theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Guy getting Hass is helped this year.The guy getting Maroney and Norwood gets helped next year and the year after....how can you honestly not see that?!?!?!it is VERY CLEAR!! I suppose you have put on your psychic hat for that bit of advice, i can not see into the future like you, but thanks for sharing your opinon of the trade, but i have my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) TOS- First off, I've been the Commish of my local league for 17 years now. And your interpretation of the rules is 100% wrong and I'll attempt to explain it, again. By you using your 'judgement' to determine whether a trade is allowed or not, sets the wrong precedent. You are saying that all trades will be examined by me to see if they're fair before I allow them. In essance, saying that all trades get a NO vote until I give it a YES vote. That is wrong. Your job as Commish is NOT to protect owners from being stupid. Stupidity is an opinion. Your role as Commish is to defend the league against cheating owners. Period. All trades should be a YES unless and until you as Commish can prove that one or more owners are attempting to cheat. You are not smarter than the other owners just because you have the title of Commish, therefore your interpretation of what is fair and what is not is irrelevant. As long as both owners know who they are trading, who they are trading for, and can explain to you why they are trading them, you must allow a trade. If you disagree with one owners opinion of a players future value, that means nothing. You have over-stepped your job as Commish. Period. Edited August 20, 2006 by Bring Back Pat!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Henry, Chris WR CIN Jacobs, Brandon RB NYG Maroney, Laurence RB NE Norwood, Jerious RB ATL FOR Droughns, Reuben RB CLE Hasselbeck, Matt QB SEA Houshmandzadeh, T.J. WR CIN Taylor, Fred RB JAC This is a $150 keeper league, you can keep up to 3 RB and 3 WR's . I have contacted both owners and the owner that is obvioulsy getting the far shorter end of the stick imo, says he's not going to be able to compete this season with Taylor and Droughns as his starters, so he wants to build for the future. I feel this trade is not even close to being fair and i know if/when i process it, i'm going to get some MAJOR smackback. What should i do? 1. Process it and explain to the league i spoke with both owners and the owner getting you short end is well aware he's getting shafted. 2. Post the trade in our forum and allow other owners to make this guy a better offer. 3. Reject the offer and tell the owners it's far too lopsided and would make the league too unbalanced. Please help, i do not like to rejects any trade in money leagues with competent owners, but this is a little different. I did not read this thread other than your post, so if this suggestion has already been offered, I apologize in advance......... We have a 48 hr counter rule in our leagues. Accepted trades are posted and all owners have 48 hours to send a counter proposal to EITHER participant in the trade. This provides a checks and balance system to prevent collusion. Any owner who wants to complain simply can counter. If a counter is accepted, the 48 hr period starts all over again. If counters that are better are rejected, then we look at collusion, which in my 10 years in 4 leagues w/many of the same guys crossing over between leagues, has NEVER happened. The only negative is when two owners work for a long time behind the scenes negotiating a trade, the participant who gets left out in the cold when the other one accepts the counter sometimes gets upset. I don't think anyone has quit a league over though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 TOS- First off, I've been the Commish of my local league for 17 years now. And your interpretation of the rules is 100% wrong and I'll attempt to explain it, again. By you using your 'judgement' to determine whether a trade is allowed or not, sets the wrong precedent. Okay, let me understand this, if i use my judgement to approve this trade, I'M WRONG! If i use my judgement to determine this trade is not, I'M WRONG! I guess i should put it to a league vote if i can't decide..........OH YES ! I did that already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 If counters that are better are rejected, then we look at collusion, which in my 10 years in 4 leagues w/many of the same guys crossing over between leagues, has NEVER happened. The only negative is when two owners work for a long time behind the scenes negotiating a trade, the participant who gets left out in the cold when the other one accepts the counter sometimes gets upset. I don't think anyone has quit a league over though. Nice idea, but who determines if i trade is better or not, Moses. Cause if you do, then that's your opinon and i see no difference in why you'd suggest your opinon is always right, while mine is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Okay, let me understand this, if i use my judgement to approve this trade, I'M WRONG! If i use my judgement to determine this trade is not, I'M WRONG! I guess i should put it to a league vote if i can't decide..........OH YES ! I did that already OK, I love people that read one line of a post and then respond to it... But, IT"S NOT UP TO YOU TO APPROVE A TRADE BASED ON YOUR JUDGEMENT!! It's up to you to only disallow a trade, and to do that you MUST be able to prove cheating!