Dynasty League Integrity

[BillyBalata]

Take a 16 team league.... add in bye weeks... even some contending teams will get the short end of that stick and be stuck without a starter. Let's say you had Bledsoe and Kitna. Unless you had Romo too... yer sunk. Kitna on a bye, Bledsoe benched. That's what we are talking about here.... 16 team leagues. Only 32 starting QB's. Contending teams do have to spend extra cash/picks to have the respective backups, but that isn't always possible. It happens. I'll be putting in a bid for Batch this week.... I'm just lucky he's still available.

 

 

 

I understand there will be some times during the season where it's not feasible/possible to cover every single players bye weeks. But week after week, all year, not starting a QB?

 

 

Rules or not, doesn't sound like it should be the way to play the game.

[Rovers]

I understand there will be some times during the season where it's not feasible/possible to cover every single players bye weeks. But week after week, all year, not starting a QB?

Rules or not, doesn't sound like it should be the way to play the game.

 

 

Well, thats' the bottom line question here. In my rebuild league, I have no QB this week. If kitna gets hurt.... that's a problem. Personally, I would talk to the McCown owner, and hope to get a reasonable deal. If he wasn't reasonable... then what? I'd try to get a bad QB that would play, but if the asking prices were not reasonable.... should I screw my team to get a QB?

 

On the other hand, as I've said previously, I am more comfortable with fielding a team, so I see your point. On the flip side, I would not want to get raped to pick up a bad QB either.

 

There is something in the middle that works. What that is I think is different for each league. Rules can only be guidelines. That puts a lot of pressure on commishes. Basically, I think the rules have to be written in such a way as to allow some wiggle room, and having a co-commish as a minimum is a good start. No easy answers here....

[Sgt. Ryan]

So, in Rovers case Sarge is pleased the league did not follow the letter of their rules to help out the orphan teams, yet he is trying to PUSH the letter of the law in Keg's case to have him removed from the league.

 

Interesting.

 

 

I had no opinion either way about Rovers situation He cried like a lil b*itch and it got old fast. Keg is tanking, and I still do not want him removed from the league. I merely stated that was the penalty for breaking the rule. Fusion would never kick someone out like that. Nor would I or anyone in that league want anyone else gone.

[Big Country]

I had no opinion either way about Rovers situation He cried like a lil b*itch and it got old fast. Keg is tanking, and I still do not want him removed from the league. I merely stated that was the penalty for breaking the rule. Fusion would never kick someone out like that. Nor would I or anyone in that league want anyone else gone.

 

 

But you do not disagree that in one case you did not care whether or not the rule as written was followed, but in the other you are the one pushing for the letter of the law as you interpret it to be followed?

[Sgt. Ryan]

Well, as it happens I've turned down more than one offer to join a league that you're a member of, so you might want to wipe the smirk off your face. Despite the fact that you have a point about this situation, your way of turning a disagreement into a train wreck is...regrettable.

 

 

Im curious which league you have ever turned down to join, that I was in. Im a member of Fusion, and Co-Commish of DW II, DW III, and IDP Handbook, and the only other leagues I play on the huddle are DW and GMX, and we havent had any turnover there outside of adding Rovers and Frazia, who were recommended by me of all people. I dont recall ever inviting you to any of the leagues I Run, nor do I recall you as a serious contender to take over the spot in Fusion, as you were not even on the ballot, if I recall. I used to Commish Hannibals, and dont recall inviting you to that one either. Hmm, what am I missing here. Did Bunz ask you, and you turned her down? No offense, but if it was one of the leagues I was in, even if she asked you, you might have still been on the outside looking in, when it came time to decide on an owner. And I love Bunz to death. Greal Gal.

 

 

I didnt turn this post into a train wreck, that was done by the one who felt the need to defend his actions, when really all I wanted was opinions on the facts I laid out.

 

 

edit to add, I co-commish BCS League and you are not active in the college forum, so you wouldnt have been invited to that league, and the NO BS Hoops League, and I know I didnt invite you to that league, because I had 12 owners in less than 4 hours. Then there is Huddle on the Diamond, which Frazia Commishes, and I doubt you were invited to that league either. Im really at a loss, which league you could have been invited to, and turned down because of me.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[Sgt. Ryan]

But you do not disagree that in one case you did not care whether or not the rule as written was followed, but in the other you are the one pushing for the letter of the law as you interpret it to be followed?

