Got a major problem, really looking for some thoughts

[Chief Dick]

You are correct, because dogs are pack animals. However, with any new addition to the family/pack, the dog is going to be driven to determine where the new addition stands in the pack. However, it isn't your status as Alpha male that's being explored by the dog: it's the dogs relationship to the kid. And if you, as the Alpha Male, do not act to define your pack's new hierarchy, most dogs will seek to do so on their own, often by demonstrating gradually increasing dominant behavior over the pack's new addition. Most dogs can't help it; it's in their nature. Thus, it is imperative that dog owning parents hawk over the situation and act accordingly, with both dog and child. Being the Alpha Male means you actually have to assert yourself as such, or you run the risk of the dog acting out of turn.

 

 

Exactly, and that's what my wife and I have done. We let them know early where they stand in relation to the baby. And when my son starts to approach my dogs, the first thing my dogs do is raise their heads and look at me. And my reaction is to always address their names in a stern voice, basically warning them if they make a move they are in deep sh.it.

 

That being said, I still don't let my son play unsupervised anywhere near my dogs.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Chief Dick

[broncosn05]

It's clear the kid has to go.

 

 

BTW Hugh. I agree with the chief.

Edited December 7, 2006 by broncosn05

[Ursa Majoris]

You are correct, because dogs are pack animals. However, with any new addition to the family/pack, the dog is going to be driven to determine where the new addition stands in the pack. However, it isn't your status as Alpha male that's being explored by the dog: it's the dogs relationship to the kid. And if you, as the Alpha Male, do not act to define your pack's new hierarchy, most dogs will seek to do so on their own, often by demonstrating gradually increasing dominant behavior over the pack's new addition. Most dogs can't help it; it's in their nature. Thus, it is imperative that dog owning parents hawk over the situation and act accordingly, with both dog and child. Being the Alpha Male means you actually have to assert yourself as such, or you run the risk of the dog acting out of turn.

 

Thou art wise, Yo Person.

[yo mama]

Thou art wise, Yo Person.

 

You must be in the 1%.

[NSab]

Dogs can be trained, I have had Rotts for the last 20 years. My dogs all grew up with my kids. I have little ones around my 150lb+ dogs all the time, they love them. They are like big Teddy Bears, it is all in the training. I had one female years ago, who got to be a junkyard guard dog because she was untrainable. She had a major Alfa gene.

[NSab]

Thou art wise, Yo Person.

 

 

YoMama has it 100% accurate.

Edited December 8, 2006 by NSab

[Ursa Majoris]

YoMama has it 10% accurate.

 

You missing a zero off here, ol' Philly buddy?

[NSab]

You missing a zero off here, ol' Philly buddy?

 

 

Thanks Urs, you would think even 2 finger typing would improve over the .

[Jimmy Neutron]

It doesn't sound like you are the alpha in your master/dog relationship.

 

If you want to keep the dog and keep your kids safe, you need to show him who's boss. It may sould juvenile, but dogs are pack animals and it's what they understand.

 

I'm not suggesting you beat the dog or kick him around the house. You need to get down on all fours, and wrestle him rough and playful like until you decisively pin him a few times. The first time you do, get him on his back and bite his throat and growl like hell. It sounds wierd, but it works like nothing else.

[SteelBunz]

Lots of good thoughts here.....and AZ has been right all along, IMHO.

 

It's not enough that YOU are the alpha, NSab....ALL humans in the pack (including visitors) have to be looked at as alphas by your dogs.

 

Separation is not the answer either. But H1's problem goes back before there were any children. If I may ask Hughy....what did you do when you first noticed the dog growled when woken or you got in his face? And what have you done since? Just.....leave him alone? That isn't a correction.....he's "won" if you leave him alone. You've lost some of your Alpha status....if you just leave him be.

 

If it's unwanted behavior....it needs to be addressed, corrected and worked through. And it generally doesn't matter how old the dog is or how long it's been going on. It can be corrected.

Cesar does have some good techniques for this very behavior. But it requires calm/assertive behavior....not flying off the handle and beating.

 

And yes.....you teach your children how to behave around dogs. And when they are babies....no...they should never be left alone with any dog. But the dog has to be trained first in this situation. Kids are naturally "rough" with pets.....lol. Especially big dogs. Correcting the child is fine and necessary.....but the dog has to be able to take it before that correction comes.

