cliaz Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/09/20/preem...s.ap/index.html INDIANAPOLIS, Indiana (AP) -- A third premature infant has died after being accidentally given an adult-sized dose of a blood thinner medication at a hospital last week. "We are all saddened by this news and our hearts are with this family, and all the families who have been affected," Methodist Hospital spokesman Jon Mills said in a news release Wednesday. The latest death came late Tuesday at Riley Hospital for Children where the infant was transferred after being born at Methodist. Two girls less than a week old died Saturday at Methodist's Neonatal Intensive Care Unit after being given adult doses of heparin, which is often used to prevent blood clots that could clog intravenous tubes. Three other babies were still being treated after being given too powerful a dose of the drug, which a pharmacy technician accidentally stored in the care unit's drug cabinet. The hospital will offer to pay for family counseling and provide restitution to all six families affected, said Sam Odle, president and CEO of Methodist Hospital, which is part of Clarian Health Partners. "We are acutely aware that nothing can adequately compensate these families for their loss," Odle said. Since the overdoses, the hospital has taken steps to ensure the mistake does not happen again. It will no longer keep certain doses of heparin in inventory, and all newborn and pediatric critical care units will require a minimum of two nurses to validate any dose of heparin, said Odle. It is not the first time the hospital has administered an overdose of the drug, Odle said. A similar overdose of heparin was given to two patients in the hospital's Pediatric Intensive Care Unit in 2001. Both recovered, he said. Staff members involved with Saturday's mistake were receiving counseling and taking time off until they felt comfortable returning to work, hospital officials said. Deb Hutchens, a neonatal nurse practitioner, said nurses were devastated. "We all feel very deep sorrow. It's just going to be a very long healing process for all of us," she said. I can't even imagine being one of those parents. Worst off are the RNs that gave them the shots, they have to carry this with them forever. This is just terrible on every level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 A terrible tragedy, I agree. My heart goes out to everyone involved. Not to diminish the situation above, but I'm trying to figure out why the accidental death of a premature infant is such a terrible event, when the intentional partial birth abortion of an infant at the exact same stage of development as this child is legal & vehemently defended by some factions in this country. Seems like it is the same devastating outcome, but one was accidental while the other was intentional... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampnuts Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 A terrible tragedy, I agree. My heart goes out to everyone involved. Not to diminish the situation above, but I'm trying to figure out why the accidental death of a premature infant is such a terrible event, when the intentional partial birth abortion of an infant at the exact same stage of development as this child is legal & vehemently defended by some factions in this country. Seems like it is the same devastating outcome, but one was accidental while the other was intentional... Your statement does diminish the situation above, so be quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Your statement does diminish the situation above, so be quiet. I want to be sure that I understand your position on this. You agree that a premature infant being accidentally killed as described above is a terribly tragic situation, but you apparently think that an infant at the same stage of development inside their mother having their brain intentionally sucked out, skull crushed, and then being dismembered, which perfectly legal in the United States, is definitely not more tragic and certainly not relevant given the story above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I want to be sure that I understand your position on this. You agree that a premature infant being accidentally killed as described above is a terribly tragic situation, but you apparently think that an infant at the same stage of development inside their mother having their brain intentionally sucked out, skull crushed, and then being dismembered, which perfectly legal in the United States, is definitely not more tragic and certainly not relevant given the story above? wow way to spin that on todo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 alright stop it. don't turn this thread into a debate about abortion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Since the overdoses, the hospital has taken steps to ensure the mistake does not happen again. It will no longer keep certain doses of heparin in inventory, and all newborn and pediatric critical care units will require a minimum of two nurses to validate any dose of heparin, said Odle. this is what pisses me off!!! shouldnt these safe guards be in place before this happens. dont these hospitals look at every single possible thing that could go wrong. these are human beings. there should be double checking, triple checking of everything!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 A terrible tragedy, I agree. My heart goes out to everyone involved. Not to diminish the situation above, but I'm trying to figure out why the accidental death of a premature infant is such a terrible event, when the intentional partial birth abortion of an infant at the exact same stage of development as this child is legal & vehemently defended by some factions in this country. Seems like it is the same devastating outcome, but one was accidental while the other was intentional... I hold the belief that the procedure you mentioned should only be done in dire emergencies. So, when it happens - I agree, that it is a tragedy. Heck, any abortion (whether you are pro-choice or anti-choice) is a tragedy. Heck of a place for a soapbox, BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Precisely why me and my babymomma chose home birth with a midwife. It is amazing how many unnessecary medical proceedures that parents are told are nessecary. We gave birth to a healthy girl about 3 months ago and she is the apitimy(sp) of health (i thank my stars every day for a whole child that will have the opprotunity to experience every beautiful