for the good input but if I pick KJ you better believe I'll be spending a very late pick on Calhoun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai30 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) This is an interesting angle I hadn't thought of, but I'm not sure I buy it. Martz's ego and credentials are too high for him to not have demanded complete control of the offense. Also, Marinelli has never been a head coach and so he hasn't ever had any say in any offense, so there really isn't anything to base this on. All head coaches say cliche's like they want to pound the ball, everything starts with the run, etc. Except for Martz. He never apologized for not running the ball. In fact, he might FREAK OUT if you suggested that they should. You really think its all going to be martz calling the plays? I would be pissed off if I were marinelli if Martz was doing his own thing. Marinelli has to have some say in the game day preparation both offensively and defensively. Obviously he'll let Martz do his thing, but there has to some control by Marinelli and I'm not just talking about going for it on 4th down or not.... Edited July 21, 2006 by samurai30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowdog Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 You really think its all going to be martz calling the plays? I would be pissed off if I were marinelli if Martz was doing his own thing. Marinelli has to have some say in the game day preparation both offensively and defensively. Obviously he'll let Martz do his thing, but there has to some control by Marinelli and I'm not just talking about going for it on 4th down or not.... Excellent point. Martz as offensive coordinator with a head coach that wants to run, run, run = RB Gold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTen Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 This is an interesting angle I hadn't thought of, but I'm not sure I buy it. Martz's ego and credentials are too high for him to not have demanded complete control of the offense. Also, Marinelli has never been a head coach and so he hasn't ever had any say in any offense, so there really isn't anything to base this on. All head coaches say cliche's like they want to pound the ball, everything starts with the run, etc. Except for Martz. He never apologized for not running the ball. In fact, he might FREAK OUT if you suggested that they should. Marinelli will not be a pawn in Detroit. You can tell that he wants control and demands respect. He did not wait this long to get a HC job to be lead around by the nose by a coordinator. Yeah, he will let Martz do his thing but he will be the main man and will be the decision maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Excellent points above on Marinelli. However, WANTING to run and BEING ABLE to run are two different things. Marinelli wants to "pound da rock" and that will probably mean that Martz cannot just go away from the run as he is prone to do. This is a good thing for KJ. BUT... ...the Detroit D will have a big say in how much pounding of da rock this team gets to do. They may be in for a whole lotta passing in the 2nd half. If KJ is not involved in the passing game, he's only valuable for a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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