 

 

I completely disagree. The rule in DW, was for teams with no cash, and basically a last ditch resort to get someone to take over, if we couldnt find an owner. Rovers had Cash, so it wasnt applicable. The other situation, a team is tanking, and breaking rules. Those two scenerios have nothing to do with each other.

[Rovers]

I had no opinion either way about Rovers situation He cried like a lil b*itch and it got old fast. Keg is tanking, and I still do not want him removed from the league. I merely stated that was the penalty for breaking the rule. Fusion would never kick someone out like that. Nor would I or anyone in that league want anyone else gone.

 

 

LOL... you just can't grasp this can you? I covered my butt so that you would not be able to whine about my team being lousy this year while I rebiult it. I made sure I said my peace to the point that if and when you started to complain, I had backup to shut you up. So, you whine about me covering my butt instead. I accepted what the league did BEFORE I sent in my league dues. But, you are going to whine about something, sooner or later, aren't you? The only thing that is surprising here is how long your fuse has been.... the explosion was inevitable. It's been a couple of months since you went after someone. You were over due. now, the question is how long the explosion lasts. Until the next one.

[Sgt. Ryan]

LOL... you just can't grasp this can you? I covered my butt so that you would not be able to whine about my team being lousy this year while I rebiult it. I made sure I said my peace to the point that if and when you started to complain, I had backup to shut you up. So, you whine about me covering my butt instead. I accepted what the league did BEFORE I sent in my league dues. But, you are going to whine about something, sooner or later, aren't you? The only thing that is surprising here is how long your fuse has been.... the explosion was inevitable. It's been a couple of months since you went after someone. You were over due. now, the question is how long the explosion lasts. Until the next one.

 

 

So interesting yet confusing! are you talking about dude. No one is after Keg, and you are even less cared for than he is. I have never complained about you rebuilding, that is a flat out lie. I have nothing to back up. I brought a post here for opinions. I didnt make this personal, you did. You might want to get back on your meds, dude. You are off your rocker.

[Ralph Furley]

This should have been kept in house. Why even go public with a league issue like this? I know I'm on the outside looking in here, but this is the kind of crap that slowly tears leagues apart. I don't know how strong this league is, but I'd be pissed if someone was asking other people (who have nothing to do with it) what their opinion is. All this does is create more controvery and I feel bad for your league.

[Sgt. Ryan]

This should have been kept in house. Why even go public with a league issue like this? I know I'm on the outside looking in here, but this is the kind of crap that slowly tears leagues apart. I don't know how strong this league is, but I'd be pissed if someone was asking other people (who have nothing to do with it) what their opinion is. All this does is create more controvery and I feel bad for your league.

 

 

 

Geez, I kept the league info and owners in house. I didnt mention them. How hard is this for some people.

And on top of that, the league members do not have a viable solution, myself included. So I was looking for suggestions, if nothing else.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[Down Goes Frazia]

 

I just don't know where to jump in.

[AtomicCEO]

 

I just don't know where to jump in.

 

 

Me neither.

 

Do I jump in on the "Keg is tanking" side?

... or do I jump in on the "Sarge is a tool" side?

 

I have very strong opinions in favor of both. I think I'll just go back to the shadows.

 

[Down Goes Frazia]

All this does is create more controvery and I feel bad for your league.

 

 

this is like pouring ether on a fire. this league thrives on it. they're more p*ssed about losing all these posts to the main forum.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Me neither.

 

Do I jump in on the "Keg is tanking" side?

... or do I jump in on the "Sarge is a tool" side?

 

I have very strong opinions in favor of both. I think I'll just go back to the shadows.

 

 

 

I sure feel the love.

 

 

Actually me and CEO have agreed on too many things for one day, its about time we went back to cracking on each other. Im sure an, "I will destroy you all" comment, is right around the corner.

[Giants56]

Well first reading this thread is a half hour of my life that I'll never get back.

