Good News for Michigan Fans

[Rockerbraves]

Michigan can still win a NC...Sure they can, if past history is any indication. Wouldn't it be ironic if the very thing (subjective voters) that kept Michigan out of the NC game later decide to give them an AP National Championship. Don't laugh, it can happen. Here's just one scenario. Florida beats Ohio State in typical Gator ugly fashion say something like 23-21 by a freak late TD off a turnover while Michigan destroys the #5 ranked USC Trojans by a final score of say 31-3.

 

Can't tell me some of these wishy-washy voters wouldn't do an about face and VOTE the Wolverines #1 over the Gators. Again, this is not that far fetched. So don't give up all you Michigan fans. There's still hope of becoming the AP National Championship if the media doesn't like the outcome of the BCS National Championship. Granted it may be a mythical NC, but it's the next best thing to a BCS National Championship.

 

PS: All you Wolverine & Big 10 fans might want to tell Coach Carr to keep politicking since it obviously worked for Pete Carroll & his Trojans in 2003, Mack Brown and his Texas Longhorns in getting the 2004 Rose Bowl bid over California and again this year for Urban "Cryer" Meyers and his Gators. Bring on the Playoffs...pretty please.

 

PS PS: I'm writing Louisiana Governor Mrs. Blanco asking her to start our LSU Tigers campaign right now.

 

LSU/SEC Fan

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Michigan can still win a NC...Sure they can, if past history is any indication. Wouldn't it be ironic if the very thing (subjective voters) that kept Michigan out of the NC game later decide to give them an AP National Championship. Don't laugh, it can happen. Here's just one scenario. Florida beats Ohio State in typical Gator ugly fashion say something like 23-21 by a freak late TD off a turnover while Michigan destroys the #5 ranked USC Trojans by a final score of say 31-3.

 

Can't tell me some of these wishy-washy voters wouldn't do an about face and VOTE the Wolverines #1 over the Gators. Again, this is not that far fetched. So don't give up all you Michigan fans. There's still hope of becoming the AP National Championship if the media doesn't like the outcome of the BCS National Championship. Granted it may be a mythical NC, but it's the next best thing to a BCS National Championship.

 

PS: All you Wolverine & Big 10 fans might want to tell Coach Carr to keep politicking since it obviously worked for Pete Carroll & his Trojans in 2003, Mack Brown and his Texas Longhorns in getting the 2004 Rose Bowl bid over California and again this year for Urban "Cryer" Meyers and his Gators. Bring on the Playoffs...pretty please.

 

PS PS: I'm writing Louisiana Governor Mrs. Blanco asking her to start our LSU Tigers campaign right now.

 

LSU/SEC Fan

 

 

 

 

While I agree that there is a chacne this might happen, it's highly unlikely. The big difference between now and 2003, is the team that was #1 in both polls got left out in 2003, despite being vastly superior to both teams in the BCS title game. This year, Michigan is #3 in the AP Poll, and Ohio State is #1. A Florida win over #1 Ohio State, no matter how it happens, will be viewed as very impressive. If Michigan does blow out USC, that would be it's only way, but the voters would have to be in "make up" mode, kinda like a make up call in an actual game.

[Bushey]

There is no true NC without a playoff. All other conversations or arguments are a waste of your time. Thank you. Go back to bed or work and don't worry about it until all that oppose of a playoff fall into the ocean and die. Have a nice day.

[Rockerbraves]

Brian we've been over this before. Did you forget? Both polls DID NOT have USC ranked #1 prior to the 2003 NC game selection process hence the whole debate as to which team deserved to play LSU that year. OK was being touted by the AP voters prior to their lost to Kansas State to be the best team in the history of college football and backed that up giving them the most #1 points ever.

 

The "what if at a neutral site" bets prior to the NC selection being made had OK favored over LSU by 8 and USC by 10. So it's crazy to say USC got left out despite being a vastly superior to both teams. In fact Michigan has a better case for being in the NC game than USC did back then based off the betting lines. Most would have had Michigan a 3 to 3 1/2 point underdog to Ohio State.

 

Why do you continue to give the AP poll more credence than the other polls. Ask yourself this question. What does the AP poll really mean? Do you agree with the AP that Florida is a better football team than Michigan? Did you think USC was the better football team than Michigan two weeks ago like the AP thought?

 

The point I'm making is that they the media can name/vote ANY TEAM they want as their AP national champions. Michigan ironically is in the same position as USC was that year except their roles have been reversed. This time it's Michigan with the outside shot at being VOTED the AP's NC.

