rai Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I got to thinking who is or is not a HOF-er. IMO once you pass a certain threshold you need to be considered. Vinnys stats; 20 years with 208 games started (13 full seasons if played 16 games) Yards: 45,242 (6th) (10,000 more than Jim Kelly) TDs 269 (8th) (4 fewer than Montana) ------ For WRs, today we have Moss, TO and Harrison with more than 100 TDs For RBs we have SA and LT with more than 100 (of course Marshall leads current players but I'm not sure if he's still active anymore) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Vinny Testaverde? Are you freaking serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Vinny Testaverde? Are you freaking serious? Agreed. I'm from NJ and have always liked Vinny, but there is absolutely no way in friggin' hell that Vinny is getting into Canton without a ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Vinny Testaverde? Are you freaking serious? so that's a firm no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I'm a huge fan of Vinny from Elmont, but there's no way he's HOF material. Not long ago someone on this board tried to make the case for Corey Dillon as a Hall of Famer, and they were able to cite some impressive stats much like you've done for Vinny - but I don't buy it for Dillon either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 so that's a firm no? Indeed it is. Same goes for Bledsoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Why I am writing this ... Joe Montana facts - 8 time Pro-Bowler - 4 time Super Bowl champ - played in 192 games - 63.2% career completion percentage - 40,551 career yards - 273 career tds - 139 career ints - consistently among top 10 QB's when actively starting Vinny Testaverde facts - 2 time Pro-Bowler - 20 time Super Bowl spectator (not in uniform) - played in 225 games - 56.6% career completion percentage - 45,252 career yards - 269 career tds - 261 career ints - consistently not among top 10 QB's when actively starting granted Vinny has 4K more yards than Joe Cool but he also played 33 more games ... which averages out to roughly 142 yards/game ... which i think everyone could agree that even Michael Vick could pass for an average of 142 yards/game (DO NOT START THIS INTO A MICHAEL VICK THREAD) ... point is, Vinny played average at QB, his yardage is not spectacular since it averages out to 200 yards/game ... his td to int ratio is certainly nothing to brag about and neither is his completion percentage bottom line ... the only way vinny gets into the HOF is if he pays the admission price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) I got to thinking who is or is not a HOF-er. IMO once you pass a certain threshold you need to be considered. For WRs, today we have Moss, TO and Harrison with more than 100 TDs An interesting name who I thought of recently that I think has a legitimate shot is Isaac Bruce. He may not be a name that jumps right out at you as a HOFer, but he does have seven 1,000 yard receiving seasons so far and he's already in or closing in on the top 10 in all of the major receiving categories. Ike is currently: 7th in receptions with 862 9th in receiving yards with 12,967 20th in receiving TDs with 78 (Andre Reed is in 10th with 87) He is 34 years old and putting together a very solid year this season, there's really no reason to think that he doesn't have another 2-3 solid seasons left in him. That would put him solidly in 6th position or higher all time in receptions and receiving yards, and somewhere around tenth in receiving TDs. I say he's a HOFer. What do you guys think? Edited November 27, 2006 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Vinny Testaverde? Are you freaking serious? must be a FBG reject. They really love HoF threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 An interesting name who I thought of recently that I think has a legitimate shot is Isaac Bruce. He may not be a name that jumps right out at you as a HOFer, but he does have seven 1,000 yard receiving seasons so far and he's already in or closing in on the top 10 in the major receiving categories. He's currently 7th in receptions with 862, 9th in receiving yards with 12,967, and 20th in receiving TDs with 28 (Andre Reed is in 10th with 87). He's 34 and putting together a very solid year this season, there's really no reason to think that he doesn't have another 2-3 solid seasons left in him. That would put him solidly in 6th position or higher all time in receptions and receiving yards, and somewhere around tenth in receiving TDs. I say he's a HOFer. What do you guys think? I think if Art Monk doesn't make it in, then it will be hard for Isaac to, unless he puts up at least one more very good year. He's running out of time though IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 An interesting name who I thought of recently that I think has a legitimate shot is Isaac Bruce. He may not be a name that jumps right out at you as a HOFer, but he does have seven 1,000 yard receiving seasons so far and he's already in or closing in on the top 10 in the major receiving categories. He's currently 7th in receptions with 862, 9th in receiving yards with 12,967, and 20th in receiving TDs with 28 (Andre Reed is in 10th with 87). He's 34 and putting together a very solid year this season, there's really no reason to think that he doesn't have another 2-3 solid seasons left in him. That would put him solidly in 6th position or higher all time in receptions and receiving yards, and somewhere around tenth in receiving TDs. I say he's a HOFer. What do you guys think? I definitely agree that Bruce has a chance. A lot of people forget about how good he was from the mid-90's until the turn of the century. By the time his career is over (he'll be a good possession receiver for another 3-4 years, if he chooses to play), he'll be above Andre Reed - another guy who I think will get in. Catching the winning TD in the SB doesn't hurt, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Mania Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Why I am writing this ... Joe Montana facts - 8 time Pro-Bowler - 4 time Super Bowl champ - played in 192 games - 63.2% career completion percentage - 40,551 career yards - 273 career tds - 139 career ints - consistently among top 10 QB's when actively starting Vinny Testaverde facts - 2 time Pro-Bowler - 20 time Super Bowl spectator (not in uniform) - played in 225 games - 56.6% career completion percentage - 45,252 career yards - 269 career tds - 261 career ints - consistently not among top 10 QB's when actively starting granted Vinny has 4K more yards than Joe Cool but he also played 33 more games ... which averages out to roughly 142 yards/game ... which i think everyone could agree that even Michael Vick could pass for an average of 142 yards/game (DO NOT START THIS INTO A MICHAEL VICK THREAD) ... point is, Vinny played average at QB, his yardage is not spectacular