Mike Vick - "Screw it"

[CD6405]

...but you haven't posted anything relevant to a debate in all of your posts? You have to understand what you are arguing about before you can make a rebuttal. I haven't seen a real point in any of your posts. No stats, no facts, no information. Why should I pull out stats if you don't?

[Gunther]

Glad I didn't decide to play him, although it is still early in the game. One fumble lost and an INT already.

[tosberg34]

...but you haven't posted anything relevant to a debate in all of your posts? You have to understand what you are arguing about before you can make a rebuttal. I haven't seen a real point in any of your posts. No stats, no facts, no information. Why should I pull out stats if you don't?

 

 

here's a stat for ya: "Glad I didn't decide to play him, although it is still early in the game. One fumble lost and an INT already."

 

There is your superstar. Someday he will make it into the Hall of Shame.

[Gunther]

here's a stat for ya: "Glad I didn't decide to play him, although it is still early in the game. One fumble lost and an INT already."

 

There is your superstar. Someday he will make it into the Hall of Shame.

 

But then he went ahead and rushed for a TD to make me eat my words.

[CD6405]

here's a stat for ya: "Glad I didn't decide to play him, although it is still early in the game. One fumble lost and an INT already."

 

There is your superstar. Someday he will make it into the Hall of Shame.

 

 

 

Can anyone this already, Tosberg doesn't really make a good person to debate, I feel like I'm discussing Big Ben with a Pittsburgh fan.

[tosberg34]

Can anyone this already, Tosberg doesn't really make a good person to debate, I feel like I'm discussing Big Ben with a Pittsburgh fan.

 

 

 

that's funny because I feel like I'm talking Michael Vick with an Atlanta fan (or, as everybody else knows them, Vick Zealots).

[CD6405]

Here I'll just use Big Score 1's quote from another page:

 

Did you know that without Vick ever playing a single Pro game, the Georgia Dome has been sold out ever since he was drafted by the Falcons?

 

You do know that the Falcons winning percentage with Vick is pretty phenomenal, right?

 

Over the last four years, with Vick being the unquestioned starter, the Falcons record is 31-1-16 with him under Center.

 

During those four years, Vick only played the majority of the games for three of those four years (missed 12 games in 2003, due to a broken ankle suffered in the pre season). The Falcons beat Green Bay in a play off game at Lambeau field one of those years & got to within a game of the Super Bowl another of those years.

 

In 2003 Doug Johnson & Kurt Kittner combined for a 2-10 record. Vick came back for the last four games of 2003 & immediately rolled off three wins.

 

In 2004 & 2005 Schaub started 3 games - 2 at the end of 2004 (Play off seed wrapped up - Saints & Seahawks) & 1 against the Pats in 2005 (injury to Vick's knee).

 

All three of the Falcons games that Schaub has started, have ended up as losses.

 

 

He wins games, the end.

Edited October 15, 2006 by CD6405

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

Here I'll just use Big Score 1's quote from another page:

He wins games, the end.

 

Not this game.

[Bill Swerski]

He wins games, the end.

 

 

He doesn't win games unless his defense plays well. Today was a perfect example of that.

[Chavez]

I think it's worth noting that when Vick needed to pass to get the Falcons back in the game - no dice.

[tosberg34]

I think it's worth noting that when Vick needed to pass to get the Falcons back in the game - no dice.

 

 

Amen. Michael Vick is useless. Plain and simple. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling himself.

[CD6405]

He doesn't win games unless his defense plays well. Today was a perfect example of that.

 

 

 

I know that, but you can say that about most teams. The Colts are one that can outscore with a crappy defense and so was the old StL Rams in the 2 years they went to the superbowl. Most teams need a defense to play well to win, otherwise the other team scores points.

 

This next doesn't have anything to do with your post but i don't want to keep doing quotes:

 

I never said Vick was a great passer, Tosberg wants to keep arguing that, but I even said he's not why I said WRs would ask to be traded. Warrick Dunn fixed Tosberg's quote of saying "RB with Vick should ask to be traded" because Dunn have 146 yards and a TD.

 

Just because Vick is not a traditional pocket passer doesn't make him worthless. I guess you can say that about anyone who can move around outside the pocket. Tosberg, give me your team's QB and tell me how great he is.

 

To be honest with you all too I don't really like Atlanta or Vick, but I get tired of everyone jumping on him and TO a lot. (TO warrants it a lot, but when people got mad at him last week for wanting the ball everyone got mad, yet Edge had 30 carries and said it was "stupid" not to give him the ball in the 4th quarter.)

[Chavez]

Amen. Michael Vick is useless. Plain and simple. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling himself.

 

I don't know that I"d go that far - though watching the game today, when someone asks the question "is the problem Vick or his WRs?" I'd have to answer both - they aren't good enough to make up for his shortcomings, and he isn't a good enough passer to make them better.

[CD6405]

And tosberg, here's the definition of Quarterback:

 

quarterback:

 

Noun

Football Abbr. QB The backfield player whose position is behind the line of scrimmage and who usually calls the signals for the plays.

Verb

Inflected forms: quar·ter·backed, quar·ter·back·ing, quar·ter·backs

Verb

tr. 1. Football To direct the offense of. 2. Slang To lead or direct the operations of: "needed someone to quarterback the [brain trust] for the first U.S. ICBM program" (Forbes).

 

 

Does Vick do that? Does he line up behind the line and direct the offense?

[Chavez]

 

Just because Vick is not a traditional pocket passer doesn't make him worthless. I guess you can say that about anyone who can move around outside the pocket. Tosberg, give me your team's QB and tell me how great he is.

