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scuba chuck

How does block punt NOT EQUAL defense ball?

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Thanks for stating the obvious. :D

 

I think everyone is on board that the Refs made the correct call according to the rules. However, we think a rule change might be warranted in the offseason. Just opinion.

 

 

The title of the post says KC got robbed.

 

The did not get robbed, the ref.s followed the rules on the books.

 

Whether the rule needs changing or not is another discussion entirely.

 

KC did not get robbed.

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My point exactly from my previous post. They did not gain the necessary yardage. Officials screwed this one up and screwed it up royally. You'll hear the league office issuing an apology sometime this week.

 

No you won't. That rule applies if it does NOT cross the line of scrimmage. This one did.

 

FWIW, I agree with the majority here that it is insane that SD got the ball back after failing to gain the 10 yards from that set of downs.

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The title of the post says KC got robbed.

 

The did not get robbed, the ref.s followed the rules on the books.

 

Whether the rule needs changing or not is another discussion entirely.

 

KC did not get robbed.

 

 

Did they follow the rules though? According to Scuba's post, the rules state that ball has to be advanced enough for a first down when the ball is punted on fourth down. That did not happen. They blew it and blew it big time.

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The title of the post says KC got robbed.

 

The did not get robbed, the ref.s followed the rules on the books.

 

Whether the rule needs changing or not is another discussion entirely.

 

KC did not get robbed.

 

 

KC got robbed. :D

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Did they follow the rules though? According to Scuba's post, the rules state that ball has to be advanced enough for a first down when the ball is punted on fourth down. That did not happen. They blew it and blew it big time.

 

 

You miss read my post/findings.

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NFL rules page

 

Here's the only thing regarding this topic in the rules. So, essentially, it appears a little more open to interpretation.

From: Kicks from scrimmage

 

4. Any punt that is blocked and does not cross the line of scrimmage can be recovered and advanced by either team. However, if offensive team recovers it must make the yardage necessary for its first down to retain possession if punt was on fourth down.

 

Please note that the ball DID cross the line of scrimmage.

 

edit: Ursa beat me to it...what he said...

Edited by Gunther

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No you won't. That rule applies if it does NOT cross the line of scrimmage. This one did.

 

FWIW, I agree with the majority here that it is insane that SD got the ball back after failing to gain the 10 yards from that set of downs.

 

 

Missed that part. OK, I did misread the rules. Like others, I think the rule is dumb but the officials seemed to have followed it properly.

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Missed that part. OK, I did misread the rules. Like others, I think the rule is dumb but the officials seemed to have followed it properly.

 

 

Seriously, this just looks like an interpretation issue, which I did not find in the abridged rules book (the link does not show the entire book). If I remember, I thought I heard that most of the refs in the NFL are a bunch of lawyers. I would assume this is just an interpretation issue. I think the rule is fine if they substitute that they cannot get a first down without also passing the original first down markers.

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i don't get what everyone's hung up about. this wasn't the type of blocked punt where the punter gets smothered and the ball ends up somewhere behind him. it was more like a punter kicking into a strong wind and having it go 10 yards -- except in this case, it was a guy's hand instead of the wind. don't blame the rule, blame the dumbass who touched the ball. when leon lett grabbed the ball on thanksgiving years ago, i don't remember anyone saying, "dumb rule! dumb rule!" if you're anyone on special teams besides the punt returner, i would think the strategy would be pretty clear: DON'T TOUCH THE BALL.

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1-10-SD12 (4:27) P.Rivers pass incomplete deep right to E.Parker.

2-10-SD12 (4:22) P.Rivers pass short left to L.Neal to SD 11 for -1 yards (P.Surtain).

3-11-SD11 (3:37) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short right to V.Jackson to SD 13 for 2 yards (T.Law, S.Knight).

4-9-SD13 (3:02) M.Scifres punt is BLOCKED by B.Pollard, Center-D.Binn, RECOVERED by KC-D.Ross at SD 15. D.Ross to SD 15 for no gain (D.Binn). FUMBLES (D.Binn), RECOVERED by SD-D.Binn at SD 15.

1-10-SD15 (2:53) L.Tomlinson left end for 85 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

N.Kaeding extra point is GOOD, Center-D.Binn, Holder-M.Scifres.

 

1) SD punts from the the 13

2) Punt is blocked

3) Punt is recovered by KC at the 15. They can advance the ball regardless of where they recover it.

4) KC fumbles the ball at the 15

5) SD recovers the ball at the 15

 

The rule quoted about kicks from scrimmage doesn't apply. The key is that KC recovered the ball and had possession. Then they fumbled the ball and SD recovered the ball.

Edited by Grits and Shins

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The rule quoted about kicks from scrimmage doesn't apply. The key is that KC recovered the ball and had possession. Then they fumbled the ball and SD recovered the ball.

 

 

I'm assuming you did not see the play. The ball was not "recovered." It was touched. I think all of the rules that exist make sense in how the officials apply the rule. Why they are permitted to earn a first down by gaining 2 yards from scrimmage when they needed 10 is beyond me.

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I'm assuming you did not see the play. The ball was not "recovered." It was touched. I think all of the rules that exist make sense in how the officials apply the rule. Why they are permitted to earn a first down by gaining 2 yards from scrimmage when they needed 10 is beyond me.

