Michigan / OSU

[Sgt. Ryan]

NOW...Let's see the Troy Smith Question...Troy Smith is a great college QB and you can not take anything away from him there. Troy's running and escapability is incredible. The problem for him at the NFL level is his 5'10/ 5'11 height and will play huge in pro scouts minds....HOWEVER it only takes 1 motivated owner to take him earlier than projected and most scouts always say one thing and do another so who knows. I tend to think he's a late 2nd or early 3rd rounder myself. Troy's release is actually very quick since his thumb injury he's had to bring it back a little more, but to say Vince's delivery is any better is a joke...Vince's mechanics is medium level at best. Vince can flat fly in the open field and has Troy by a mile there. Troy's arm and his overall passing skills, reading a defense, finding the mismatch,stronger arm, and most important being able to go through his progressions is leaps and bounds above Vince right now. I'm not really high on either as pure NFL qb's that's more taste than anything else. I prefer the big armed pocket passer to the scrambler with a decent arm. Vick has kinda ruined me on that type of qb. Vince will be stuck in the mold for years to come where Troy has shown he's a qb first who by the way can run.

 

Michigan rematch won't happen UNLESS both USC and the Gators lose. I don't fear a rematch and think it would be great for The Big Ten and the midwest...I mean who can get tired of OSU vs Michigan. I just don't see the rest of the nation going for that.

 

The game in my humble opinion was a classic OSU/Mich game take nothing away from Michigan they came in with a game plan to pass to losen up the run and it worked,however as much as Michigan faithful do not want to hear it 2 of OSU turnovers was unforced errors. Troy not ready for the snap and Datish bowling the snap back to Troy. The interception was Troy's fault throwing into double coverage and forceing something that was not there. I would say OSU gift wraped 7 points at the min. but hey Let's get it on again and for that matter I'm happy to play anyone in the National Championship...I mean OSU is there and you can not win it if your not there....SO bring on Michigan,USC,Gators,Arkansas, Sister Mary of the Blind whoever Tress will put something together and be ready you can only play the game presented.

 

Tress I'm sorry is one of the best in the game today. Miami game "02" should have shown that and he's kept a fence around OHIO and that whole "02" season shows what type of coach he is..That "02" squad squeaked out nail biters week in and out winning playing Tress ball to get to the Championship and BAM Tress takes off the gloves for the BIG GAMES...That 2nd and inches td against Michigan...or Holy Buckeye call againts Purdue...like 4th and 6 game on the line and they throw a streak to Jenkins...COME ON..can't coach..Keep saying that..I love it...ALL HE DOES IS WIN...whatever I love being the hated team.

 

 

The ignorance by OSU fans about Vince Young is puzzling. Only Michael Vick has a stronger arm than Vince Young. Vince can throw a ball like a dart, 30 yards. he has an absolute cannon, can probably throw it 65-70 yards. Vince has terrible mechanics, but is better than Smith in every other category. Troy doesnt have the mental toughness Vince has, hasnt won a big game, coming from behind like Vince showed vs SC, and has never carried a team on his back the way Vince has. How soon do you forget what yoru defense couldnt do against him last yr. Think about this defense trying to slow him down without those LBs, it would be an absolute nightmare for OSU. Be thankful he is in the NFL.

 

Tressell is a nice coach no doubt, but the best, come on. Dude has more talent than anyone right now, like SC the last 2 years prior to that. Imagine that, the most talented teams win most of their games, well excpet SC vs Texas. But then again, that was because Vince was better than Leinart and Bush, and proved to be the legit Heisman winner. He gave up a chance to repeat and get his Heisman this yr, for more money than anyone here will ever see. And I dont blame him a bit. If Troy was half as good as Vince, teh NFL would have come calling last yr, like they did with Vince.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[Glabra]

The ignorance by OSU fans about Vince Young is puzzling. Only Michael Vick has a stronger arm than Vince Young. Vince can throw a ball like a dart, 30 yards. he has an absolute cannon, can probably throw it 65-70 yards. Vince has terrible mechanics, but is better than Smith in every other category. Troy doesnt have the mental toughness Vince has, hasnt won a big game, coming from behind like Vince showed vs SC, and has never carried a team on his back the way Vince has. How soon do you forget what yoru defense couldnt do against him last yr. Think about this defense trying to slow him down without those LBs, it would be an absolute nightmare for OSU. Be thankful he is in the NFL.