 

And also I think he's just employing good strategy. At some point in a dynasty league there would come a year where I just decided to blow the team up. Maybe he's gone a bit to the extreme side but it would seem to me he has positioned himself very well for the future and that's his job. And the key point in tanking is a level playing field - he's starting oh poopy on a shingle every week so competitive balance isn't off. Yeah he's going to end up with the #1 pick - that's good strategy. If you want to avoid this do some sort of draft lottery with non-playoff teams. Otherwise he's just doing a good job taking care of his team's future, while sacrificing a season.

[Down Goes Frazia]

I sure feel the love.

Actually me and CEO have agreed on too many things for one day, its about time we went back to cracking on each other. Im sure an, "I will destroy you all" comment, is right around the corner.

 

 

yeah I was gonna say.... you two lovebirds have been best buds here during keg's lynching.

[Ursa Majoris]

 

I just don't know where to jump in.

 

Anywhere, it makes no difference. Hugh entertainment - it's like the Sopranos.

[Giants56]

Well first reading this thread is a half hour of my life that I'll never get back.

 

And also I think he's just employing good strategy. At some point in a dynasty league there would come a year where I just decided to blow the team up. Maybe he's gone a bit to the extreme side but it would seem to me he has positioned himself very well for the future and that's his job. And the key point in tanking is a level playing field - he's starting oh poopy on a shingle every week so competitive balance isn't off. Yeah he's going to end up with the #1 pick - that's good strategy. If you want to avoid this do some sort of draft lottery with non-playoff teams. Otherwise he's just doing a good job taking care of his team's future, while sacrificing a season.

 

 

The filter leaves us with "oh poopy" - you gotta be kidding me

[Big Country]

Just curious...

 

Last year, you gave Darin and I a ration of business for a trade we made in the basketball league. Essentially I was all but out of the playoff race, and Darin was right in the midst of the playoff hunt, and while most agreed that on paper the trade was fair, the timing was off as one team was a playoff contender and one was all but out. THis was your HUGH issue and you went so far as to call Darin a cheat and question his integrity, ala Keggerz here.

 

As it turns out, on a per game basis, Darin one 5 categories, I won 3 and we tied on one. However, had Baron DAvis not gotten injured, I likely would have won the category we tied on (3 pts made), making 5-4, a virtual tie statistically speaking.

 

 

Now, you have just made a trade as a team in Darin's spot... 1 game off of the division lead and thus a playoff contender with a team that is 3 games out of their division race, has the worst record in the league and is all but out of the playoff race.

 

You gave up Favre (he still has Brady, a 2 pt difference on the season), Mason (he has Moss, Reggie WIlliams, Keyshawn, Kennison, he was your #5 WR) all outscoring him and a LB David Thornton, your #4 scoring LB (became his #2, haivng outscored an Oakland LB by 2 points thus far on the season)

 

Per your league rules you start 3 LBs, 1 QB and no more than 3 WRs, so, you gave up one starter (Favre) and two backups to a team that realistically is out of hte playoffs and will probably start Brady as much as Favre, wont likely use Mason and will likely start the LB.

 

You on the other hand received Manning (the #2 overall scoring player in the league), Culpepper and $5 in FA money, which is 10% of the total teams started the season with.

 

You essentially gave up two backups for a major WR improvement plus increased FA funds for the remainder of the season to a team that gained almost nothing but a LB that has outscored his #2 guy by 2 points (and he has Merriman as his current #3 scoring LB, so not sure the new guy really warrants a start).

 

Could you please explain how this is any different than the situation that you chastised and hounded Darin for publicly, attacked his integrity, etc.? (I somehow avoided the brunt of the attacks)

[Big Country]

Geez, I kept the league info and owners in house. I didnt mention them. How hard is this for some people.

And on top of that, the league members do not have a viable solution, myself included. So I was looking for suggestions, if nothing else.

 

 

umm.. you did mention it was a BOTH... not that hard to click your name, look at your posts and very quickly and readily see what league it is... or just scan the league forums.... it was the league that almost always had the last post in it today.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Just curious...

 

Last year, you gave Darin and I a ration of business for a trade we made in the basketball league. Essentially I was all but out of the playoff race, and Darin was right in the midst of the playoff hunt, and while most agreed that on paper the trade was fair, the timing was off as one team was a playoff contender and one was all but out. THis was your HUGH issue and you went so far as to call Darin a cheat and question his integrity, ala Keggerz here.

