keggerz Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 13 games left, can he pull it off? i know McGuire and Bonds tore the record down* but as a sacred sorta barometer can Howard pull it off? *I honestly cant remember what game those guys hit their 61st in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I don't know exactly what game Bonds hit is 62 but I do know he only himself played in 153 games in 2001 when he hit 73 so u can use that as a barometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegFuJohnson Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 And Maris probably used greenies in 1961 (like a lot of the league) and those are now banned substances, so might as well go back to Babe Ruth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 13 games left, can he pull it off? i know McGuire and Bonds tore the record down* but as a sacred sorta barometer can Howard pull it off? *I honestly cant remember what game those guys hit their 61st in not likely.4 walks last night. LET HIM SWING THE BAT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanxbolts Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 i agree - if howard hits over 61 this year - he is the legit single season holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 i agree - if howard hits over 61 this year - he is the legit single season holder It'd still be Bonds. Baseball has allowed steroids to get such a hold on the game that there are substances players can take that they STILL don't have tests for, so who's to say Howard isn't juiced himself. It sucks, but that's reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 not likely.4 walks last night. LET HIM SWING THE BAT!!!! This is one major aspect of baseball that I don't like. But the only thing you can do is have the 2nd hottest hitter on the team right behind him in the lineup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cherni Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 (edited) It'd still be Bonds. Baseball has allowed steroids to get such a hold on the game that there are substances players can take that they STILL don't have tests for, so who's to say Howard isn't juiced himself. It sucks, but that's reality. I completely agree. Until there is a comprehensive HGH test and tests in place for designer "cocktail" steroids there are no legitimate records. IMO Maris still owns the record. And it's funny how some people play the steroid card for people they don't like, and don't use the same logic when dealing with players they like, such as Yanxbolts in his steroid accusation of Beltran. While Howard gets a free pass even though he's having a season that few duplicated. The only players to have seasons like he's having were Sosa, Bonds, Big Mac. IMO it's much more likely that Howard is on the juice considering the company he is in. Not to mention that he's been in the minors for a long time where steroids are rampant and players will do ANYTHING to give them the ticket to the bigs. So Beltran has hit 39 HR, he must be on the juice, but Howard and his 56 HR's are natural. 16 homers last year he'll hit over 40 this year - wow - that's miraculous - it shows you how much of a difference steroids makes Edited September 11, 2006 by Cherni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 I completely agree. Until there is a comprehensive HGH test and tests in place for designer "cocktail" steroids there are no legitimate records. IMO Maris still owns the record. And it's funny how some people play the steroid card for people they don't like, and don't use the same logic when dealing with players they like, such as Yanxbolts in his steroid accusation of Beltran. While Howard gets a free pass even though he's having a season that few duplicated. The only players to have seasons like he's having were Sosa, Bonds, Big Mac. IMO it's much more likely that Howard is on the juice considering the company he is in. Not to mention that he's been in the minors for a long time where steroids are rampant and players will do ANYTHING to give them the ticket to the bigs. So Beltran has hit 39 HR, he must be on the juice, but Howard and his 56 HR's are natural. I can understand why people would think, "he was in the minors where steroids run rampant" part. But thats where a little back up information is needed to clear things up. Ryan Howard has 2 brothers, one twin and a younger one. His twin brother is BIGGER than he is and the younger brother is 6'8" 280lbs. Neither one of them are professional athletes. I think that just goes to show he is a big man from a big family who just happens to know how to hit a baseball. I mean just look it up, Howard hit a 430' homer when he was 12, was he juicing then???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 I can understand why people would think, "he was in the minors where steroids run rampant" part. But thats where a little back up information is needed to clear things up. Ryan Howard has 2 brothers, one twin and a younger one. His twin brother is BIGGER than he is and the younger brother is 6'8" 280lbs. Neither one of them are professional athletes. I think that just goes to show he is a big man from a big family who just happens to know how to hit a baseball. I mean just look it up, Howard hit a 430' homer when he was 12, was he juicing then???? The state of the game and it's testing policy render all of that very irrelevant. Plus, I don't see how what he achieved as a 12 year old is in any way relevent to what he is doing as an adult in MLB. He's putting together a great season, it's a shame it'll always be questioned and will remain a sad commentary that it isn't his fault he'll be followed with questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 People are saying, "look at the homers he's hitting and how big he is, he must be on roids". The comment bout him bein 12 is totally relevant cause if he is hitting log bombs then, it goes to show he's been doing it a long time, and it just didn't arise this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 People are saying, "look at the homers he's