 

I'd agree with that - the problem with Vick is that when he HAS to pass - when the defense dictates to him that he must throw the ball - he can't be successful on a consistent basis doing so. And until that changes, I don't see Atlanta ever winning a SB with him.

[CD6405]

I'd agree with that - the problem with Vick is that when he HAS to pass - when the defense dictates to him that he must throw the ball - he can't be successful on a consistent basis doing so. And until that changes, I don't see Atlanta ever winning a SB with him.

 

 

 

I agree, either ATL has to get a big time WR or Vick needs to be a precision passer.

[tosberg34]

my QB is Brett Favre. Vick will NEVER achieve what Favre has. Favre is better than Vick even on his WORST day.

[Chavez]

Favre is better than Vick even on his WORST day.

 

Given some of Favre's implosions in the past few years, I don't know that I'd use him as an example.

[Bill Swerski]

I know that, but you can say that about most teams. The Colts are one that can outscore with a crappy defense and so was the old StL Rams in the 2 years they went to the superbowl. Most teams need a defense to play well to win, otherwise the other team scores points.

 

This next doesn't have anything to do with your post but i don't want to keep doing quotes:

 

I never said Vick was a great passer, Tosberg wants to keep arguing that, but I even said he's not why I said WRs would ask to be traded. Warrick Dunn fixed Tosberg's quote of saying "RB with Vick should ask to be traded" because Dunn have 146 yards and a TD.

 

Just because Vick is not a traditional pocket passer doesn't make him worthless. I guess you can say that about anyone who can move around outside the pocket. Tosberg, give me your team's QB and tell me how great he is.

 

To be honest with you all too I don't really like Atlanta or Vick, but I get tired of everyone jumping on him and TO a lot. (TO warrants it a lot, but when people got mad at him last week for wanting the ball everyone got mad, yet Edge had 30 carries and said it was "stupid" not to give him the ball in the 4th quarter.)

 

 

I never said that Vick was "worthless" and didn't bother readig Tosberg's posts, so I can't comment on them. However, what I will say is that the Falcons aren't going to win games in which their defense puts them down by a TD or more in the 4th quarter. While Vick can do a tremendous amount on the ground and brings an extra dimension to his offense, his inability to make big plays downfield through the air is a huge liability and is going to cost them (again) during the playoffs (if they make it that far). I think it speaks volumes that Mora and Knapp have pretty much given up on developing him as a passer and instead of supplementing the offense with a big-play WR, spent their remaining cap money on Abraham, Jackson, and Milloy. They're trying to emulate the 2000 Ravens, rather than the '94 49ers.

[tosberg34]

Even so, he still is head and shoulders above Vick on any day of the week.

[Bill Swerski]

I agree, either ATL has to get a big time WR or Vick needs to be a precision passer.

 

 

I don't think that's going to help. Notice that they passed on Javon Walker, Mushin Muhammad, Randy Moss, T.O., and several other big-name WRs that were available over the past couple of years.

 

They might be able to win with Schaub and one of the aforementioned WRs, but we'll never see that day because of Vick's huge contract and the cap hit they'd have to take if they dealt him.

[CD6405]

I don't think that's going to help. Notice that they passed on Javon Walker, Mushin Muhammad, Randy Moss, T.O., and several other big-name WRs that were available over the past couple of years.

 

They might be able to win with Schaub and one of the aforementioned WRs, but we'll never see that day because of Vick's huge contract and the cap hit they'd have to take if they dealt him.

 

 

 

The only one of those guys they would have taken would have been muhammed because he doesn't have a big head, I can't remember the owners name but he said he wouldn't take TO or Moss. Moss even had his agent call to get traded to ATL before he left minn and they told him now. Arthur Blank, thats the name. The second part of my last post wasn't to you Bill, but to tosberg.

 

I think if they had a Boldin or a Fitzgerald on their team Vick would be better. Schaub, I don't think he could do it. Not because of his talent, but because of the lack of talent on the line. That line is horrid, but only looks decent because they have a mobile QB that neutralizes the defensive rush.

[tosberg34]

The only one of those guys they would have taken would have been muhammed because he doesn't have a big head, I can't remember the owners name but he said he wouldn't take TO or Moss. Moss even had his agent call to get traded to ATL before he left minn and they told him now. Arthur Blank, thats the name. The second part of my last post wasn't to you Bill, but to tosberg.

 

I think if they had a Boldin or a Fitzgerald on their team Vick would be better. Schaub, I don't think he could do it. Not because of his talent, but because of the lack of talent on the line. That line is horrid, but only looks decent because they have a mobile QB that neutralizes the defensive rush.

 

 

have you sat back and re-read your posts? You just sound like your making excuses for his poor play. Vick is nothing more than a bad to mediocre QB on any given sunday.

[CD6405]

have you sat back and re-read your posts? You just sound like your making excuses for his poor play. Vick is nothing more than a bad to mediocre QB on any given sunday.

 

 

Oops, sorry Tosberg, let me write the definition of a QB again:

 

quarterback:

 

Noun

Football Abbr. QB The backfield player whose position is behind the line of scrimmage and who usually calls the signals for the plays.

Verb

Inflected forms: quar·ter·backed, quar·ter·back·ing, quar·ter·backs

Verb

tr. 1. Football To direct the offense of. 2. Slang To lead or direct the operations of: "needed someone to quarterback the [brain trust] for the first U.S. ICBM program" (Forbes).

[tosberg34]

Keep posting it. It's getting you nowhere. The definition you posted sounds like any monkey with a banana or even you could do it. If that is the case then Vick fits the bill. If all NFL Coaches and GM's want is a textbook definition QB, then the nfl would be pretty lame. Like Vick himself.

Edited October 15, 2006 by tosberg34