 

Tressell is a nice coach no doubt, but the best, come on. Dude has more talent than anyone right now, like SC the last 2 years prior to that. Imagine that, the most talented teams win most of their games, well excpet SC vs Texas. But then again, that was because Vince was better than Leinart and Bush, and proved to be the legit Heisman winner. He gave up a chance to repeat and get his Heisman this yr, for more money than anyone here will ever see. And I dont blame him a bit. If Troy was half as good as Vince, teh NFL would have come calling last yr, like they did with Vince.

 

Lord almighty...As much as I want to just leave you alone, your uninformed gibberish makes me come back and respond.

 

Vince has a canon arm; and so do Polish Javelin throwers, Jeff George and the aforementioned Michael Vick. That by itself doesn't make these folks great QBs. I'll infact go ahead and say that in evaluating QBs, that's one of the over-rated aspects. Scouts frequently fall in love with the canon arm, overlooking other important facets of QBing. Smith has a plenty strong arm; one that allows him to make all the tough throws.

 

Where Troy is far advanced compared to VY is upstairs. He was a tuck and run, lock-into-receivers type of scrambling QB 2 years ago. Now, after 2 years of meticulous film study and preparation, he's a field general who can dissect defense, make checks on the line, and be prepared to the nth degree before even stepping onto the field. VY never showed that command in college, or to be fair to him, didn't have to in that system.

 

Troy has never carried his team on his back, if you don't count, umm, I dunno, maybe the biggest games of his career. After all, he only has 1100 yards of offense in 3 wins against his team's biggest rival; helping his team overcome a 9-pt deficit last year on the road vs the said rival. His team might've had 2 losses this year with the backup QB, or any other QB for that matter; but that doesn't mean he can carry his team on his back or anything. He did come up short in the Texas game last year, sure, when he hadn't played the season-opener due to suspension; and rotated with Zwick after Zwick started the game.

 

Not to mention ofcourse some tiny, irrelevant details such as:

- He's now considerd by most to be one of the single best individual Ohio State players EVER in their storied history.

- He's the Big-10's all time passing efficiency leader.

-His 30 passing TDs rank 3rd all-time for a season in the Big-10.

- He'll win the Heisman this year.

 

and on and on we go.

 

His teammates, defensive and offensive are ready to die for him. He's a galvanizing force, with whom they feel they can never lose. To a man, they say they go as he goes. THAT'S leadership.

 

 

On Tressel, again, he does NOT get better talent coming in than the other top programs, as I mentioned in my earlier post. His recruiting classes have been below Michigan and other top guns; and he goes to get specific player-types and profiles; regardless of their ranking. Mixed in ofcourse are certain top-flight guys such as Ginn, Boone etc.

 

He always maintains great staffs, plays players early which makes for easier re-loading (lost 9 defensive starters and D is still 2nd in scoring defense), and flat -out coaches balls out in the biggest games. If he was on the Michigan sideline on 11/18 and LC was on our sideline(a blasphemous thought), you better believe the result would've been reversed.

 

Now, here's some interesting reading on a national perspective from an astute CFB writer, Mathew Zemek of Sporting News on Tressel.

The great coaches--and we've talked about this before in this and past college football seasons--have the wisdom to realize that each game is its own unique entity. This Ohio State-Michigan game was not a Woody-Bo bruiser from the early 1970s; it had track stars on the edges, solid offensive fronts, and capable quarterbacks, with Troy Smith being especially outstanding in (or should we say on?) his field. The way a fast-break game is managed will be entirely different from the way in which a 10-10 slugfest is handled. At various points along the way, then, Jim Tressel made the kinds of game-management decisions and play-calling selections that vastly increased his team's chances of winning.