[Pope Flick]

An AP championship certainly held credibility before the BCS series was put into place, but given the situation there is no credibility to a "split championship" like back in the day when it was AP/UPI.

 

It is a different era: the winner of the Fiesta Bowl is the #1 team in the nation, like it or not no matter what any other poll says. USC's claim in 2003 is very very weak.

[neilfish2]

 

PS PS: I'm writing Louisiana Governor Mrs. Blanco asking her to start our LSU Tigers campaign right now.

 

LSU/SEC Fan

 

 

Do me a favor leave that stupid woman out of it. Contact Bobby instead, he will be the next Gov.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Brian we've been over this before. Did you forget? Both polls DID NOT have USC ranked #1 prior to the 2003 NC game selection process hence the whole debate as to which team deserved to play LSU that year. OK was being touted by the AP voters prior to their lost to Kansas State to be the best team in the history of college football and backed that up giving them the most #1 points ever.

 

The "what if at a neutral site" bets prior to the NC selection being made had OK favored over LSU by 8 and USC by 10. So it's crazy to say USC got left out despite being a vastly superior to both teams. In fact Michigan has a better case for being in the NC game than USC did back then based off the betting lines. Most would have had Michigan a 3 to 3 1/2 point underdog to Ohio State.

 

Why do you continue to give the AP poll more credence than the other polls. Ask yourself this question. What does the AP poll really mean? Do you agree with the AP that Florida is a better football team than Michigan? Did you think USC was the better football team than Michigan two weeks ago like the AP thought?

 

The point I'm making is that they the media can name/vote ANY TEAM they want as their AP national champions. Michigan ironically is in the same position as USC was that year except their roles have been reversed. This time it's Michigan with the outside shot at being VOTED the AP's NC.

 

 

After Kansas State routed Oklahoma, USC was #1 in both polls. That is a fact. Look it up. It was only after the Bowl games, did LSU jump to #1 (by contract) in the coaches polls (which gave them the crystal football.) And I don't give two sh|ts what vegas oddsmakers had/have. I saw with my own two eyes, that USC was the best team that year, and that's good enough for me.

 

And my only point was that you claim that there could be a split for Michigan, I say that it is highly unlikely. The AP voters would vote for Florida if they did something Michigan couldn't do (rightfully so).

[GWPFFL BrianW]

An AP championship certainly held credibility before the BCS series was put into place, but given the situation there is no credibility to a "split championship" like back in the day when it was AP/UPI.

 

It is a different era: the winner of the Fiesta Bowl is the #1 team in the nation, like it or not no matter what any other poll says. USC's claim in 2003 is very very weak.

 

 

well according to www.ncaasports.org it isn't THAT weak.

[Pope Flick]

well according to www.ncaasports.org it isn't THAT weak.

 

 

 

Fine - but if you want to equate an AP chamionship with the BCS title in the "BCS Era" with the same legitimacy of past split titles then why are they using the BCS in the first place?

 

More fuel to the fire to bag it altogether, imo.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Fine - but if you want to equate an AP chamionship with the BCS title in the "BCS Era" with the same legitimacy of past split titles then why are they using the BCS in the first place?

 

More fuel to the fire to bag it altogether, imo.

 

 

I couldn't agree more, but the idea of the possibility of split titles was always there. Back in 1998, the first year of the BCS, it was quite possible that if FSU beat Tennessee, that Ohio State might have claimed the AP title, while FSU took the BCS. 1999 there was rumblings that 1 loss Nebraska might nab up the AP crown if Va Tech had won. 2001 would have most certainly been a split title, if FSU beat Oklahoma, as Miami was already ahead of FSU in the AP Poll at the time. 2002, 2004, and 2005, have been the only years where the split title was not really going to be a possibility.

[Rockerbraves]

After Kansas State routed Oklahoma, USC was #1 in both polls. That is a fact. Look it up. It was only after the Bowl games, did LSU jump to #1 (by contract) in the coaches polls (which gave them the crystal football.) And I don't give two sh|ts what vegas oddsmakers had/have. I saw with my own two eyes, that USC was the best team that year, and that's good enough for me.

 

And my only point was that you claim that there could be a split for Michigan, I say that it is highly unlikely. The AP voters would vote for Florida if they did something Michigan couldn't do (rightfully so).