 

As it turns out, on a per game basis, Darin one 5 categories, I won 3 and we tied on one. However, had Baron DAvis not gotten injured, I likely would have won the category we tied on (3 pts made), making 5-4, a virtual tie statistically speaking.

Now, you have just made a trade as a team in Darin's spot... 1 game off of the division lead and thus a playoff contender with a team that is 3 games out of their division race, has the worst record in the league and is all but out of the playoff race.

 

You gave up Favre (he still has Brady, a 2 pt difference on the season), Mason (he has Moss, Reggie WIlliams, Keyshawn, Kennison, he was your #5 WR) all outscoring him and a LB David Thornton, your #4 scoring LB (became his #2, haivng outscored an Oakland LB by 2 points thus far on the season)

 

Per your league rules you start 3 LBs, 1 QB and no more than 3 WRs, so, you gave up one starter (Favre) and two backups to a team that realistically is out of hte playoffs and will probably start Brady as much as Favre, wont likely use Mason and will likely start the LB.

 

You on the other hand received Manning (the #2 overall scoring player in the league), Culpepper and $5 in FA money, which is 10% of the total teams started the season with.

 

You essentially gave up two backups for a major WR improvement plus increased FA funds for the remainder of the season to a team that gained almost nothing but a LB that has outscored his #2 guy by 2 points (and he has Merriman as his current #3 scoring LB, so not sure the new guy really warrants a start).

 

Could you please explain how this is any different than the situation that you chastised and hounded Darin for publicly, attacked his integrity, etc.? (I somehow avoided the brunt of the attacks)

 

 

 

Baron davis was hurt when you traded for him, though he was to possibly return in a few days. he did, and then was shut down for the rest of the year, what a week or so after his return. Baron davis hadnt finished a season in how many years now, and Golden State wasnt making any noise to make the post season, so they were bound to shut him down sooner, than later. And everyone including you and Darin knew that. You also gave up Tim Duncan, leaving you with nothing at C, to one of your drinking buddies. And if I recall, and I think I do, there was a veto vote on that trade, that was a very close vote to having that trade over turned. This year, KevinL put in a rules to avoid trades from going through automatically, which was the case last yr. The timing of the trade was ridiculous, and you loaded your buddy up for a title run.

 

At the time of the trade, Thornton hadnt had his bye, and was the #15 scoring LB, and my #2 LB. This owner is trying to make the playoffs, and is more than one player away from doing so, while Manning at the time of the trade was what 5 pts a week better than Favre. Last weeks games skewed the numbers from the time the trade was made on the LB and Qbs. Its the midpoint of the season, not days before the trade deadline, when you were all but mathmatically eliminated. I can guarantee you this owner in this league isnt trying to help me in the league bit. That would be like you trying to help me. This owner is trying to add players to his roster, while you were giving away players to your buddy. I dont think you really want to open this can of worms do you? Several in that league refused to play in the league with you guys this year for your actions at the end of last year, and those joined the league I created once Darin changed his intentions of returning from what Kevin L had told me.

 

Ive got further ill will towards either of you for what you did last yr. It didnt work, and I still bouced Darin and won the title. But that doesnt mean Im going to be in a situation where you two could do it again, in a league I was in. No offense. I got nothing against you, but you are trying to crucify me, and I dont think its going as well as you hoped. I dont have 17 AIM, I have 6, which I created for different leagues I was in, while at work. I had one AIM for general use, that no one at that time knew about, then a different one for each of the leagues I was in, so I didnt get bombarded from everyone while I was at work, or trying to work out a deal in any particular league. I only use 2 of those AIMs to date. One at work, and one is on all the time from my house. And I dont think Ive ever spoken to you on AIm before, so this has got to be exaggerated second hadn info, and Rovers cant contact me on AIM, on any of my accounts, so I havent talked to him in months, since he went to DMD on me for calling him who knows what and hurting his feelings. That dude just needs to get back on his meds.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[Sgt. Ryan]

umm.. you did mention it was a BOTH... not that hard to click your name, look at your posts and very quickly and readily see what league it is... or just scan the league forums.... it was the league that almost always had the last post in it today.