The first move by Tressel that would prove decisive was his stubborn use of spread formations early in the contest. Whereas so many coaches remain locked into the antiquated view (it was appropriate for Woody and Bo in the 70s; it's not nearly as relevant now) that you must run to set up the pass, Tressel had the vision to realize that he needed to pass in order to set up the run. Tressel led with his best dance step from Smith, his offensive leader, while also spreading out the English Majors and preventing Michigan's defense from attacking No. 10 in the pocket. Only after establishing effectiveness with this look did Tressel then mix in the power running game, and the two touchdown runs from Chris Wells and Antonio Pittman were the perfect products of a masterful sequencing of both play calls and formations.

 

The other major masterstroke from the best Buckeye brain in the land came with roughly six minutes left in the second quarter. A few minutes after Lloyd Carr and Michigan punted on a 4th and 1 from their own 49 in a game OSU led by seven (14-7), Tressel faced a 2nd and 1 from the Wolverine 38. If this was not a fast-break game and more of a Woody-Bo brawl, a power run for a chain-moving two-yard gain would have been in order. But since this was a track meet, Tressel used the down-and-distance situation to press his advantage and convert a kill shot. He had Smith throw a bomb to Ted Ginn for a quick-strike touchdown and a 21-7 advantage. This was the kind of executive decision making that enabled Ohio State to outpace Michigan all day long. While the final spread was just three points, the Buckeyes were never seriously in danger of losing. Michigan fought hard, but only to keep the game within a one-score margin. The difference on the field was Troy Smith, but the No. 1 team in the United States also had a difference-making coach. Without Jim Tressel's impressive combination of insight, feel and boldness, the Buckeyes would not have been able to light up Ron English's defense.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Glabra

[Cameltosis]

Lord almighty...As much as I want to just leave you alone, your uninformed gibberish makes me come back and respond.

 

Vince has a canon arm; and so do Polish Javelin throwers, Jeff George and the aforementioned Michael Vick. That by itself doesn't make these folks great QBs. I'll infact go ahead and say that in evaluating QBs, that's one of the over-rated aspects. Scouts frequently fall in love with the canon arm, overlooking other important facets of QBing. Smith has a plenty strong arm; one that allows him to make all the tough throws.

 

Where Troy is far advanced compared to VY is upstairs. He was a tuck and run, lock-into-receivers type of scrambling QB 2 years ago. Now, after 2 years of meticulous film study and preparation, he's a field general who can dissect defense, make checks on the line, and be prepared to the nth degree before even stepping onto the field. VY never showed that command in college, or to be fair to him, didn't have to in that system.

 

Troy has never carried his team on his back, if you don't count, umm, I dunno, maybe the biggest games of his career. After all, he only has 1100 yards of offense in 3 wins against his team's biggest rival; helping his team overcome a 9-pt deficit last year on the road vs the said rival. His team might've had 2 losses this year with the backup QB, or any other QB for that matter; but that doesn't mean he can carry his team on his back or anything. He did come up short in the Texas game last year, sure, when he hadn't played the season-opener due to suspension; and rotated with Zwick after Zwick started the game.

 

Not to mention ofcourse some tiny, irrelevant details such as:

- He's now considerd by most to be one of the single best individual Ohio State players EVER in their storied history.

- He's the Big-10's all time passing efficiency leader.

-His 30 passing TDs rank 3rd all-time for a season in the Big-10.

- He'll win the Heisman this year.

 

and on and on we go.

 

His teammates, defensive and offensive are ready to die for him. He's a galvanizing force, with whom they feel they can never lose. To a man, they say they go as he goes. THAT'S leadership.

On Tressel, again, he does NOT get better talent coming in than the other top programs, as I mentioned in my earlier post. His recruiting classes have been below Michigan and other top guns; and he goes to get specific player-types and profiles; regardless of their ranking. Mixed in ofcourse are certain top-flight guys such as Ginn, Boone etc.

 

He always maintains great staffs, plays players early which makes for easier re-loading (lost 9 defensive starters and D is still 2nd in scoring defense), and flat -out coaches balls out in the biggest games. If he was on the Michigan sideline on 11/18 and LC was on our sideline(a blasphemous thought), you better believe the result would've been reversed.

 

Now, here's some interesting reading on a national perspective from an astute CFB writer, Mathew Zemek of Sporting News on Tressel.