 

 

Brian are you one of those who still believes Gore should have been made President because he won the popular vote regardless of the election rules. That seems to be your only arguement. The fact that USC was #1 in two of the polls used in the final BCS calculations and still finished #3 in the official BCS poll only demonstrates just how weak USC’s case was that season. So I don't see how it's that far fetched if Florida were to win by a fluke play and Michigan soundly beats the BCS #5 team in the Rose that the voters in the AP wouldn't go back to ranking Michigan over the Gators like they had done for the past several weeks

[SaintsFanUnfortunately]

Brian are you one of those who still believes Gore should have been made President because he won the popular vote regardless of the election rules. That seems to be your only arguement. The fact that USC was #1 in two of the polls used in the final BCS calculations and still finished #3 in the official BCS poll only demonstrates just how weak USC’s case was that season. So I don't see how it's that far fetched if Florida were to win by a fluke play and Michigan soundly beats the BCS #5 team in the Rose that the voters in the AP wouldn't go back to ranking Michigan over the Gators like they had done for the past several weeks

 

Gore...

Michigan is possible in AP...

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Yeah we got the same argument this year about strength of schedule and what not. The truth is, the Big 12 was highly overrated in 2003, which is why Oklahoma ran roughshod over everyone. Sorry but if you're putting up 60 + a game against some of the best competition on your schedule, typically your opponents aren't that good, but Oklahoma got a lot of credit for all of those wins. Then you have USC, who lost to Cal yes, but went into Auburn and shut them out in the opener, and went through a tougher conference. Washington State proved that in the Holiday Bowl against Texas, Oklahoma's biggest win. Bottom line, is the top 4 teams in the Big 12 that year, all lost in their bowl games. Why do I bring this up? Because your great computer polls saved Oklahoma. Yet you want to put more credence in that? It's somehow completely out of whack that the media AND coaches viewed one team as the clear cut #1 team in the country? It wasn't like USC struggled in their bowl game. They knocked off an outstanding Michigan team by 14 points in the Rose Bowl. And then validated their claim, by rattling an undefeated season in 2004, and stamping that with a 55-19 demolishing over an even BETTER Sooner team than they had in 03. And I'm not even discounting LSU's title. I think a split title, given the circumstances of the flawed system, was the right thing to do, and actually, should have happened in 2004 as well wtih Auburn. The reason I think LSU fans get upset about this, isn't because of a split title, it's because USC was so dominant in 2004, and 2005, and the media, and most fans forget about them.

[Rockerbraves]

Here is week 15 AP Top 3. As you can see there is only a 3 point difference between Florida and Michigan.

If Florida beats Ohio in an ugly tight game don't you think the potential for AP voters not under BCS contract could jump Michigan ahead of both teams if the Wolverines handled the Trojans with relative ease? AP is a subjective poll not a computer poll so anything is possible. I can hear the AP voters now sayin "And I don't give two sh|ts what the computers had/have. I saw with my own two eyes, that Michigan was the best team this year, and that's good enough for me."

 

 

Week 15 AP Top 25

RANK TEAM RECORD PTS

1. Ohio State (65) 12-0 1625 1

2. Florida 12-1 1529 4

3. Michigan 11-1 1526 3

Edited December 9, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[GOB1]

Here is week 15 AP Top 3. As you can see there is only a 3 point difference between Florida and Michigan.

If Florida beats Ohio in an ugly tight game don't you think the potential for AP voters not under BCS contract could jump Michigan ahead of both teams if the Wolverines handled the Trojans with relative ease? AP is a subjective poll not a computer poll so anything is possible. I can hear the AP voters now sayin "And I don't give two sh|ts what the computers had/have. I saw with my own two eyes, that Michigan was the best team this year, and that's good enough for me."

Week 15 AP Top 25

RANK TEAM RECORD PTS

1. Ohio State (65) 12-0 1625 1

2. Florida 12-1 1529 4

3. Michigan 11-1 1526 3

 

I dont think Urban Crier will allow that. He will start campaigning soon. Besides, no way in hell florida beats

the Buckeyes.

[detlef]

Yeah we got the same argument this year about strength of schedule and what not. The truth is, the Big 12 was highly overrated in 2003, which is why Oklahoma ran roughshod over everyone. Sorry but if you're putting up 60 + a game against some of the best competition on your schedule, typically your opponents aren't that good, but Oklahoma got a lot of credit for all of those wins. Then you have USC, who lost to Cal yes, but went into Auburn and shut them out in the opener, and went through a tougher conference. Washington State proved that in the Holiday Bowl against Texas, Oklahoma's biggest win. Bottom line, is the top 4 teams in the Big 12 that year, all lost in their bowl games. Why do I bring this up? Because your great computer polls saved Oklahoma. Yet you want to put more credence in that? It's somehow completely out of whack that the media AND coaches viewed one team as the clear cut #1 team in the country? It wasn't like USC struggled in their bowl game. They knocked off an outstanding Michigan team by 14 points in the Rose Bowl. And then validated their claim, by rattling an undefeated season in 2004, and stamping that with a 55-19 demolishing over an even BETTER Sooner team than they had in 03. And I'm not even discounting LSU's title. I think a split title, given the circumstances of the flawed system, was the right thing to do, and actually, should have happened in 2004 as well wtih Auburn. The reason I think LSU fans get upset about this, isn't because of a split title, it's because USC was so dominant in 2004, and 2005, and the media, and most fans forget about them.

