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rattsass

Fantasy Playoff seeding question

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I am in a 12 team league. As usual I was in the best division with 2 other very good teams. 3 teams from my division ended up 9-4. The other playoff teams were 8-5, 7-6, and 6-6-1.

 

Yet the teams that were 9-4 are seeded 4-5 and the division winners were awarded the 2-3 seed.

 

The upshot is that all 3 of us that spent the season beating everyone else up, all find ourselves on the same side of the playoff bracket, meaning only one of us will get a chance at the championship, and will not have the chance to face one of the best teams in the championship.

 

Do any of you think this system is fair? Isn't it kind of outdated? Does anybody still play like this besides us? And if so, why?

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2 leagues, each with two divisions. In one league, division winners are seeded #1 and #2, and the next six based on record (total points the tie-breaker).

 

Other league has 2 divisions with only 10 teams. Divison winners are top seeds and receive bye. 2nd and 3rd place in each division play each other... winner plays each respective division winner. Division champions play in the Super Bowl.

 

First scenario is pretty much standard. Second scenario has occasionally eliminated a team with a better overall record than possibly one in another division. Hard to complain, because most of the owners have benefited both ways, and we're all in agreement that we don't want 8 teams in the playoffs. League is also set up so we play own division teams twice during the year, and the other division just once. So it really kind of ends up like a true Super Bowl.

 

Good luck in your playoffs.

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I am in a 12 team league. As usual I was in the best division with 2 other very good teams. 3 teams from my division ended up 9-4. The other playoff teams were 8-5, 7-6, and 6-6-1.

 

Yet the teams that were 9-4 are seeded 4-5 and the division winners were awarded the 2-3 seed.

 

The upshot is that all 3 of us that spent the season beating everyone else up, all find ourselves on the same side of the playoff bracket, meaning only one of us will get a chance at the championship, and will not have the chance to face one of the best teams in the championship.

 

Do any of you think this system is fair? Isn't it kind of outdated? Does anybody still play like this besides us? And if so, why?

 

 

That sounds very outdated to me. I've always played in leagues that seed by:

 

1) Record

2) Points

 

If there is a tie then:

 

1) Head to head

2) Points

3) Division record

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i started a league this year with 1 division of 10 top 2 teams get byes, next 4 make the playoffs. everyone seems to have liked this. the other leagues i am in are both 2 divisions with division winners getting the bye and 2,3 playing. it always seems like there is a team that should be in the playoffs that doesnt get in because of a strong division. i have enjoyed the 1 division

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i found myself in the toughest divisions in most of my leagues this year. in leagues with 3 divisions it makes sense if you want to try to follow the nfl's way of establishing seeds (and i happen to like it). otherwise why have divsions? so no i don't think it's outdated, but i don't think it's crazy talk to think about getting creative with how you (and your leaguemates) want to seed.

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12 team, 3 division league, head to head. division winners are top 3 seeds, top 2 getting byes. 3 wildcards going by best record. since we did divisions we mimic the NFL as much as possible. In 7 years no one really complained. This year the 3rd highest scorer finished 7-7 but missed the playoffs because 2 other teams were tied with him for the last spot and he lost to both of them. He bitches now but it's always been head to head, so that's what you get.

 

If you want to take the top 6-8 teams, then why even have divisions?

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i found myself in the toughest divisions in most of my leagues this year. in leagues with 3 divisions it makes sense if you want to try to follow the nfl's way of establishing seeds (and i happen to like it). otherwise why have divsions? so no i don't think it's outdated, but i don't think it's crazy talk to think about getting creative with how you (and your leaguemates) want to seed.

 

Good info here. All my leagues give the divisional champs the top seeds regardless of record, same as the NFL. Nothing to stop you doing it otherwise though, if you want.

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In one of my 12 team leagues with 2 divisions we could have a team make the playoffs at 6-8 while another team at 9-5 is out

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The fair setup is the one you have agreed upon preseason.

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The fair setup is the one you have agreed upon preseason.

 

 

That isn't the issue. I am asking what is going on out there, and what people think is fair. Because I think setting it up where 3 divisional winners automatically get the 1-3 seeds does little to determine a true champion in the scenario I described. It is a system that is flawed in my opinion, and just wanted some input from others to see if my thoughts on the subject are out of whack. So that maybe before next season my league can agree upon a system that is more equitable.