 

 

Really, what more needs to be said. I cannot understand how this argument continues. All the talk about the turnovers being forced or unforced, the long runs being flukey, or just missed assignments. COME ON GUYS, this is what happens in football. The fumbles were unforced errors that were actually forced by the center having more on his mind then snapping the ball. The long runs were, of course, missed assignments. You can make that argument about any given play in a game. But the reality of it is that when you spread the field 4 wide, with a QB that is methodically picking you apart, you have to move some LB's. This opens up the middle and the rest is history.

 

Regardless, the fact remains, as the article stated, after the 7 minute mark in the first quarter Ohio State was never in danger of loosing this game. If Troy Smith would have had to make a game winning drive he would have. He didnt have to. Michigan scratched and clawed to within a score and that was the best they could do.

 

I welcome a rematch. I welcome USC. I welcome Florida. I could care less, its the damn National Championship.

[junebugz]

Really, what more needs to be said. I cannot understand how this argument continues. All the talk about the turnovers being forced or unforced, the long runs being flukey, or just missed assignments. COME ON GUYS, this is what happens in football. The fumbles were unforced errors that were actually forced by the center having more on his mind then snapping the ball. The long runs were, of course, missed assignments. You can make that argument about any given play in a game. But the reality of it is that when you spread the field 4 wide, with a QB that is methodically picking you apart, you have to move some LB's. This opens up the middle and the rest is history.

 

Regardless, the fact remains, as the article stated, after the 7 minute mark in the first quarter Ohio State was never in danger of loosing this game. If Troy Smith would have had to make a game winning drive he would have. He didnt have to. Michigan scratched and clawed to within a score and that was the best they could do.

 

I welcome a rematch. I welcome USC. I welcome Florida. I could care less, its the damn National Championship.

 

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Really, what more needs to be said. I cannot understand how this argument continues. All the talk about the turnovers being forced or unforced, the long runs being flukey, or just missed assignments. COME ON GUYS, this is what happens in football. The fumbles were unforced errors that were actually forced by the center having more on his mind then snapping the ball. The long runs were, of course, missed assignments. You can make that argument about any given play in a game. But the reality of it is that when you spread the field 4 wide, with a QB that is methodically picking you apart, you have to move some LB's. This opens up the middle and the rest is history.

 

Regardless, the fact remains, as the article stated, after the 7 minute mark in the first quarter Ohio State was never in danger of loosing this game. If Troy Smith would have had to make a game winning drive he would have. He didnt have to. Michigan scratched and clawed to within a score and that was the best they could do.

 

I welcome a rematch. I welcome USC. I welcome Florida. I could care less, its the damn National Championship.

 

 

 

Wow. I'm sorry and when was I bashing on Ohio State? I said the 2 long running plays happened on Michigan blown assigments. I'm not even in this Troy Smith argument, so don't drag me in. My post was to knock the Buckeye fans down a notch or two, the ones who beleive there team was soooooooo much better than Michigan, and have repeatedly talked about how, if the turnovers didn't happen, the game is blowout city. All I'm saying, is if the blown assigments don't happen, what happens then? In other words, I agree with you, they are all apart of football, and the bottom line at the end of the day is Ohio State 42 Michigan 39. It was a great game. I'm just sick of seeing one side make excuses as to either why the game was closer than it really was, or why Michigan didn't win. The turnover crap can be the same thing used by me during the Iowa-Ohio State game earlier this year. "If those unforced turnovers don't happen, then Iowa would have been closer to Ohio State than the score indicated." That's just a stupid argument that I would never in my wildest dreams make. The turnovers happened, and the other team made good on them, and thus dominated the football game. The bottom line is, in just about every game, each side can come up with some EXCUSE as to why there team didn't win, or in Buckeyes fans cases, why the game was closer than it really was.