 

But above all.....it's all about your comfort zone. If you don't feel up to the task....then you need to find a new home for the dog. If you're nervous or worried around the dog when the child is in the room....the dog will know it. Your dogs are way past "puppy behavior"....so they should be very good at learning new rules and behaviors. But it takes some work. Work with the dog.....force the behavior the rear it's ugly head...then correct it. And keep correcting it until he no longer displays it.

 

Dogs aren't "throwaways"...but they aren't children either or as important as children.

 

As an aside....I had a dog that was prone to seizures. I suspected early on that he had a REM sleep problem....honest to God. People who can fall dead asleep quickly exhibit the same symptoms. But waking him out of a dead sleep with a jolt was a big NoNo....he would snap. But....he was still half asleep. My sister is the same way....she wakes up throwing punches......LOL.

[Ursa Majoris]

My sister is the same way....she wakes up throwing punches......LOL.

 

That's right, she does.

 

[SteelBunz]

That's right, she does.

 

 

[The Holy Roller]

It doesn't sound like you are the alpha in your master/dog relationship.

 

If you want to keep the dog and keep your kids safe, you need to show him who's boss. It may sould juvenile, but dogs are pack animals and it's what they understand.

 

I'm not suggesting you beat the dog or kick him around the house. You need to get down on all fours, and wrestle him rough and playful like until you decisively pin him a few times. The first time you do, get him on his back and bite his throat and growl like hell. It sounds wierd, but it works like nothing else.

 

 

Mrs HR does this kind of crap to me all the time.

[Jimmy Neutron]

Mrs HR does this kind of crap to me all the time.

 

 

Outstanding! Does she put the shock collar on you too?

[Bier Meister]

Mrs HR does this kind of crap to me all the time.

 

 

 

i really don't want to hear about what you guys do with peanut butter

[The Holy Roller]

Outstanding! Does she put the shock collar on you too?

 

 

She said it was just a stimulator!

[Grits and Shins]

While the dog did not actually bite the child it did exhibit agressive behavior toward that child. The next time that aggressive behavior could result in a bite.

 

I understand that H1 applied immediate corporeal punishment (as I would have) and will likely begin a training program for both the child and the animal in an attempt to shape desired behavior.

 

It is worth noting that no amount of training and reinforcement ensures 100% complaince with the desired behavior from both the child and the animal, ESPECIALLY since the child does not know the nature of the danger.

 

The health and welfare of the child should be paramount, period. Personally when I faced this type of decision I maintained a seperation between animals and children. I could never forgive myself if a dog I owned bit one of my children because I failed to act when the dog first exhibited aggressive behavior towards the child.

[whomper]

Very tough call hugh..We have 2 female goldendoodles (sisters) that just turned 1 in October. My wife and I decided to get them at 8 weeks rather then adopt an older dog stricly because we wanted them to grow up as little pups with my kids so they were used to them from the very beginning of their lives..Obviously you didnt have that option.

 

My dogs are luckily very very docile..They are actually insanely over friendly and love to jump on people but rarely show aggression . My Kids are 6 and 3.5 My little one has pulled the dogs hair and whacked them before ..We immediately seperate them but the dogs usually just walk away from them..One time the dog did growl at my little one..She didnt snap at them it was just a warning growl because she was pulling the dogs ears..I did the same thing as Chief..Eventhough my little one was annoying the hell out of this dog the dog needs to be disciplined bigtime and it needs to be harsh. I whacked her and said NO similar to how Chief did it.

 

Although the welfare of your child and family is the most important thing in the world the dog warned your kid and didnt bite. The dog has been a good loyal dog to you for 7 years. You need to do everything you possibly can to make sure your son and future baby are not alone with the dog and you need train the dog. I PMMed you information of the trainer we used that will probably travel to your neck of the woods..This guy was a great trainer.Our dogs learned the 5 basic commands and have seriously curbed the crazy jumping on people due to methods he taught us..You are going to use a pinch collar if you use this guy..He is a very discipline oriented guy..(Black belt martial arts instructor as well as certified master dog trainer) I think this could work. You should look into this and talk to some professionals before you give up a dog that has been a good dog to you..You do need to get training involved and work out a way to make sure your son will not be alone with the dog..Thats going to be the hard part you have to figure out..If the dog keeps it up though and nothing seems like its working then unfortunately Twileys advice is the way to go..Good luck bro

[whomper]

My business partner has a scar along his left eye that was the result of a weimie.

 

 

 

 

Kevin ????

[NSab]

Lots of good thoughts here.....and AZ has been right all along, IMHO.

 

It's not enough that YOU are the alpha, NSab....ALL humans in the pack (including visitors) have to be looked at as alphas by your dogs.