 

 

it was the equivalent of a muffed punt. it doesn't matter that KC partially blocked it. the ball traveled past the line of scrimmage and a KC player touched it. that's the same as a muff, or a fumble and an SD recovery.

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I agree.

 

It seems to me that if the punt is blocked or partially blocked and advances beyond the line of scrimmage, the "muff" rule should be voided - similar to how pass interference rules are voided when a pass is deflected at the line of scrimmage. In that case, KC would have had to demonstrate possession of the ball (as opposed to simply touching the ball) and then fumble it in order for SD to recover it and get a first down.

 

They need to change the current rule.

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I'm assuming you did not see the play. The ball was not "recovered." It was touched. I think all of the rules that exist make sense in how the officials apply the rule. Why they are permitted to earn a first down by gaining 2 yards from scrimmage when they needed 10 is beyond me.

 

scuba chuck, just think of it this way. It is the same as if the punt didn't get blocked, but the punt returner went to catch the ball and "muffed" it (touched it, let it slip through his arms, whatever) and San Diego recovered it.

 

monster, I too remember that Leon Lett play, when he just slid across the slick surface and bumped the ball. :D

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I agree.

 

It seems to me that if the punt is blocked or partially blocked and advances beyond the line of scrimmage, the "muff" rule should be voided - similar to how pass interference rules are voided when a pass is deflected at the line of scrimmage. In that case, KC would have had to demonstrate possession of the ball (as opposed to simply touching the ball) and then fumble it in order for SD to recover it and get a first down.

 

They need to change the current rule.

 

 

What you think doesn't matter ... what matters is what rule is on the books.

 

Just out of curiousity ... if a defensive player gets a finger on the punt and the ball still travels 30 yards where the KR muffs the ball ... you believe that in this instance the muff rule should not apply?

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Can anyone explain the ruling here? This is so baffling to me, and if I were a KC fan, I'd be irate.

 

 

Simply a blown call. Doesn't it seem like officiating is getting worse even though we have instant replay?

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What you think doesn't matter ... what matters is what rule is on the books.

 

 

Bite me.

 

Just out of curiousity ... if a defensive player gets a finger on the punt and the ball still travels 30 yards where the KR muffs the ball ... you believe that in this instance the muff rule should not apply?

 

 

Yes. Just like if a pass is tipped at the line of scrimmage and travels 30 yards, the pass interference rules no longer apply. Or, if a punt is partially deflected behind the line - even if a defensive player only gets a fingernail on it - the running into the kicker rule no longer applies. The muff rule should be waived off on a deflected punt, IMO. Maybe the fair catch rule as well, although I'd have to give that one more thought.

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After watching that play 3 things are abundantly clear;

 

1. It is an unfair rule and needs a viset to the competition commitee

 

2. Phillip Rivers knew it was a 1st down right away and probably wasn't the only player who did

 

3. The real surprise is that Chiefs got screwed, instead of the usual victim, "Da Raiders" of course

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Can anyone explain the ruling here? This is so baffling to me, and if I were a KC fan, I'd be irate.

 

 

You tell me....which part exactly should I be irrate about? The fact we got f'n screwed out of a sweet defensive play where we blew up the runner and should have been a fumble, or the blocked punt play? Don't even f'n mention the fact that I am playing my ach rival who has LT (who got a gift 85 yard TD) or the fact that I have LJ against his cheatin LT in this game for all the marbles? Am I pissed?.....you don't even undterstand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Still doesn't make sense. The blocking player touched the ball first resulting in a punt that never got airborne. The ball should be a dead spot for the receiving team regardless who kills the ball. No way should the punting team be allowed to punt on fourth down and receive a first down by allowing the ball to be blocked period. No way that can happen. Theoretically, you could purposely pull that miracle crap to achieve a first down. That play just can't happen that way. A blocked punt can only end up in the receiving teams possession unless the receiving team gains possession and then fumbles. I think the rule was applied correctly as it is written now but it has to change so that this play can not happen again.

 

Poor KC. LT makes um pay with an 85 yard dash to add insult to already damaged nut sacks. Man that's got to hurt.

 

 

Yeah, it hurt alright! FF-wise

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What you think doesn't matter ... what matters is what rule is on the books.

 

:D We know this!

 

We're all saying the rule was correctly interpreted but it's a $hit rule.

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I'm assuming you did not see the play. The ball was not "recovered." It was touched. I think all of the rules that exist make sense in how the officials apply the rule. Why they are permitted to earn a first down by gaining 2 yards from scrimmage when they needed 10 is beyond me.

 

:D:D Thank You!

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:D We know this!

 

We're all saying the rule was correctly interpreted but it's a $hit rule.

 

 

but why is it a $hit rule? i've watched a ton of football this season, and this is the only play i can think of where something like this happened. the rule book should be changed over this one play? come on.

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but why is it a $hit rule? i've watched a ton of football this season, and this is the only play i can think of where something like this happened. the rule book should be changed over this one play? come on.

 

Rule books are virtually always changed over one play. Something happens that has never happened before, or so long ago everyone has forgotten it.

 

The rule should remain as it is except "line of scrimmage" needs to be replaced with "first down line".

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