Chavez Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 . However, the difference is what is the intent behind the words. Realistically, we know that Howard....Calling a guy a Monkey running is basically showing your hand and telling the world what you think of black people and worse how you think and talk of them when your alone. Otherwise, you could not have come up with that analogy off the top of your head. There were instances of Cosell calling white athletes "monkeys" - and Cosell was one of the few sportscasters who supported Ali after he went Muslim and protested 'Nam. Cosell was FAR from a racist. Jimmy the Greek ....who cares about him? Maybe Irvin's remark is something he jokes with Romo about, and that's fine; I don't think it's something that should be said on a national radio broadcast. He's just clueless and one of many reasons I tend to avoid ESPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 My point exactly, because even though the sentiment/main point is EXACTLY the same, it's more offensive because a white man (htpothetically) said it, not an Afr.-American man. Just the way it is in today's society. Insinuating the white race is less athletic compared to claiming the black race is less intelligent is not the EXACTLY same sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Insinuating the white race is less athletic compared to claiming the black race is less intelligent is not the EXACTLY same sentiment. How is it not? And a second point is why is it acceptable for everyone to cruise along on the assumption that blacks are better athletes - something where if you were arguing that blacks and whites are equal athletes EVERYONE would say you were crazy - but if you argue that whites are smarter, you are a "racist"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 My point exactly, because even though the sentiment/main point is EXACTLY the same, it's more offensive because a white man (htpothetically) said it, not an Afr.-American man. Just the way it is in today's society. I have to disagree that the two comments are the same. Separating people based on intelligence and athletic ability are two different cans of worms. I think most of us white folks would readily admit to not be able to jump and laugh at ourselves that that is an accurate fact of life. Whereas blacks being stupid is inaccurate and certainly not something that black people would find acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I have to disagree that the two comments are the same. Separating people based on intelligence and athletic ability are two different cans of worms. I think most of us white folks would readily admit to not be able to jump and laugh at ourselves that that is an accurate fact of life. Whereas blacks being stupid is inaccurate and certainly not something that black people would find acceptable. It's not that blacks are stupid (hypothetically in this example) - it's that, taken as a whole, do they have lower intelligence than whites? Going with the whole "blacks = superior athletes" theory, look at the emipirical evidence people will use - the bulk of the NBA and NFL are black, in a proportion FAR above the % in society as a whole. For intelligence, what measure would you use? Number of doctors and lawyers? what % of MENSA that minority makes up? Standardized test scores? There are PLENTY of reasons why black people as a whole would be under-represented in these measures (if they are, I don't know); there are also PLENTY of reasons that white people may be under-represented in the NBA and NFL aside from raw athletic ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 How is it not? Intelligence or smarts can be affected by a multitude of external factors while growing up when athleticism is basically a genetic trait that isn't fundamentally developed throughout time. That seemed pretty obvious to me. As far as the double standard perception goes, you will have ask someone else who gives a rip about the Michael Irvin/Jimmy the Greek comments, because I really don't. ESPN has the right to disclipine Irvin just like CBS did with Jimmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Intelligence or smarts can be affected by a multitude of external factors while growing up when athleticism is basically a genetic trait that isn't fundamentally developed throughout time. That seemed pretty obvious to me. You're confusing KNOWLEDGE with INTELLIGENCE. Which many people do, as there isn't really any way to measure intelligence absent knowledge. And who's to say that athleticism can't be affected the same way as intelligence, by external factors? If you view sports as your (and your family's) only way out of a desperate situation, you are going to practice your ass off and have better muscle memory of specific tasks needed, increased hand-eye coordination, better stamina, and probably a more burning desire to succeed on the court. Whereas someone from a comfortable middle-class existence may be slightly less motivated. That sure seems like an EXTERNAL factor to athletic success to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Just because Michael has a pipe doesn't mean he smokes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Just