hitting and how big he is, he must be on roids". The comment bout him bein 12 is totally relevant cause if he is hitting log bombs then, it goes to show he's been doing it a long time, and it just didn't arise this year. A friend of mine once hit a 450 foot shot in High School for a record that still stands, and he wasn't even drafted. It means nothing. http://sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/448940 His major and minor league stats don't show a proclivity for hitting in the amount that he is now. It doesn't mean he's juiced, but unless he hit 85 homers as a 12 year old in one season please don't try to use what he did as a kid as an example of how he might surpass Roger Maris' record. That's silly. The fact of the matter is, in today's game his accomplishment is going to be clouded in suspicion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 A friend of mine once hit a 450 foot shot in High School for a record that still stands, and he wasn't even drafted. It means nothing. http://sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/448940 His major and minor league stats don't show a proclivity for hitting in the amount that he is now. It doesn't mean he's juiced, but unless he hit 85 homers as a 12 year old in one season please don't try to use what he did as a kid as an example of how he might surpass Roger Maris' record. That's silly. The fact of the matter is, in today's game his accomplishment is going to be clouded in suspicion. unless you're pretty old,your friend used an aluminum bat,and if you're pretty young,it was probly a double wall.HUGH difference here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 unless you're pretty old,your friend used an aluminum bat,and if you're pretty young,it was probly a double wall.HUGH difference here. It was probably aluminum, but that's irrelevant to my point: adolescent achievements mean very little on the Major League level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cherni Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I can understand why people would think, "he was in the minors where steroids run rampant" part. But thats where a little back up information is needed to clear things up. Ryan Howard has 2 brothers, one twin and a younger one. His twin brother is BIGGER than he is and the younger brother is 6'8" 280lbs. Neither one of them are professional athletes. I think that just goes to show he is a big man from a big family who just happens to know how to hit a baseball. I mean just look it up, Howard hit a 430' homer when he was 12, was he juicing then???? I agree with the above post that what he did when he was 12 means nothing, also the stature of his brothers means nothing to to me either. If he did this clean then I'll tip my cap but unfortunately for most baseball purists out there, Roger Maris is the single season HR leader and will continue to be until there is a comprehensive test for HGH and designer cocktails. If he's clean it's just crappy timing and it sucks for him but few will consider anyone from this era to be the record holder with all this junk going around. It's nothing personal towards him or you PhilliesPhan, but no one can be trusted these days. It's a sad state of affairs, players and fans alike are feeling the shock waves of what has happened over the past 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 (edited) His major and minor league stats don't show a proclivity for hitting in the amount that he is now. I don't feel you researched this statement at all, in 2004 between AA,AAA, and Majors he hit a combined 48 HR's in 150 games. In 2005 between AAA and majors he hit 38 in 149 games. So its not like he has never hit any homers, he's having a superb year. We all know that as hitters mature especially good ones, they are going to get better. Yeah I also agree that Maris is going to be the HR king to most baseball purists. But even Maris' sons are starting to concede that if Howard dos it they will consider him the new king. If its good enough for them, its good enough for me. Edited September 12, 2006 by PhilliesPhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cherni Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I don't feel you researched this statement at all, in 2004 between AA,AAA, and Majors he hit a combined 48 HR's in 150 games. In 2005 between AAA and majors he hit 38 in 149 games. So its not like he has never hit any homers, he's having a superb year. We all know that as hitters mature especially good ones, they are going to get better. Yeah I also agree that Maris is going to be the HR king to most baseball purists. But even Maris' sons are starting to concede that if Howard dos it they will consider him the new king. If its good enough for them, its good enough for me. Players mature, of course and he's in the prime of his career right now. No one here is saying he's not a good player, the point, at least my point is that until there's a test he's going to have a shadow over his accomplishments. Maris' sons can think whatever they want I don't get your logic there. The fact that they would concede the title to Howard is a non-factor IMO and silly to even be brought up. What are they going to say? Ryan Howard is on steroids? They're not going to say what they really think in public, that wouldn't be in their best interests or the interests of MLB. I respect their father and if he said the same thing it would be different, but who are they? They're no one IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I don't feel you researched this statement at all, in 2004 between AA,AAA, and Majors he hit a combined 48 HR's in 150 games. In 2005 between AAA and majors he hit 38 in 149 games. So its not like he has never hit any homers, he's having a superb year. We all know that as hitters mature especially good ones, they are going to get better. Yeah I also agree that Maris is going to be the HR king to most baseball purists. But even Maris' sons are starting to concede that if Howard dos it they will consider him the new king. If its good enough for them, its good