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I suppose you have put on your psychic hat for that bit of advice, i can not see into the future like you, but thanks for sharing your opinon of the trade, but i have my own. 226 posts in and that was the sorriest I've seen.As long as you've been around FF you have to see that getting those two young RB's helps that team.Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 OK, I love people that read one line of a post and then respond to it... But, IT"S NOT UP TO YOU TO APPROVE A TRADE BASED ON YOUR JUDGEMENT!! It's up to you to only disallow a trade, and to do that you MUST be able to prove cheating!! Okay, now i'm really confused, my rules say nothing about this, in fact my rules say i can disallow a trade that i feel doensn't benefit both teams..............that has nothing to do with cheating, just my opinon. Now you may disagree with this rule as i do, BUT i am using it as written. Where on earth did you see i could only turn down a suspected cheat, did you assume this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 226 posts in and that was the sorriest I've seen.As long as you've been around FF you have to see that getting those two young RB's helps that team.Give me a break. Okay sorry my opinon varies from yours, i must be wrong and you must be right, what was i thinking, i'm trading LJ and SA for Maroney right away cause the prophet says they will be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 I think it's time i tell you this was a test, only a test. The comments you've seen and heard have been prefabricated for this purpose. Please do not call 911, as this test is concluding. All questions related to this test may be forwarded to our mailbox. Thank You and enjoy your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Okay, let me understand this, if i use my judgement to approve this trade, I'M WRONG! If i use my judgement to determine this trade is not, I'M WRONG! I guess i should put it to a league vote if i can't decide..........OH YES ! I did that already You shouldn't be deciding, that's the point. A BringBack noted, it's your job as a COMMISH to only act if there are cheatign owners, not what YOU percieve as stupid (which I don't get either, as it's a keeper league and you are stopping a team from planning on it's future and another from planing on it's present). It sounds to me like you are looking out for your own interests, and that's my opinion. But my opinion doesn't screw 2 other owners from somethign they both agreed upon and what no other owner but you complained about. As an owner in that league I would be concerned with your integrity, honest guy or not. this decision could raise questions in others minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 You shouldn't be deciding, that's the point. A BringBack noted, it's your job as a COMMISH to only act if there are cheatign owners, not what YOU percieve as stupid (which I don't get either, as it's a keeper league and you are stopping a team from planning on it's future and another from planing on it's present). It sounds to me like you are looking out for your own interests, and that's my opinion. But my opinion doesn't screw 2 other owners from somethign they both agreed upon and what no other owner but you complained about. As an owner in that league I would be concerned with your integrity, honest guy or not. this decision could raise questions in others minds. TESTing TESTing 1-2-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) TOS ... we all know it is a matter of opinion, nobody is arguing that point. Where you have err'ed is making your opinon paramount to all others in your league. Any set of rules based on the subjective opinion of any owner is flawed. You should work to make your rules more objective in nature. Of course I believe this will never happen in your league as it appears you like having the "power" to control your league. How will you compensate these owners if a year from now it looks like it was a good trade after all. This IS collusion, you and 9 other owners are colluding. Edited August 20, 2006 by Grits and Shins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I think it's time i tell you this was a test, only a test. The comments you've seen and heard have been prefabricated for this purpose. Please do not call 911, as this test is concluding. All questions related to this test may be forwarded to our mailbox. Thank You and enjoy your day. Lame. Nice way to back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 You've still to answer my question. Does or doesn't your league have commisioners that review and accept your trades? When you answer yes, face the fact your a hypocrit This was no sid to me. however, these are the trade rules from Bling Bling, a long running BOTH league Commished by Caveman Nick, which I am a member of and contains respected huddlers like Los Gigantes, Menudo, Mad Cowz and TDFFFreak, among others: 14. Trades between managers: Trading is liberally allowed. If a trade is considered by three or more owners to be detrimental to the stability of the league, or a product of collusion, a vote will be held. Two thirds majority of non trading players are needed to overrule a trade. A Commish does not have the power to veto a trade and put it before a league vote, all trades will go to a league votes if enough owners feel strongly about