 

 

Im in DW, DW II, DW III, GMX, BCS, Fusion, and IDP Handbook. I guess I really didnt expect someone to try and hunt down the league I was talking about. Lesson Learned.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[pokerboss]

When I took over a truely miserable orphan, I had a discussion with the league commish. I was worried that my rebuild plan might draw this sort of critisism. There was actually a rule in place to help teams that were in dire straights, but was overlooked when I joined. The rule stated the bad orphans would get league money equal to that of the average top 3 team balances in league money. That never happened.

 

There was another bad orphan. That team, in a move that was not in the rules, got 30 league dollars to help him rebuild. The league made no effort to help me that way, even though I did raise the question.... while this old rule remained overlooked.

 

So, in talking to the commish, he said I was expected to field a team .... even if it sucked, I had to at least have an outside shot at winning any given week this year. While I areed, I also warned the other owners that my team was going to be very bad, and I didn't want to hear it once I started to rebuild.

 

To date, I'm 2-5, but won't have a QB to start this week with Kitna on a bye. I'm ready to pounce on anyone that complains about it. My plan is a two year plan, building through the draft and RFA.... so I am throwing my dues $ away for this year and next. Since Houston got hurt, I've been starting Toefield who is yet to score a point this year, with Maroney on my taxi squad. Tough chit if anyone doesn't like it.... they were warned before I enacted my rebuild plan.

 

Personally, I couldn't go to the extreme that Keg did here, but I'm not going to critisize it either. What he is doing is better than raping a team for the future and quiting the league. It remains a very gray area. I traded Bledose, knowing that would leave me with only one QB when Kitna's bye came around. Well, Bledsoe wouldn't have helped me anyway, now that he's benched. Regardless, again, too bad. If I had held Bledsoe, I still would not have had a QB to start this week. At what point do I look after my $ investment vs. league inegrity?

 

That's the bottom line. I'm paying charity money for the chance to see how well I can pull this rebuild off. Two years of charity money. I'm not complaining, that was my choice and I was fully aware of what it meant. Funny.... when I warned people in that league about rebuilding, someone called me a whiny woman.... one guess who that was.

 

 

as commish of the league that is under scrutiny here, i would provide the following points.

 

1. link to league , http://www.dynastywars.com/rules06.htm check rules 1.16, 2.5, and 2.6 ( as 1.16 applies to the other 2, it would be a matter of opinion of the commish and dpt commish ). another example of 1.16 is my using means outside these rules to find replacement owners on short notice.

 

2. the decision on both of the teams mentioned here involved me and the dpt commish. decisions on both teams were made to the best of our judgement at that time.

 

3. to my recall, other than lighthearted ribbing from me via AIM, no one in this league has ever PUBLICALLY said anything about you tanking or dogging it. this league has a cast of excellent owners and they understand that each situation warrants its own measures.

 

4. you were brought in to the league with the knowledge that you were experienced in this rule set and would use a logical means of resurecting this team, and you are doing just that. DESPITE THE PARANOIA, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR REBUILD

Edited October 25, 2006 by pokerboss

[Sgt. Ryan]

as commish of the league that is under scrutiny here, i would provide the following points.

 

1. link to league , http://www.dynastywars.com/rules06.htm check rules 1.16, 2.5, and 2.6 ( as 1.16 applies to the other 2, it would be a matter of opinion of the commish and dpt commish ). another example of 1.16 is my using means outside these rules to find replacement owners on short notice.

 

2. the decision on both of the teams mentioned here involved me and the dpt commish. decisions on both teams were made to the best of our judgement at that time.

 

3. to my recall, other than lighthearted ribbing from me via AIM, no one in this league has ever PUBLICALLY said anything about you tanking or dogging it. this league has a cast of excellent owners and they understand that each situation warrants its own measures.

 

4. you were brought in to the league with the knowledge that you were experienced in this rule set and would use a logical means of resurecting this team, and you are doing just that. DESPITE THE PARANOIA, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR REBUILD

 

 

 

[Big Country]

You're right, I do not want to open any can of worms, however, you have misstated several facts as per usual. I had several C eligible players, and, per the stats, made out fairly well in the deal considering the key player I seeked out to acquire was besieged by an injury after the trade went down. As for the vote, which Darin brought up as we thought there was at minimum a commish review of trades, came in favor of allowing the trade.