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That isn't the issue. I am asking what is going on out there, and what people think is fair. Because I think setting it up where 3 divisional winners automatically get the 1-3 seeds does little to determine a true champion in the scenario I described. It is a system that is flawed in my opinion, and just wanted some input from others to see if my thoughts on the subject are out of whack. So that maybe before next season my league can agree upon a system that is more equitable.

 

You might want to consider going down to two divisions so that only two auto-seeds are given. Then the next best records can qualify from whichever division. In my two-div, 10-team league, we had all five from one division in the playoffs one year.

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If you really want to make things fair, award the biggest cash prize to the team with the most points at the end of the year. You can still have a playoff with a SB winner just make that prize 2nd to most points. That's what I have in a league eight years running and it's better than any playoff sysytem I've seen. Plus, in the playoffs anything can happen and the best team doesn't always win.

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3 Divs, 12 Teams here...

 

We used to seed 1-3 by Division Winners but switched to Overall Record a few years back... It was difficult to award a 7-7 division winner the 3rd seed OVER a 10-4 wildcard. It really didn't make much sense to us in a H2H league, regardless of the actual NFL set-up...

 

Basically, Division Winner or NOT, in my opinion you should have to earn your seed. Especially in a H2H League. BUT, it is YOUR LEAGUE, run it how you see fit.

 

Here's something to think about though... potentially awarding a 7-7 Div. Winner 3rd seed when he finished 6-0 in his div, BUT, 1-7 vs. the rest of the league just doesn't seem fair. Obviously he was in a weaker division, whereas, the 10-4 team may have finished (2-4) in his div. and 8-0 against the rest of the league (including a "W" vs the 7-7 team). Ultimately, who deserves it more? In a H2H League, it makes sense to award it to the team that won more H2H Battles.

 

Just my opinion...

Edited by Bulldog96

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In one of my 12 team leagues with 2 divisions we could have a team make the playoffs at 6-8 while another team at 9-5 is out

 

 

And I hope I am that 6-8 team

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Seems it's one of those what is "is" meaning define "fair". Cause is it fair 6 teams in the NFC make the playoffs this year? (I'm glad, but to tell me the Eagles and Giants are currently playoff teams, and the Bengals and Jets are not is not "fair" in some ways)

 

If you want to straight out reward the team with the most points, which in most cases would be looked at as the unvarnished "best" team (this year, also the LT team most likely), then do so. But that divorces Fantasy from Football - you're just stat gambling, not competing.

 

Assuming you do want the head to head competition, which may led to some unfairness (the 2nd highest scoring team in my main is out of the playoffs cause kept getting barely beat), but still want to be sure majority of it is fair, no more than two divisions, and seeding entirely based on points.

 

If you like the idea of staying closer to NFL, 2 or 3, div winners top seeds, then the rest seed out, and preferrably less than half the leage makes playoffs.

 

Personally, we do 2 div of 5 teams each, 4 playoff teams, including 2 div winners, then next best two. Div winners are 1/2 seeds, other two in order (record, head to head, points are tiebreaker). Most years, it works out pretty close (this year for instance - best team is 1 seed, worst of 4 playoff teams (mine) is 4 seed, and other two still figuring it out this week but doesn't matter at end of day)

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In my more "traditional" league, with 3 divisions and 12 teams, we just have a rule that the top two seeds that get the bye week cannot come from the same division (or, you must be a division champ to get a bye week). That's not much of a change -- and it can still load up all the good teams on one side of a playoff bracket.

 

Of all the factors that influence whether you win a fantasy football game -- matchups, injuries, etc. -- seeding strikes me as one of the most irrelevant. Obviously there's an advantage to getting a bye, but other than that, I'd rather play a 10-4 team with crappy matchups than a 6-8 team with great matchups.

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You know, the more I think about it I am starting to think that what is "fair" only in the mind of the beholder. I think if you are a very good player, you lean toward wanting to take the luck factor out as much as possible in determining a champion. And of course, you want to play with other good players to get there.

 

 

And if you are a so-so player, maybe you want to play in a system that occasionally rewards mediocrity.

Edited by rattsass

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I'm in a league with crazy playoff qualifiers, but just crazy enough to work.

 

12 teams, 3 divisions. Top three spots are given to division winners. Two of these are given byes.

 

The 4th and 5th seeds are determined by record. Tiebreakers are head-to-head then overall points.

 

The final (6th) playoff spot is determined by overall points for the season. The playoff matchups are determined by seeding. In the wildcard week, the 3rd seed (division winner) plays the 6th seed while the 4th and 5th seeds play.

 

In the second week of the playoffs, the #1 seed plays the wildcard winner with the lowest seeding. This keeps teams in suspense about who they play.