because Michael has a pipe doesn't mean he smokes I thought it was his brother's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 You're confusing KNOWLEDGE with INTELLIGENCE. Which many people do, as there isn't really any way to measure intelligence absent knowledge. Isn't that what an IQ test (even with its flaws) is for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 It's going to always be the same. The Larry Birds have to struggle to succeed in sports and the Magic Johnsons will be born to play. One works at it and the other just has it. Which is why Randy Moss gets hit twice as hard when he says something stupid in the papers. The dude didn't have to work hard to be where he's at. He just grew up and all of a sudden he had more talent as a receiver than most people dream about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboz Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 What's the big deal? We're basically the same with different wrappings, strengths and weaknesses. White men are white because we need to manufacture more vitamin D in less light. That’s it! Humans are rain forest dwellers from Africa, we're all Africans, get over it! WE learned to dominate and make clothes, weapons and then we expanded into the cold regions. As we moved north we wore cloths, were exposed to less light and therefore evolved (or where CREATED), to have a lighter skin. Without making vitamin D we could not live! Maybe that makes us white guys Light Skinned-Africans mutants? LOL We evolved or retained traits needed to live in the regions we called home. OK, some races do seem to perform some tasks better than others. Us white dudes are best at manufacturing vitamin D in the north, got skinny noses to warm the cold air… But I guess for some reason we don't make the best running backs but seem to make decent QB's so what. I don't get the big deal about who’s what and who’s better at what who can jump, bigger, run, reason, has bigger, you know, why give a crap? If you think Vicks speed is ONLY about muscle speed,,, its the brain that makes those moves, isn't that fast thinking, creative and in my eyes unusually intelligent? AND How much smarter than Dr. Condoleezza Rice can anyone be? I love the diversity that this planet has, SEE the beauty. It‘s The Shizzile... OH YEA,,,,, I could give a crap what or who MI said Romo’s great, great, great..... Granny did. Damn I'm just stoked that he threw 5 TD's last night for my FF team, black, white greay! There's only one human race and we’re all amazing! Hey and who’s to say, it wasn't some old white geezer, slave owner that chased some smokin hot slave girl down? ha ha ha,,,,,, WHATEVER , GO ROMO!!!!! Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 What's the big deal? We're basically the same with different wrappings, strengths and weaknesses. White men are white because we need to manufacture more vitamin D in less light. That’s it! Humans are rain forest dwellers from Africa, we're all Africans, get over it! WE learned to dominate and make clothes, weapons and then we expanded into the cold regions. As we moved north we wore cloths, were exposed to less light and therefore evolved (or where CREATED), to have a lighter skin. Without making vitamin D we could not live! Maybe that makes us white guys Light Skinned-Africans mutants? LOL We evolved or retained traits needed to live in the regions we called home. OK, some races do seem to perform some tasks better than others. Us white dudes are best at manufacturing vitamin D in the north, got skinny noses to warm the cold air… But I guess for some reason we don't make the best running backs but seem to make decent QB's so what. I don't get the big deal about who’s what and who’s better at what who can jump, bigger, run, reason, has bigger, you know, why give a crap? If you think Vicks speed is ONLY about muscle speed,,, its the brain that makes those moves, isn't that fast thinking, creative and in my eyes unusually intelligent? AND How much smarter than Dr. Condoleezza Rice can anyone be? I love the diversity that this planet has, SEE the beauty. It‘s The Shizzile... OH YEA,,,,, I could give a crap what or who MI said Romo’s great, great, great..... Granny did. Damn I'm just stoked that he threw 5 TD's last night for my FF team, black, white greay! There's only one human race and we’re all amazing! Hey and who’s to say, it wasn't some old white geezer, slave owner that chased some smokin hot slave girl down? ha ha ha,,,,,, WHATEVER , GO ROMO!!!!! Peace I like this dude, whoever you are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 What's the big deal? We're basically the same with different wrappings, strengths and weaknesses. White men are white because we need to manufacture more vitamin D in less light. That’s it! Humans are rain forest dwellers from Africa, we're all Africans, get over it! WE learned to dominate and make clothes, weapons and then we expanded into the cold regions. As we moved north we wore cloths, were exposed to less light and therefore evolved (or where CREATED), to have a lighter skin. Without making vitamin D we could not live! Maybe that makes us white guys Light Skinned-Africans mutants? LOL We evolved or retained traits needed