it, but it's not up for veto by the Commish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I think it's time i tell you this was a test, only a test. The comments you've seen and heard have been prefabricated for this purpose. Please do not call 911, as this test is concluding. All questions related to this test may be forwarded to our mailbox. Thank You and enjoy your day. You are going to pull your hamstring with all that back pedaling. I call bullmanure, you are trying to save face now and it ain't gonna work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 You are going to pull your hamstring with all that back pedaling. I call bullmanure, you are trying to save face now and it ain't gonna work Yes your right! My brothers popeye and slammers are very angry with my decision. I think i will allow this trade now as they are getting upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 This was no sid to me. however, these are the trade rules from Bling Bling, a long running BOTH league Commished by Caveman Nick, which I am a member of and contains respected huddlers like Los Gigantes, Menudo, Mad Cowz and TDFFFreak, among others: 14. Trades between managers: Trading is liberally allowed. If a trade is considered by three or more owners to be detrimental to the stability of the league, or a product of collusion, a vote will be held. Two thirds majority of non trading players are needed to overrule a trade. A Commish does not have the power to veto a trade and put it before a league vote, all trades will go to a league votes if enough owners feel strongly about it, but it's not up for veto by the Commish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 TOS You and I are both in 32HomARRRRRRs. Could you please show me in the rules where the Commish has the ability to veto trades: "Hello everybody, I come in peace. I believe this is everything. Please correct anything I might have misinterpreted. Roster Requirements Starters – 8 Players 1 Quarterback TMQB 1 Running Back 2 Wide Receivers 1 Tight End 1 Flex (WR/RB/TE) 1 Kicker TMPK - Homer 1 Defense TMDT – Homer Bench – 10 Players Trades and Free Agent Acquisitions Every owner will be allowed 3 transactions every week. Both Free Agent acquisitions and trades are considered transactions. A single trade involving multiple players is considered one transaction. Trades The trading period begins at the conclusion of week 1 of the NFL regular season and continues through the conclusion of the NFL’s week 10. Any owner can trade with any other owner Monday through Thursday but a trade cannot put an owner above the 18-man roster maximum. (i.e. an owner must rid himself of a player if he expects to get two players for one. This can often be done by trading a scrub to the other owner in addition to the desired player). Free Agency Waiver rules, worst to first. Up to three rounds. Scoring Quarterbacks Points Category 4 Per Touchdown 2 Per 2 Point Conversion .02 Per Yard (Passing, Receiving and Rushing) 1 Per Completion -.5 Per Attempt -2 Per Interception -2 Per Fumble Lost 2 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 30 and 39 Yards 3 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 40 and 49 Yards 4 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 50 and 54 Yards 5 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 55 and 59 Yards 6 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 60 and 64 Yards 7 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 65 and 69 Yards 8 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 70 and 100 Yards Running Backs Points Category 6 Per Touchdown 2 Per 2 Point Conversion .05 Per Yard (Passing, Receiving and Rushing) .6 Per Reception -2 Per Fumble Lost 2 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 20 and 29 Yards 3 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 30 and 39 Yards 4 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 40 and 44 Yards 5 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 45 and 49 Yards 6 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 50 and 54 Yards 7 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 55 and 59 Yards 8 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 60 and 100 Yards Tight Ends Points Category 6 Per Touchdown 2 Per 2 Point Conversion .07 Per Yard (Passing, Receiving and Rushing) .6 Per Reception -2 Per Fumble Lost 2 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 20 and 29 Yards 3 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 30 and 39 Yards 4 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 40 and 44 Yards 5 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 45 and 49 Yards 6 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 50 and 54 Yards 7 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 55 and 59 Yards 8 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 60 and 100 Yards Wide Receiver Points Category 6 Per Touchdown 2 Per 2 Point Conversion .05 Per Yard (Passing, Receiving and Rushing) .5 Per Reception -2 Per Fumble Lost 2 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 30 and 39 Yards 3 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 40 and 49 Yards 4 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 50 and 54 Yards 5 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 55 and 59 Yards 6 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 60 and 64 Yards 7 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 65 and 69 Yards 8 Bonus