 

Good stuff here.

[Rockerbraves]

Yeah we got the same argument this year about strength of schedule and what not. The truth is, the Big 12 was highly overrated in 2003, which is why Oklahoma ran roughshod over everyone. Sorry but if you're putting up 60 + a game against some of the best competition on your schedule, typically your opponents aren't that good, but Oklahoma got a lot of credit for all of those wins. Then you have USC, who lost to Cal yes, but went into Auburn and shut them out in the opener, and went through a tougher conference. Washington State proved that in the Holiday Bowl against Texas, Oklahoma's biggest win. Bottom line, is the top 4 teams in the Big 12 that year, all lost in their bowl games. Why do I bring this up? Because your great computer polls saved Oklahoma. Yet you want to put more credence in that? It's somehow completely out of whack that the media AND coaches viewed one team as the clear cut #1 team in the country? It wasn't like USC struggled in their bowl game. They knocked off an outstanding Michigan team by 14 points in the Rose Bowl. And then validated their claim, by rattling an undefeated season in 2004, and stamping that with a 55-19 demolishing over an even BETTER Sooner team than they had in 03. And I'm not even discounting LSU's title. I think a split title, given the circumstances of the flawed system, was the right thing to do, and actually, should have happened in 2004 as well wtih Auburn. The reason I think LSU fans get upset about this, isn't because of a split title, it's because USC was so dominant in 2004, and 2005, and the media, and most fans forget about them.

 

 

In hindsite good stuff. But isn't it always that way. Don't forget oddsmakers prior to the selection process had Oklahoma favored by 8 to 10 points over both LSU & USC. IMO if LSU would have beaten USC that year in the NC game and OK would have beaten Michigan by 14 even LSU fans would have wondered what if.

 

AP voters also know this year the oddsmakers had Michigan favored over Florida on a neutral field, so that might influence their decision when voting if the Gators do win on a bad call or fluke play.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[Rockerbraves]

I dont think Urban Crier will allow that. He will start campaigning soon. Besides, no way in hell florida beats

the Buckeyes.

 

 

When is Coach Carr gonna finally figure it out and start campaigning himself to the voters? Make no mistake about it the AP Poll is an election decided by who can influence the voters the most.

[Rockerbraves]

Why do I bring this up? Because your great computer polls saved Oklahoma. Yet you want to put more credence in that? It's somehow completely out of whack that the media AND coaches viewed one team as the clear cut #1 team in the country?

 

 

What? Talk about credence...clear cut #1...hmmm? That AP poll you want us all to put our credence into actually had Oklahoma the clear cut #1 all season including week 16 where the Sooners grabbed all 65 first place votes along with 1625 points. At the mid season mark week 8 the Sooners were #1 with 59 first place votes while those same pollsters thought USC was #9 and gave then zero first place votes. How does that build up credence? Heck once USC did get the vote to be #1 they only grabbed 42 first place votes. How does that make them clear cut #1?

[GWPFFL BrianW]

You're wanting to bring oddsmakers into that equation, yet they arent in the equation at all. USC was #1 in not only the AP poll, but the coaches as well. I wouldn't say Oklahoma or LSU woulda beat that Michigan team by 14. Michigan went 10-2 in one of the toughest conferences that year. Keep in mind, they handled Ohio State fairly easily and Ohio State knocked of the Big 12 champions in the Fiesta Bowl that year. Not to mention my hawkeyes destroyed the same team that went into death valley and handed your LSU team it's only blemish of the year. USC beat the champion of that very solid conference by double figures. It shouldn't be taken lightly at all. As I said, I really don't understand what the fuss is all about anyway. LSU got the Crystal Football, you'd think there fans wouldn't care at all about whether or not USC has staked a claim ( a good one IMO) at the 03' title. Anyone can claim that their claim is weak, but the NCAA doesn't. They view the 2003 season as a season which featured a split title, and thats good enough for me.

[Rockerbraves]

You're wanting to bring oddsmakers into that equation, yet they arent in the equation at all. USC was #1 in not only the AP poll, but the coaches as well.