 

The way we determine the final playoff spot is supposed to reward a team which has had bad luck all year. A secondary motive is to keep more teams in the playoff race, by giving them two different ways to make the playoffs as a wildcard. It is hoped this keeps interest up, and keeps late season spoiler trades from happening.

 

It's a little funky, but no one has ever complained about it. This year, ten of the twelve teams were still in the playoff chase right into week 13 (the final week of our regular season).

Edited by Crackback

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i found myself in the toughest divisions in most of my leagues this year. in leagues with 3 divisions it makes sense if you want to try to follow the nfl's way of establishing seeds (and i happen to like it). otherwise why have divsions? so no i don't think it's outdated, but i don't think it's crazy talk to think about getting creative with how you (and your leaguemates) want to seed.

 

 

This is an outstanding answer.

 

If you are going to align into divisions, some years you'll have division winners with worse records than wildcard teams, and you may even end up with a division winner making the playoffs with a worse record than a team that misses the playoffs.

 

If you didn't want this situation, the solution was to not create divisions for the league.

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12 team, 3 division league, head to head. division winners are top 3 seeds, top 2 getting byes. 3 wildcards going by best record. since we did divisions we mimic the NFL as much as possible. In 7 years no one really complained. This year the 3rd highest scorer finished 7-7 but missed the playoffs because 2 other teams were tied with him for the last spot and he lost to both of them. He bitches now but it's always been head to head, so that's what you get.

 

If you want to take the top 6-8 teams, then why even have divisions?

 

 

 

also we had 10 of the 12 teams in it up to the last week. Never had a problem where a team with a better record missed the playoffs. Parity always seems to win out win out with the lower seeds. This was the only year probably that one of the top 3 scorers didnt' make it. But we're head to head, so that's how it goes.

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I'm in a league with crazy playoff qualifiers, but just crazy enough to work.

 

12 teams, 3 divisions. Top three spots are given to division winners. Two of these are given byes.

 

The 4th and 5th seeds are determined by record. Tiebreakers are head-to-head then overall points.

 

The final (6th) playoff spot is determined by overall points for the season. The playoff matchups are determined by seeding. In the wildcard week, the 3rd seed (division winner) plays the 6th seed while the 4th and 5th seeds play.

 

In the second week of the playoffs, the #1 seed plays the wildcard winner with the lowest seeding. This keeps teams in suspense about who they play.

 

The way we determine the final playoff spot is supposed to reward a team which has had bad luck all year. A secondary motive is to keep more teams in the playoff race, by giving them two different ways to make the playoffs as a wildcard. It is hoped this keeps interest up, and keeps late season spoiler trades from happening.

 

It's a little funky, but no one has ever complained about it. This year, ten of the twelve teams were still in the playoff chase right into week 13 (the final week of our regular season).

 

 

That's a very interesting way to determine the lats playoff spot. I'll tuck that one away in case we ever want to shake things up

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You know, the more I think about it I am starting to think that what is "fair" only in the mind of the beholder. I think if you are a very good player, you lean toward wanting to take the luck factor out as much as possible in determining a champion. And of course, you want to play with other good players to get there.

And if you are a so-so player, maybe you want to play in a system that occasionally rewards mediocrity.

 

 

 

that's not entirely it.... as i mentioned, i like that it follows the nfl format. luck factors into it in different ways (players injured in the 1st quarter, you go against the medicore player that blows up, highest points against, etc). i tend to like head to head play and imo what comes with that is step 1...winning your division. while it is not always best to follow nfl rules and regulations in ff, i like to comes as close as possible (within reason) i happened to be in quite a few leagues where i got both lj and lt owners in my division (giving me 4 games against those bastages)...... that's the way it goes.... but doesn't scream i am a so-so owner.... i see the system and league being greater than my own personal interest

 

perhapse you might prefer a system where you record is relative to how you do vs everyone in a week, and at the end you seed from there.... (ie: in a 12 owner league.. if you get a high score for week 1 you would be 12-0, etc).

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perhapse you might prefer a system where you record is relative to how you do vs everyone in a week, and at the end you seed from there.... (ie: in a 12 owner league.. if you get a high score for week 1 you would be 12-0, etc).

 

Similar to roto fantasy baseball. The problem with that is the season can be over a lot earlier.

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Similar to roto fantasy baseball. The problem with that is the season can be over a lot earlier.

 

 

 

this is true.... it's not always easy reaching agreement on what is ideal. i am not sure that a flawless system exists.

Edited by Bier Meister

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