since it averages out to 200 yards/game ... his td to int ratio is certainly nothing to brag about and neither is his completion percentage bottom line ... the only way vinny gets into the HOF is if he pays the admission price replace the name "Vinny Interceptre" with "Kenny Anderson" and you've got a thread worth discussing. Kenny A not in is a sham (not right to compare to Montana, but let's get the stats of many others in the HOF) IF Vinny gets in, let everyone in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Cumulative career statistics don't mean as much in football as they do in baseball (or, at least DID in baseball). Someone in baseball who is in the top 10 in several meaningful offensive categories in his career probably gets into the HOF. It doesn't mean that much in football. I think that's because baseball is much more of an individual sport than football. In any case, Testaverde was never a dominant player in his career. He had a couple of decent years, but his career stats are solely a function of longevity. No way he's HOF material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) A lot of people forget about how good he was I think you're exactly right Bill. It also seems as though people have been trying to write him off the past several years. Last season he battled some injuries and missed some games, but he has bounced back this year and is putting together a very solid season and showing that he's not finished yet. Though he may be just a good WR now who is only adding to his statistical totals, it seems like a lot of people forget that he was one of the most feared WRs in the NFL earlier in his career. I mean, in 1995 he put together a 119-catch / 1,781 yard / 13 TD season. That's phenomenal stuff. Edit: By the way Rai, sorry to hijack your Vinny T thread. Edited November 27, 2006 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Cumulative career statistics don't mean as much in football as they do in baseball (or, at least DID in baseball). Someone in baseball who is in the top 10 in several meaningful offensive categories in his career probably gets into the HOF. It doesn't mean that much in football. I think that's because baseball is much more of an individual sport than football. In any case, Testaverde was never a dominant player in his career. He had a couple of decent years, but his career stats are solely a function of longevity. No way he's HOF material. Not to hijack the thread, but how do you feel about Terrell Davis? Seems like him and Vinny may be on opposite sides of the HOF mountain; short career where you are at the top or long career where you are never at the top but career numbers are high. I think HOF should have both qualities with more emphasis on being the best at your position at your time (or at least top 3-4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Vinny T? Oh... you were serious? Sorry..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Agreed. I'm from NJ and have always liked Vinny, but there is absolutely no way in friggin' hell that Vinny is getting into Canton without a ticket. Even with a ticket, he'll probably need to go on a day when it isn't really busy to be sure of getting in. He was a good QB, but the Hall should be reserved for the absolute best of the best. Not your cousin vinnie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Not to hijack the thread, but how do you feel about Terrell Davis? Seems like him and Vinny may be on opposite sides of the HOF mountain; short career where you are at the top or long career where you are never at the top but career numbers are high. I think HOF should have both qualities with more emphasis on being the best at your position at your time (or at least top 3-4). Unlike the 70s and 80s (Sayers, Earl Campbell), they don't let flashes-in-the-pan into Canton anymore. TD and Priest will not get in. It's unfortunate that they couldn't have longer careers, because both were awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEdway Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) Cumulative career statistics don't mean as much in football as they do in baseball (or, at least DID in baseball). Someone in baseball who is in the top 10 in several meaningful offensive categories in his career probably gets into the HOF. It doesn't mean that much in football. I think that's because baseball is much more of an individual sport than football. In any case, Testaverde was never a dominant player in his career. He had a couple of decent years, but his career stats are solely a function of longevity. No way he's HOF material. Exactly, and the same goes for Curtis Martin. Edited November 27, 2006 by MrEdway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 No ... no more than Bledsoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Exactly, and the same goes for Curtis Martin. Noooooooooooo! Comparing CuMar to Vinny is ridiculous - Curtis Martin was among the top players at his position for many years, whereas Vinny was a starter at his position for many years, no more and no less. I think Curtis Martin belongs. I also think that calling Earl Campbell a flash-in-the-pan is equally absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Noooooooooooo! Comparing CuMar to Vinny is ridiculous - Curtis Martin was among the top players at his position for many years, whereas Vinny was a starter at his position for many years, no more and no less. I think Curtis Martin belongs. I also think that calling Earl Campbell a flash-in-the-pan is equally absurd. It would be a crime not to put CuMar in the HoF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Comparing CuMar to Vinny is ridiculous - Curtis Martin was among the top players at his position for many years, whereas Vinny was a starter at his position for many years, no more and no less. I think Curtis Martin belongs. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilly Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 You gotta have the Pro Bowl appearances if you want to be in the HOF. 2 Pro Bowls in 20 years just don't cut it. I DO think T. Davis should get in, but not on the first ballot. Somewhere down the line though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) Noooooooooooo! Comparing CuMar to Vinny is ridiculous - Curtis Martin was among the top players at his position for many years, whereas Vinny was a starter at his position for many years, no more and no less. I think Curtis Martin belongs. +1 I also think that calling Earl Campbell a flash-in-the-pan is equally absurd. Campbell had three stellar seasons, two good seasons, and four additional injury-plagued seasons with little production before being forced into retirement. He wasn't an elite back for very long and there's no way in hell he'd get into Canton if he had played in this era. Edited November 27, 2006 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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