[Cameltosis]

Wow. I'm sorry and when was I bashing on Ohio State? I said the 2 long running plays happened on Michigan blown assigments. I'm not even in this Troy Smith argument, so don't drag me in. My post was to knock the Buckeye fans down a notch or two, the ones who beleive there team was soooooooo much better than Michigan, and have repeatedly talked about how, if the turnovers didn't happen, the game is blowout city. All I'm saying, is if the blown assigments don't happen, what happens then? In other words, I agree with you, they are all apart of football, and the bottom line at the end of the day is Ohio State 42 Michigan 39. It was a great game. I'm just sick of seeing one side make excuses as to either why the game was closer than it really was, or why Michigan didn't win. The turnover crap can be the same thing used by me during the Iowa-Ohio State game earlier this year. "If those unforced turnovers don't happen, then Iowa would have been closer to Ohio State than the score indicated." That's just a stupid argument that I would never in my wildest dreams make. The turnovers happened, and the other team made good on them, and thus dominated the football game. The bottom line is, in just about every game, each side can come up with some EXCUSE as to why there team didn't win, or in Buckeyes fans cases, why the game was closer than it really was.

 

 

Defensive much? I made arguments on both sides of the ball. I am sick of people ruining a great game by two great teams by arguing moot points. If you made a point stating that the 2 long runs were missed assignments than maybe my points hit home. I wasnt singling you out. I was trying to comment on how a post about the game of the year, so far, has turned into a lady dog fest of ifs and buts. In no way was this game decided anywhere else than on the field, as most of them are.

 

The fumbles may have led to Michigan points but they were not the reason the game was as close as it was. Tressel's playcalling got much more conservatve in the 3rd quarter. He knew going in that he couldnt run between the tackles on Michigan from under center. Why he tried in the 3rd is a mystery. He knew he could throw the ball downfield on Michigan. Why he didnt do that in the 3rd is another question. In the end he let Troy win the game and he did. Finally, Michigan played a great game. Hart was unbelievable, as he tends to be. Henne was as good as he has ever been.

 

I certainly wasnt singling anyone out personally, not my intention or my style.

[sacosud]

The ignorance by OSU fans about Vince Young is puzzling. Only Michael Vick has a stronger arm than Vince Young. Vince can throw a ball like a dart, 30 yards. he has an absolute cannon, can probably throw it 65-70 yards. Vince has terrible mechanics, but is better than Smith in every other category. Troy doesnt have the mental toughness Vince has, hasnt won a big game, coming from behind like Vince showed vs SC, and has never carried a team on his back the way Vince has. How soon do you forget what yoru defense couldnt do against him last yr. Think about this defense trying to slow him down without those LBs, it would be an absolute nightmare for OSU. Be thankful he is in the NFL.

 

Tressell is a nice coach no doubt, but the best, come on. Dude has more talent than anyone right now, like SC the last 2 years prior to that. Imagine that, the most talented teams win most of their games, well excpet SC vs Texas. But then again, that was because Vince was better than Leinart and Bush, and proved to be the legit Heisman winner. He gave up a chance to repeat and get his Heisman this yr, for more money than anyone here will ever see. And I dont blame him a bit. If Troy was half as good as Vince, teh NFL would have come calling last yr, like they did with Vince.

 

It's a opinion sorry if you disagree, Like I said I'm not super high on either Qb. I just can't see Vince having the better arm and sometimes a QB is responsible for keeping a lead and not having to will his team back from behind...I thought the point was to get the lead and keep it. I guess it's a argument that will be decided by time. I do not see Vince doing any better than Vick in the league. I'm not going to argue for Tress, I don't have too. I think most would agree he's done outstanding since getting to OSU. I'll just stick with that.

[sacosud]

i am sick of the Turnover BS, Michigan made the plays, caused the Turnovers to make it a game, period, i did not see OSU voluntarily dropping the ball or coughing it up....enough of that crap.....lets face it, no helmet to helmet on that 3rd down and michigan wins that game, period....

 

I guess center interference is something we see every day. Have you watched the replay??? How could that not be called Helmet to Helmet. Your team LOST period....again I might add.

[sacosud]

The ignorance by OSU fans about Vince Young is puzzling. Only Michael Vick has a stronger arm than Vince Young. Vince can throw a ball like a dart, 30 yards. he has an absolute cannon, can probably throw it 65-70 yards. Vince has terrible mechanics, but is better than Smith in every other category. Troy doesnt have the mental toughness Vince has, hasnt won a big game, coming from behind like Vince showed vs SC, and has never carried a team on his back the way Vince has. How soon do you forget what yoru defense couldnt do against him last yr. Think about this defense trying to slow him down without those LBs, it would be an absolute nightmare for OSU. Be thankful he is in the NFL.