enough for me. Well, if you aren't using his stats as a teenager to explain a run at maris' record then I have proved my point. There are MANY MANY examples of players who tear up the minors, but cannot translate to MLB. Howard is not a AAAA player obviously, but again his solid HR production against inferior pitching in no way means he was primed to do what he's done. And again, I'm not saying he's juiced - I tend to doubt it - but you cannot say for sure he is clean either, and unfortunately that is the reality of the game at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 His major and minor league stats don't show a proclivity for hitting in the amount that he is now. Here's what you said and I proved that he has hit them in the MINORS. And how can he have any major league stats?? Considering this is his FIRST full season. When he won ROY last year he only played 88 games and hit 22. Thats one every 4 games, or over a full season projects to 40. So its obvious his HR total this year didn't just come from nowhere. He has been hitting them at every level, isn't that what you said, he's never hit them??? Well, if you aren't using his stats as a teenager to explain a run at maris' record then I have proved my point. Proved what point, you haven't proven anything other than the fact you are uninformed and not reading what YOU wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 the stature of his brothers means nothing to to me either. If he did this clean then I'll tip my cap but unfortunately for most baseball purists out there, Roger Maris is the single season HR leader and will continue to be until there is a comprehensive test for HGH and designer cocktails. If he's clean it's just crappy timing and it sucks for him but few will consider anyone from this era to be the record holder with all this junk going around. It's nothing personal towards him or you PhilliesPhan, but no one can be trusted these days. It's a sad state of affairs, players and fans alike are feeling the shock waves of what has happened over the past 10 years. See I think the stature of immediate family members is somewhat relevant. You are sayin he is clouded in suspicion because of all the HGH and other things out there that cannot be traced. I understand this. But you take these things to get BIGGER AND STRONGER. If his family members are all big people, its pretty much a safe assumption that he would be naturally big too. I know there is cases where someone in the family is much bigger than the rest or smaller than the rest. I am just stating this cause it makes perfect sense. My whole family is short, guess what, SO AM I. We all know Barry Bonds, Mark Mcgwire and them were smaller in the beginning of their careers and got much bigger because of the chemicals they were ingesting. I am just sayin that if a man has been big all his life, how does that anyway mean he's on the juice. I know that I don't know whether or not hes clean, but can't for just maybe once can't somebody get the benefit of the doubt. If he was as big as he is now and only had 40 HR's would we still be having this conversation? I mean noone ever doubts Thome, hes pretty big too. Or how bout Griffey, he was smaller but does that mean he wasn't juicing? With them it was just talent. How come Howard can't just be BIG AND TALENTED??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Ryan Howard and Frank Thomas are just Beasts of mean. Both are huge and are obviously strong. The point being made about Howard when he was 12,is to show how strong he was back then before there was any suspicion of roids. Howard can miss hit a ball and it go out, where some players have to crush one to get it out. To say Howard is on steroids is a joke. There have been testing in the minors for years, for everything but HGH, and I doubt Howard used HGH, considering that drug cost more than he made in the minors. Howard is the real deal, and Im glad to see the expansion of young players taking over the game like Pujols, Howard, D Wright and Reyes. Edited September 13, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 To say Howard is on steroids is a joke. There have been testing in the minors for years, for everything but HGH, and I doubt Howard used HGH, considering that drug cost more than he made in the minors. Howard is the real deal, and Im glad to see the expansion of young players taking over the game like Pujols, Howard, D Wright and Reyes. On point- Howard was tested much more rigorously in the minors than any of these guys in the bigs- so if anyone is NOT on anything, Howard has to be given the benfit of the doubt. Guy is destroying the NL. From ESPN.... Since the All-Star break, Howard would be your basic Octuple Crown winner. He leads his league in batting, homers, RBI, walks, intentional walks, slugging, on-base percentage and total bases. And we haven't even mentioned his outrageous second-half OPS (on-base plus slugging) of 1.347. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, that would be the highest second-half OPS in the entire division-play era (1969-2006) by any player not named Barry Bonds. Bonds topped 1.400 in 2001, '02 and '04. But no other player in that era has even reached 1.300. The closest was 1.267, by the ever-lovable Albert Belle in 1998. SINCE THE ALL-STAR BREAK AVG HR RBI OBP SLG Ryan Howard .374 28 67 .510 .837 - effing ridiculous Albert Pujols .332 16 44 .415 .645 Miguel Cabrera .346 10 48 .425 .607 Lance Berkman .288 15 41 .421 .606 Carlos Beltran .290 15 46 .386 .634 Pujols is a stud, but this is Howards year and he deserves the MVP. So sick of this having to make the playoffs BS... how can any one player be doing more for his club than Howard?? it isn't possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesPhan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Finally 2 people who are willing to give a guy the benefit of the doubt instead of bashing them for doing something that is totally possible to be done without roids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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