and spiritual gifts) Edited September 20, 2006 by DemonKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) I hold the belief that the procedure you mentioned should only be done in dire emergencies. So, when it happens - I agree, that it is a tragedy. Heck, any abortion (whether you are pro-choice or anti-choice) is a tragedy. Heck of a place for a soapbox, BB I think it is absolutely the right place to discuss the abhorent & barbaric procedure of partial birth abortions. The infants being killed are at the same stage as many premature babies like the one above that died as the result of a terrible accident. What I don't understand is that we all see the situation above as a terrible tragedy, yet every day we as Americans legally allow infants of the same state of development to be killed on purpose. Why isn't that even more horrible than what happened above? It's done with our grace & permission as opposed to being a tragic accident. And for the record - I am actually pro-abortion, but under limited circumstances. My intention isn't to put forth an anti-abortion position. It is to put forth an anti-partial birth abortion position. The procedure is heinous & as a civilized society I fail to be amazed every day that we still allow this to happen in this country. And the threatens-the-life-of-the-mother argument isn't valid. Almost every doctor interviewed have stated that at this stage in the pregnancy given the advanced medical knowledge, the life of the mother is almost literally never at risk. Edited September 20, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Bronco Billy you know i respect you, you are old school huddler and one of the many personalities of this place and in enjoy your threads and post a lot. That being said I think you hijacking this thread and using it as a platform on abortion was classless. Three infants died because of human error that could have been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 And for the record - I am actually pro-abortion, but under limited circumstances. My intention isn't to put forth an anti-abortion position. It is to put forth an anti-partial birth abortion position. The procedure is heinous & as a civilized society I fail to be amazed every day that we still allow this to happen in this country. And the threatens-the-life-of-the-mother argument isn't valid. Almost every doctor interviewed have stated that at this stage in the pregnancy given the advanced medical knowledge, the life of the mother is almost literally never at risk. i can't resist ... under what limited circumstances are you pro-abortion? and where do you draw the cutoff for an abortion to be partial birth/premature/too old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Three infants died because of human error that could have been avoided. Hence my argument. How many more infants of the same age as those above are being killed legally every year in this country? Are those deaths less tragic or less meaningful to you, cliaz? Why are these three so much more important and so much more terrible than the infants being killed in partial-birth procedures that you would tag me classless for having the temerity to put forth that moral equation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) i can't resist ... under what limited circumstances are you pro-abortion? and where do you draw the cutoff for an abortion to be partial birth/premature/too old? I'd prefer to go to a seperate thread to discuss that, tonorator, but would be willing to engage on a seperate thread if you'd like. Edited September 20, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Hence my argument. How many more infants of the same age as those above are being killed legally every year in this country? Are those deaths less tragic or less meaningful to you, cliaz? Why are these three so much more important and so much more terrible than the infants being killed in partial-birth procedures that you would tag me classless for having the temerity to put forth that moral equation? What I think is classless about that is you are doing what politicians do every day. Use a tragedy as a platform for political discussion. It’s just my opinion and like I said it doesn’t change how I view you at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 I forgot to mention that I'm not saying your view point is wrong, classless or right. I think you have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampnuts Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I want to be sure that I understand your position on this. You agree that a premature infant being accidentally killed as described above is a terribly tragic situation, but you apparently think that an infant at the same stage of development inside their mother having their brain intentionally sucked out, skull crushed, and then being dismembered, which perfectly legal in the United States, is definitely not more tragic and certainly not relevant given the story above? I'm not saying I don't agree with you, I'm saying I think your timing sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) What I think is classless about that is you are doing what politicians do every day. Use a tragedy as a platform for political discussion. It’s just my opinion and like I said it doesn’t change how I view you at all. I appreciate that. Okay, let me make this more simple. Why did you post this article today about premature infants being accidentally killed and not post any article today, yesterday, or any previous day on an infant that is at the exact same stage of development being killed legally in a partial birth abortion? The babies that die in partial birth abortions are just as viable as the premature babies that were killed in the accidents above. Why isn't that a tragedy that you chose to post on this message board? The deaths of those babies are condoned by our society - in other words, are being killed with your, my, and every other American's permission - and yet are not only are not only not seen as being at least as tragic, but are actively ignored in this country. And my position is hardly a political stance - it's a moral stance. The only way tha becomes a political stance is if you want to discuss the pandering of a political party to simply gain votes that they would promote this horrific act - talk about selling your soul to the devil. But that is a discussion for another thread also. This has to do with moral judgment and what is being done in this country with the approval of the American