 

Tressell is a nice coach no doubt, but the best, come on. Dude has more talent than anyone right now, like SC the last 2 years prior to that. Imagine that, the most talented teams win most of their games, well excpet SC vs Texas. But then again, that was because Vince was better than Leinart and Bush, and proved to be the legit Heisman winner. He gave up a chance to repeat and get his Heisman this yr, for more money than anyone here will ever see. And I dont blame him a bit. If Troy was half as good as Vince, teh NFL would have come calling last yr, like they did with Vince.

 

LOL...I'm sure if I look hard enough you clowned on OSU early in the year and we lost 9 starters on defense.."Blah" Blah"...lol..We have a former walk on starting at db for crying out loud!!!! A very young group of db's/lb's and most predicted without Holmes we were in trouble...The band plays on and on. The OSU kicking game is nothing special. The offense is the best in the country lead by a qb that just took the last scholarship ava. Zwick was the higher rated qb by far.

[Sgt. Ryan]

LOL...I'm sure if I look hard enough you clowned on OSU early in the year and we lost 9 starters on defense.."Blah" Blah"...lol..We have a former walk on starting at db for crying out loud!!!! A very young group of db's/lb's and most predicted without Holmes we were in trouble...The band plays on and on. The OSU kicking game is nothing special. The offense is the best in the country lead by a qb that just took the last scholarship ava. Zwick was the higher rated qb by far.

 

 

Actually I picked OSU to win it all. Look it up dumb ass.

[Sgt. Ryan]

One more thing about troy Smith. I just watched on ESPN Classic the full game, great game. But Troy Smith completely locks in on the receiver he is throwing too, and vs a good defense, could get OSU beat. As great as some here say Smith is, its my opinion the respect defenders give Ginn and Co has more to do with the success of the OSu offense than Troy Smith. WR's are constantly open, by at least a yard or more, because of this cushion. Who couldnt be accurate when they have no one near the WR on most throws. There is no way Troy Smith is going to cut it in the NFL. He is too small, gets the ball out too slow, and defenders at the next level will pick him apart, aside from the fact, he wont have as much time to make a decision as he does in most games in college. The speed of the game is going to eat this shrimp alive. And there is no way he is 6'. Maybe 5"11, but more likely 5'10.

Edited November 23, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[GWPFFL BrianW]

sarge did pick OSU. sac, in defense of maize and blue, I don't think he's saying that there wasn't helmet to helmet, I think he's saying if there wasn't that stupid play (a play that should have been controlled by the stupid Michigan defender) that its very likely Michigan might have won that game. Thats how the chips fell, congrats to OSU on a great season.

[theprofessor]

Troy Smith hasn't won a BIG game? Get a clue!

 

Troy Smith ...... 2006 Heismann Trophy Winner

[sacosud]

Actually I picked OSU to win it all. Look it up dumb ass.

 

Good for you...."Nice Mouth"

Edited November 23, 2006 by sacosud

[sacosud]

sarge did pick OSU. sac, in defense of maize and blue, I don't think he's saying that there wasn't helmet to helmet, I think he's saying if there wasn't that stupid play (a play that should have been controlled by the stupid Michigan defender) that its very likely Michigan might have won that game. Thats how the chips fell, congrats to OSU on a great season.

 

Sounds like to me.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Maybe, it just looked like he was stating that it was a REALLY stupid play. I mean why lead with your helmet to begin with, especially on a QUARTERBACK, who is clearly running towards the sideline, and you got another Michigan defender closing in on him. What a moron. I am convinced, however, that even if it wasn't helmet to helmet, that they woulda called a late hit.

[Primetime9287]

Troy Smith ...... 2006 Heismann Trophy Winner

 

 

I'd hope so. Who is his competition?

[Primetime9287]

I am sick of people ruining a great game by two great teams by arguing moot points.

 

 

*violin playing* Close your browser then...

[theprofessor]

I'd hope so. Who is his competition?

 

 

Mr. Quinn.

[theprofessor]

I'd hope so. Who is his competition?

 

 

Mr. Quinn.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Mr. Quinn.

 

 

LMAO!