Meat Face Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 From MIT Technology Review: better than most. article graph from article I also have actual scientific articles if anyone wants to see what the science looks like. I've always been curious as to what the data looks like, so I dug it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Saw that graph on the Discovery special on Sunday, "What You Need To Know". Obvious proof that we have totally screwed the cycle. Right now we are supposed to have been in a 5 year cooling trend but the temp is following the carbon emissions step for step. Real depressing weekend, reading - Kurt Vonnegut "Galapagos", renting "The Corporation", TV "Global Warming: What You Need to Know"... Good thing i take the train to work and recycle and stuff, otherwise I think I'd feel real bad. Edit to add: I also bought the new Thom Yorke album this weekend "The Eraser"... the whole things about climate change and the fact that "...time is running out, on us." Edited July 21, 2006 by DemonKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Do I need to pull the daisyworld model out again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Humans negatively affecting the earth. Nothing surprising there. We'll either kill each other off or the global warming will make food more scarce and we'll die off that way...and then the earth will go through a cooling cycle and it will all be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Face Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Do I need to pull the daisyworld model out again? please don't. Start your own thread if you want to discuss Daisyworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codwagon Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Humans negatively affecting the earth. Nothing surprising there. We'll either kill each other off or the global warming will make food more scarce and we'll die off that way...and then the earth will go through a cooling cycle and it will all be good. Seems to me that global warming would actually increase growing seasons and expand the fertility ranges in the extreme north and south. Not to mention increased weather patterns providing much needed rain. Could be a good thing for our burgeoning population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Just looking at the graph, it looks like we are just in another warming cycle, which appears normal. I don't see where the alramist cry is coming from. It is also obvious that carbon naturally spikes during these warming periods regardless of what man is doing. Warming periods promote the growth in plant life, the plant life expresses the vast majority of carbond dioxide which in turn promotes rising temperatures, which then promotes more plant life, and on and on and on, until it gets too hot for the plant life, and it all dies out, then carbon dioxide supply stops the earth starts to cool and go into an ice age. Then a few volcanic eruptions here and there bring the level of carbon dioxide back up promoting warming, long forgotten seeds germenate and rinse, wash, repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Seems to me that global warming would actually increase growing seasons and expand the fertility ranges in the extreme north and south. Not to mention increased weather patterns providing much needed rain. Could be a good thing for our burgeoning population. Sorry Cod, but I would prefer that actual mainstream scientists make this call rather than FF folk ... The expansion of deserts does not bode well for a vision of increased fertility ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Seems to me that global warming would actually increase growing seasons and expand the fertility ranges in the extreme north and south. Not to mention increased weather patterns providing much needed rain. Could be a good thing for our burgeoning population. While greatly expanding desert areas, including our own deserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 While greatly expanding desert areas, including our own deserts. Get your own desert expansion schtick ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Get your own desert expansion schtick ... Great minds........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Just looking at the graph, it looks like we are just in another warming cycle, which appears normal. well it does until you get to the last 100 years or so (which on this graph is like a millimeter). look at where the CO2 levels go up to. and look at the virtually straight up temp spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) Just looking at the graph, it looks like we are just in another warming cycle, which appears normal. I don't see where the alramist cry is coming from. It is also obvious that carbon naturally spikes during these warming periods regardless of what man is doing. The mainstream scientific opinion on global warming = alarmist cry. Look at the graph again. The black line indicates recent CO2 levels are doing something funky in respect to the previous historical warming period peaks (which in turn may be effecting the red line). Edited July 21, 2006 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Seems to me that global warming would actually increase growing seasons and expand the fertility ranges in the extreme north and south. Not to mention increased weather patterns providing much needed rain. Could be a good thing for our burgeoning population. With global warming, we would lose many large coastal cities due to the ice packs melting. Also, this changes sea currents, etc....which in a cause and effect chain, negatively affect fertility ranges, etc. That is what they said on Discovery the other night anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codwagon Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Sorry Cod, but I would prefer that actual mainstream scientists make this call rather than FF folk ... The expansion of deserts does not bode well for a vision of increased fertility ... Some well known facts that everyone knows (scientist or not): Plants like CO2 Plants like warm weather Plants like rain The desert expansion theory has, thus far, only been modeled by scientists. And I can only wonder if they are funded by groups with agendas. Just like other studies are swayed by people with opposing views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Some well known facts that everyone knows (scientist or not): Plants like CO2 Plants like warm weather Plants like rain The desert expansion theory has, thus far, only been modeled by scientists. And I can only wonder if they are funded by groups with agendas. Just like other studies are swayed by people with opposing views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Some well known facts that everyone knows (scientist or not): Plants like CO2 Plants like warm weather Plants like rain The desert expansion theory has, thus far, only been modeled by scientists. And I can only wonder if they are funded by groups with agendas. Just like other studies are swayed by people with opposing views. OK, Im sold. Im going to drive my Ford Excursion around the block for a few hours and really green this place up ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 OK, Im sold. Im going to drive my Ford Excursion around the block for a few hours and really green this place up ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Some well known facts that everyone knows (scientist or not): Plants like CO2 Plants like warm weather Plants like rain The desert expansion theory has, thus far, only been modeled by scientists. And I can only wonder if they are funded by groups with agendas. Just like other studies are swayed by people with opposing views. I'm sorry, CW, but this is so primitively simplistic I find it hard to believe you're not just Who exactly would be funding these people that want to persuade us of a non-existent global warming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Who exactly would be funding these people that want to persuade us of a non-existent global warming? The liberal media and flag burning hippie homo satanists. Their poltical influence is no match for the likes of Exxon, Chevron, and Mobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 well it does until you get to the last 100 years or so (which on this graph is like a millimeter). look at where the CO2 levels go up to. and look at the virtually straight up temp spike. Yes, but even then, it does not rise as sharply as it did preceeding the last two warming periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Some well known facts that everyone knows (scientist or not): Plants like CO2 Plants like warm weather Plants like rain The desert expansion theory has, thus far, only been modeled by scientists. And I can only wonder if they are funded by groups with agendas. Just like other studies are swayed by people with opposing views. I'm sorry, CW, but this is so primitively simplistic I find it hard to believe you're not just well, i do think to some extent cod is being a bit simplistic. and there is no doubt that continued increasing temperatures is bad for human civilization...what with the rising sea level, drastically changing weather patterns and the like. but the simple scientific truth is that, overall, there WILL be a lot more water in the air. and this means that, overall, it WILL rain more. and plant life IS likely to flourish (to the extent humans don't counteract it). yeah, some places will get drier, some wetter, most places will get hotter and probably a few get colder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Yes, but even then, it does not rise as sharply as it did preceeding the last two warming periods. Look at the very very very very very very very very last part of the graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Yes, but even then, it does not rise as sharply as it did preceeding the last two warming periods. i think you're missing something. see where the CO2 goes from 285 to 377 (the previous high from the last 400,000 years being less than 300)? then see where the temp spikes in a straight vertical line from ~13.5 to ~14.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Yes, but even then, it does not rise as sharply as it did preceeding the last two warming periods. Perch, look for the 377 in the black box top right and realize that it's the last point on the graph. There's nothing natural about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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