 

Separation is not the answer either. But H1's problem goes back before there were any children. If I may ask Hughy....what did you do when you first noticed the dog growled when woken or you got in his face? And what have you done since? Just.....leave him alone? That isn't a correction.....he's "won" if you leave him alone. You've lost some of your Alpha status....if you just leave him be.

 

If it's unwanted behavior....it needs to be addressed, corrected and worked through. And it generally doesn't matter how old the dog is or how long it's been going on. It can be corrected.

Cesar does have some good techniques for this very behavior. But it requires calm/assertive behavior....not flying off the handle and beating.

 

And yes.....you teach your children how to behave around dogs. And when they are babies....no...they should never be left alone with any dog. But the dog has to be trained first in this situation. Kids are naturally "rough" with pets.....lol. Especially big dogs. Correcting the child is fine and necessary.....but the dog has to be able to take it before that correction comes.

 

But above all.....it's all about your comfort zone. If you don't feel up to the task....then you need to find a new home for the dog. If you're nervous or worried around the dog when the child is in the room....the dog will know it. Your dogs are way past "puppy behavior"....so they should be very good at learning new rules and behaviors. But it takes some work. Work with the dog.....force the behavior the rear it's ugly head...then correct it. And keep correcting it until he no longer displays it.

 

Dogs aren't "throwaways"...but they aren't children either or as important as children.

 

As an aside....I had a dog that was prone to seizures. I suspected early on that he had a REM sleep problem....honest to God. People who can fall dead asleep quickly exhibit the same symptoms. But waking him out of a dead sleep with a jolt was a big NoNo....he would snap. But....he was still half asleep. My sister is the same way....she wakes up throwing punches......LOL.

 

 

 

Bunz i am fully aware that the dog needs to know he is in the bottom rung, look at the earlier post in this thread. I have been raising Rotts for 20 years.

[H8tank]

Do you keep a loaded gun around the house?

 

For every one of you people who think you can control an animals behavior, I can show you 10 stories of 'nice' doggies who ate a baby.

 

Some risks you don't take.

 

 

All the reasons you give, I'm the alpha male, blah blah, what happens when a male lion goes down? The younger lions eat his young. So what happens the next weekend you stay out all night? Yep, dead baby's.

[Ursa Majoris]

Do you keep a loaded gun around the house?

 

For every one of you people who think you can control an animals behavior, I can show you 10 stories of 'nice' doggies who ate a baby.

 

Some risks you don't take.

All the reasons you give, I'm the alpha male, blah blah, what happens when a male lion goes down? The younger lions eat his young. So what happens the next weekend you stay out all night? Yep, dead baby's.

 

So, another heavy drinking session, eh?

[Hugh 0ne]

Do you keep a loaded gun around the house?

 

For every one of you people who think you can control an animals behavior, I can show you 10 stories of 'nice' doggies who ate a baby.

 

Some risks you don't take.

All the reasons you give, I'm the alpha male, blah blah, what happens when a male lion goes down? The younger lions eat his young. So what happens the next weekend you stay out all night? Yep, dead baby's.

 

 

You're really not this retarded, are you? I don't, and never have, left my dogs unattended with my children. Ever. I am the alpha dog in this relationship, that I can assure you of. The dog knows very well where he stands. As soon as the incident was occuring, I got up and yelled "no" at the same time. He ran the other way because he knew what he had done and knew what was coming. He was sending a message to my son that he didn't want him in his face. That is obviously 100% unacceptable behavior. So, I have 2 options: get rid of the dog, or keep him. If I decide to keep him, I will be responsible for training my son, training the dogs, and training myself to make sure nothing like this can ever happen. This dog is a part of my family, and has been for 7 years, so I don't want to give up on him if it is something that can be controlled/corrected. That being said, obviously my child and his safety are my number 1 priority, and I will not compromise that, but am willing to make an effort to make this work.

 

Thanks again to everyone for taking their time and offering their well thought out responses, even you H8T.

[Hugh 0ne]

So, another heavy drinking session, eh?

 

 

Ahhh, 3:05 am, maybe I shouldn't have called him retarded.

[Caveman_Nick]

Ahhh, 3:05 am, maybe I shouldn't have called him retarded.

 

 

Drinking and retardation can coexist...

 

As far as the whole 'the dog was just warning the kid' angle goes, I have to ask...what was the dog warning?

 

Ooh...I know...he was warning "If you mess with me, I'll bite your ass".

Edited December 8, 2006 by Caveman_Nick