people that is at least as tragic and terrible as the story above, and yet no one seems to really care. Edited September 20, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I'm not saying I don't agree with you, I'm saying I think your timing sucks. I appreciate that also, but I think my timing is exactly relevant. Read the my post immediately before this. Why aren't we as a country horrified by partial birth abortions, and in fact are so callous to them that we don't even discuss the issue prominantly and just allow the procedure to happen, yet we see the accidental deaths above as being so awful and such a great loss? Where is our outrage? That we as a country allow this to happen every day says worlds about how civilized and enlightened we really are, and where we are headed as a common people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Why did you post this article today about premature infants being accidentally killed and not post any article today, yesterday, or any previous day on an infant that is at the exact same stage of development being killed legally in a partial birth abortion? Because those articles were not on CNN this morning, yesterday or any previous day that I’ve read the website. The babies that die in partial birth abortions are just as viable as the premature babies that were killed in the accidents above. Why isn't that a tragedy that you chose to post on this message board? Because I do not push, expose, force or otherwise advertise my personal moral/political view points on abortion to the masses. The deaths of those babies are condoned by our society - in other words, are being killed with your, my, and every other American's permission - and yet are not only are not only not seen as being at least as tragic, but are actively ignored in this country. I strongly disagree with you on this point more so over that you are suggesting that I allow or give permission for the death of any infant in this country or any others through actions or lack of actions on my part and I take person offense that you would think that of me. I have never give you reason or shown a course of action that would suggest I support abortion at that stage or that I allow it. And my position is hardly a political stance - it's a moral stance. The only way that becomes a political stance is if you want to discuss the pandering of a political party to simply gain votes that they would promote this horrific act – Regardless if it’s moral or political it was injected into this thread with the same motive But that is a discussion for another thread also. This has to do with moral judgment and what is being done in this country with the approval of the American people that is at least as tragic and terrible as the story above, and yet no one seems to really care. I’m not saying you are wrong at all and I tend to agree. Edited September 20, 2006 by cliaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Where is our outrage? That we as a country allow this to happen every day says worlds about how civilized and enlightened we really are, and where we are headed as a common people. OK, the thread is offically hijacked. Good Job. Do you have foster children? Have you opened your home to any of the over 500,000 children taken from unfit parents? Have you adopted any of them? I'd wager not. Evangelists talk a good talk, but when it comes right down to putting thier money where thier mouth is, the best they can do is stand around and wave gruesome signs at teenage mothers. If you feel so strongly about it, shut the hell up and sign up to be a foster parent. Perhaps being exposed to the true Hell some of these children are forced to endure will open your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I appreciate that also, but I think my timing is exactly relevant. Read the my post immediately before this. Why aren't we as a country horrified by partial birth abortions, and in fact are so callous to them that we don't even discuss the issue prominantly and just allow the procedure to happen, yet we see the accidental deaths above as being so awful and such a great loss? Where is our outrage? That we as a country allow this to happen every day says worlds about how civilized and enlightened we really are, and where we are headed as a common people. Please provide me with some evidence concerning the number of partial birth abortions performed since 1992--when they started--which were after the end of the second trimester. I think you may be pedddling a lot of fiction here, so show me yer facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I strongly disagree with you on this point more so over that you are suggesting that I allow or give permission for the death of any infant in this country or any others through actions or lack of actions on my part and I take person offense that you would think that of me. I have never give you reason or shown a course of action that would suggest I support abortion at that stage or that I allow it. That it is legal means that we as a people condone it and allow it. That means you, it means me, and it means the rest of us collectively. That's my whole point for raising such a reprehensible issue in this thread. How do we collectively allow a partial birth procedure when we all agree that the premature babies that died accidentally as these babies did are such a horrible tragedy? How can we be so united in the issue of the accidental deaths of the premature babies in the topic thread yet allow a law for a procedure that intentionally terminates babies at the same stage of life? That moral issue isn't relevent here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 That it is legal means that we as a people condone it and allow it. That means you, it means me, and it means the rest of us collectively. That's my whole point for raising such a reprehensible issue in this thread. How do we collectively allow a partial birth procedure when we all agree that the premature babies that died accidentally as these babies did are such a horrible tragedy? How can we be so united in the issue of the accidental deaths of the premature babies in the topic thread yet allow a law for a procedure that intentionally terminates babies at the same stage of life? That moral issue isn't relevent here? We have legally killed an estimated 46,000 children under the age of 15 in Iraq. How do you feel about that, Mother Theresa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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