to live in the regions we called home. OK, some races do seem to perform some tasks better than others. Us white dudes are best at manufacturing vitamin D in the north, got skinny noses to warm the cold air… But I guess for some reason we don't make the best running backs but seem to make decent QB's so what. I don't get the big deal about who’s what and who’s better at what who can jump, bigger, run, reason, has bigger, you know, why give a crap? If you think Vicks speed is ONLY about muscle speed,,, its the brain that makes those moves, isn't that fast thinking, creative and in my eyes unusually intelligent? AND How much smarter than Dr. Condoleezza Rice can anyone be? I love the diversity that this planet has, SEE the beauty. It‘s The Shizzile... OH YEA,,,,, I could give a crap what or who MI said Romo’s great, great, great..... Granny did. Damn I'm just stoked that he threw 5 TD's last night for my FF team, black, white greay! There's only one human race and we’re all amazing! Hey and who’s to say, it wasn't some old white geezer, slave owner that chased some smokin hot slave girl down? ha ha ha,,,,,, WHATEVER , GO ROMO!!!!! Peace You had me until you put Condi up on an intellectual pedestal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 You had me until you put Condi up on an intellectual pedestal. +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboz Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 You had me until you put Condi up on an intellectual pedestal. Yea I kinda knew that one going in,,, I don't what it is about her,,, Like her. GO ROMO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorcher Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 The simple truth of this whole matter is "If you are going to make a misinterpreted or derogatory remark about a race----make sure you're a member of that race." It's always socially acceptable to criticize or make fun of your own race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 (edited) And who's to say that athleticism can't be affected the same way as intelligence, by external factors? Allright...give me 10 random 6' 10" black dudes with 40 inch vertical maximum jumps and you get 10 200 + pound white guys with a 2" vertical maximum jumps. I bet my mortgage that it's infininelty easier to get a marked improvment on these guys SAT scores than you do with the white boys vertical jumps. You lose. Because that is reality. Look, Msaint's comparison was fecetious and if everyone would stop being such a whiny pu$$ly about race (ie....wanting to see overaction from one side to justify the other side) and realize our differences, maybe in my utopia world, none of this stupid crap exists. The biggest problem I have with the perceived double "black man is keeping us white guys down" standard thing is the people who complain about it are feeding the beast. Edited November 25, 2006 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 all the touchy race stuff aside, more than anything, i'm shocked irvin still has an actual job at ESPN. seriously, who does he have nude pics of? Chris Berman. And NOBODY wants to see them, so they have to keep the crackclown on the air ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 it's the exact same can of worms...and that can is labeled "campbell's ignorant stereotypes, now with more noodles!" you can argue that one is more harmful/mean-spirited and one is more of a butt of jokes for comedy clubs and steve martin/queen latifa movies, but they're still negative assumptions that are made about a group of people based on the color of their skin. and as a white man who can run fast i'm offfended, dammit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 This is the double standard that so many of us are sick of. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 The simple truth of this whole matter is "If you are going to make a misinterpreted or derogatory remark about a race----make sure you're a member of that race." It's always socially acceptable to criticize or make fun of your own race. Couldn't agree more. After Michael Richards' rant the other night, African-Americans were upset because he used a word (the n-word) that was "not his word to use." If that's the case, we should never hear "cracker" or "Opie" come from anyone's mouth who isn't white. This whole race thing sickens me. So sad that we still have these problems. But we better get used to it because it apparently is not going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I just went to ESPN.com and sent them the following email... "Fire Michael Irvin! How he became a part of your NFL coverage team is beyond me. The man cannot speak intelligently and constantly cuts off his co-hosts. Now he makes a racially insensitive comment about Tony Romo. When does society finally reprimand a black man for making a racial comment about whites? Let's get rid of the double-standard -- and Irvin -- and show all that ESPN truly is the leader in sports programming." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 and as a white man who can run fast i'm offfended, dammit!! But can you jump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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