Points for Touchdowns between 70 and 100 Yards Kickers Points Category 1 Per PAT 3 For Field Goal up to 29 Yards 4 For Field Goals of 30-39 Yards 5 For Field Goals of 40-49 Yards 6 For Field Goals of 50 Yards or More Defense / Special Teams Points Category 6 Per Touchdown 4 Per Safety 2 Per Fumble Recovery 2 Per Interception 1 Per Sack 10 Shutout (Offensive points only) 5 Holding Opponent to: 1 to 9 points (Offensive points only) 3 Holding Opponent to: 10 to 13 points (Offensive points only) 1 Holding Opponent to: 14 to 20 points (Offensive points only) 0 Holding Opponent to: 21 to 29 points (Offensive points only) -2 Holding Opponent to: 30 to 37 points (Offensive points only) -4 Holding Opponent to: 38 to 44 points (Offensive points only) -6 Holding Opponent to: 45 points or more (Offensive points only) Homer Selections Homer TMDT & TMPK are assigned. Pre-Draft First Round for the pre-draft: Each team has been awarded a $36 salary cap. A team can up to five (5) homers without going over the salary cap. Here’s a list of draft_values. Second Round for the pre-draft: Teams that chose up to 4 players and have over $5 will have the opportunity to select another player (only one more) with a value not to exceed $10. If a team has over $10 left over, they can only still select a player $10 or less. Draft Draft_Order 18 Rounds (7 Homer players quota, includes TMDT & TM PK) Payouts $25 from each Team (32) - that gives us $800. $100 between MFL and the pay pal fees (unless a league this big costs more) leaves us with $700 I imagine that we'd follow regular NFL rules for playoffs, starting in week 13.... $350 for Superbowl Winner $150 for Superbowl Loser $50 for Conference Champ losers ($100 total) $25 for Division/Wildcard Round Losers ($100 total) Schedule Schedule League Communication 32 HomARRRRRRs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Thursday but a trade cannot put an owner above the 18-man roster maximum. (i.e. an owner must rid himself of a player if he expects to get two players for one. This can often be done by trading a scrub to the other owner in addition to the desired player). i'm assuming if someone trades to put them above the 18 man roster, the commish would veto, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) i'm assuming if someone trades to put them above the 18 man roster, the commish would veto, correct? Not really a veto when someone violates a rule. Rule says you can't go over 18 players. So you want to argue semantics. Where does it say a Commish can veto a trade if he alone feels it is unfair? Edited August 20, 2006 by Bring Back Pat!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Nice idea, but who determines if i trade is better or not, Moses. Cause if you do, then that's your opinon and i see no difference in why you'd suggest your opinon is always right, while mine is wrong. Because of the system Pharoah, no trade has been voided due to collusion...if it isn't countered, its been tough luck for the rest of the league. I only put in the above comment because it is in our rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadwolf Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Quite the post. I made it through about 4 pages and I gave up. TOS, you'll run the league the way you see fit, and since you have the power to veto trades, you can do so without breaking the rules rather as a fellow commish I agree with your rules or not. That said, you should let this trade go. IMO, and that's where the problem is, it's based on opinion, this trade is perfectly fair when you look at what both owners are trying to do. I don't want to dump on ya, but if I was new to this league and you blocked such a trade, I'd likely leave. In the end, right or wrong, you need to let owners manage their team as they see fit, unless there is strong evidence of cheating, which I don't see here. And trust me, a few bad trades by an owner is the quickest way to make them a better owner/trader later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 You shouldn't be deciding, that's the point. A BringBack noted, it's your job as a COMMISH to only act if there are cheatign owners, not what YOU percieve as stupid (which I don't get either, as it's a keeper league and you are stopping a team from planning on it's future and another from planing on it's present). Completely agree here. There is nothing wrong with this trade and it should go through. As a commissioner, your only job is to uphold the integrity of the league. Bad trades do not call the leagues integrity or that of the owners, into question. Collusion, lying, and cheating do. That is your job. Not to protect people from acting in the best interests of their team -- this year or next -- or from their own stupidity. TOS, this is the second time in the past two weeks that your judgment has been called into question. I hate seeing someone ripped and get defensive on the board, so maybe you should NOT post these "issues" down the road. Having said that, best of luck to you this season...at this rate you're in for a long one my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Okay then now that we understand it together, here's my ruling. I DON'T THINK THE TRADE IS FAIR That's my opinon, what's yours............ah!! I see, because your opinon differs from mine, you MUST be right But your opinion is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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