 

 

Why not bring up the professional handicappers vs. the media handicappers. Do you seriously believe the guy who occassionally writes a football article for a newspaper or some other type of media knows more about handicapping football than the guys who make their living 24/7 handicapping games? Don't think so. Not really sure where you got the idea about the coaches poll unless you were referring to the poll prior to the bowl games?

 

The purpose in bringing up the professional handicappers is to validate how computer polls can often be more accurate than a subjective poll like the AP or even the BCS poll today that gives more credence to the subjective voter. In previous posts you indicated how you believe that many many people including yourself are convinced Michigan is the better team than Florida yet the AP & even the new formulated BCS polls have the Wolverines ranked behind the Gators. Now getting back to the professional handicappers. Believe it or not like you, they think that Michigan is the better team than Florida on a neutral (glendale) field. Can't tell me that doesn't make you wonder if these professional handicappers might just know a little something about football?

[GWPFFL BrianW]

I don't need anyone to tell me or illustrate to me that Michigan is better than Florida. I've seen both of them play, and Michigan, IMO, is the better of the two. And yes, this whole discussion was about how in 2003, USC was #1 in BOTH polls before the bowl games. The ONLY reason LSU overtook them in the coaches poll at all, is because the Coaches Poll represents that Crystal Trophy. Coaches by contract have to vote the winner of the "National Championship" game as #1. Why do you think there were so many cases of coaches wanting to breach the contract and vote USC anyway. They were popping up everywhere. They all knew. No one was hotter than USC at the end of that year. LSU was a great defensive team, but even they would have a tough time stopping Colbert, Williams, Bush, White, Leinart... not to mention USC has a pretty good defense themselves that year too, they held a very potent Michigan offense to only 14 points in the Rose Bowl.

 

My point in all of this, is you said I put credence in only the AP poll. That is not true. I put credence in my own 2 eyes. I bring up 2003, because how can a team that is viewed as #1 in both polls, #1 by so many people, be left out? I can understand #2. But I can't understand #1. As for this year... I say good luck to Florida, hope they enjoy the butt whipping they receive, and I'll leave it at that. I say Michigan is the better team, but the better team doesn't necesarily get to play in the title game. I just think it's ridiculous the way it all went down, and just proves what a flawed system it is, when one year Nebraska can give up 60 + in there season finale against a lower ranked team, not play in there own conference championship game (let alone win it) and still make the championship game; yet Michigan loses by 3 points on the road against the #1 ranked team in the country in their season finale and gets left out. Oklahoma gets throttled in their championship game, yet still makes it, but Michigan doesn't. To me, it's just hilarious too look at it all, and see these pollsters trying to justify it.

[Rockerbraves]

The ONLY reason LSU overtook them in the coaches poll at all, is because the Coaches Poll represents that Crystal Trophy. Coaches by contract have to vote the winner of the "National Championship" game as #1. Why do you think there were so many cases of coaches wanting to breach the contract and vote USC anyway.

 

My point in all of this, is you said I put credence in only the AP poll. That is not true. I put credence in my own 2 eyes. I bring up 2003, because how can a team that is viewed as #1 in both polls, #1 by so many people, be left out? I can understand #2. But I can't understand #1.

 

Ok slow down now brian. There are more than 2 polls used in the BCS. So like I said before that only indicates how underserving USC was that year if they were ranked #1 in two of the polls used and still landed in 3rd place in the only poll that counts the BCS poll.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[Rockerbraves]

 

I just think it's ridiculous the way it all went down, and just proves what a flawed system it is, when one year Nebraska can give up 60 + in there season finale against a lower ranked team, not play in there own conference championship game (let alone win it) and still make the championship game; yet Michigan loses by 3 points on the road against the #1 ranked team in the country in their season finale and gets left out. Oklahoma gets throttled in their championship game, yet still makes it, but Michigan doesn't. To me, it's just hilarious too look at it all, and see these pollsters trying to justify it.

 

Welcome to my world. Now you know how the LSU fan feels when they played by the rules and won the damn NC on the playing field, yet pollsters try to justify by speculation why they shouldn't be NC.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

But see, they got the NC so what do you care? Like I said, a lot of this USC hatred is because a lot of LSU fans have some inferiority complex or something, because USC is viewed by nearly anyone as 2 time national champions. To me, enjoy the title you did get. I mean at the end of the day, LSU has that nice beautiful Crystal Football, and USC doesn't from 2003. But if USC wants to lay claim to a NC game (which the NCAA recognizes) then so be it.