Easy n Dirty

Any Really Smart Christians Out There?

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this discussions goes deeper than just to have or have not...... we are talking about man condemning man for difference in practice. we are are talking about damnation of morally good people because they don't follow the teaching or specific beliefs of christ or the christ.... we are talking about a faux moral superiority. there is a lack acknowledgement that other pathes could be righteous

 

Oh, I get your point Bier, and agree that the self-imposed exclusivity of salvation by certain sects of Christianity is annoying, but in reality it's all talk. Those who profess knowledge of the requirements for salvation and those who profess to pass out judgement based on that knowledge are void of any real merit. What we are talking about it self deception and denial. We are not talking about real salvation or real damnation. Who on earth has the wisdom to see such things? Therefore such claims are solely about people, not heaven or hell. Some wish to raise themselves up over others in the name of religion, but that they do it in the name of religion as opposed to the name of Zeus, or science, or whatever, doesn't make it any more substantive.

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What defies explanation?

 

Please don't go all Clinton on me. I'm not wearing the right color dress, though I am fond of cigars.

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Oh, I get your point Bier, and agree that the self-imposed exclusivity of salvation by certain sects of Christianity is annoying, but in reality it's all talk. Those who profess knowledge of the requirements for salvation and those who profess to pass out judgement based on that knowledge are void of any real merit. What we are talking about it self deception and denial. We are not talking about real salvation or real damnation. Who on earth has the wisdom to see such things? Therefore such claims are solely about people, not heaven or hell. Some wish to raise themselves up over others in the name of religion, but that they do it in the name of religion as opposed to the name of Zeus, or science, or whatever, doesn't make it any more substantive.

 

 

 

see, i beleive it is more than some. i believe a majority miss the point and conduct their lives contradictory to core teachings.......coming directly from XX religion. a parallel is developing patriotism.... an us vs them, a shared superiority as being part of the group.... superiroty by association.

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Good point Billay.

 

...which brings me back to my original point...

 

There is a HUGE difference between judgement and condemnation.

 

Everyone on the face of the planet wants to exert good judgement (i.e., walking across a busy street with your eyes closed would probably be considered poor judgement by most) in their personal affairs (including issues of faith).

 

Where people of all faiths go awry is when they start condemning people to certain life trajectories.

 

[NOTE: Condemnation of this sort isn't just limited to issues of faith ... "you are just like your POS older brother" ... "your butt is starting to look like your moms, you know" ... "I knew your dad and your just as dumb as he was" ... etc ...]

 

Condemnation (or not) should be left up to each individual and God/god/null-set (which ever your faith allows for).

Edited by muck

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PS - Regardless of what you believe in (the Stud RB Theory, for example), the more ardently you believe it to be true, the more difficult it is to not come across as condemning someone else who has a different perspective on things.

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PS - Regardless of what you believe in (the Stud RB Theory, for example), the more ardently you believe it to be true, the more difficult it is to not come across as condemning someone else who has a different perspective on things.

 

 

 

true

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Live a good life. Be a good person. Do good things. Help where you can. After that, I let the chips fall where they may.

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Live a good life. Be a good person. Do good things. Help where you can. After that, I let the chips fall where they may.

 

 

 

carefull! it could get hotter than a green egg for you.

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carefull! it could get hotter than a green egg for you.

 

 

 

well then...maybe the chips that will fall will be some nice apple wood...mmmm

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pssssssst.......unta likes to steal candy from small children......

:D

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And it's not a matter of logic. Real faith takes place in spite of the facts, not in ignorance of them.

 

Isn't that the definition of illogicality?

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pssssssst.......unta likes to steal candy from small children......

:D

 

 

 

oh. i thought he liked to give it to them at soccer games in exchange for them posing for the camera

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Isn't that the definition of illogicality?

 

Well, my point was that faith is not a matter of logic. It takes place outside the realm of evidence, so to call it illogical is really a misnomer.

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well, I now know two people who are going to hell.

 

 

 

the two young boys who temped you into sin?

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Please don't go all Clinton on me. I'm not wearing the right color dress, though I am fond of cigars.

 

 

:D

 

It was a pretty simple question. You claim that something defies explanation. Did you witness some miracle?

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:D

 

It was a pretty simple question. You claim that something defies explanation. Did you witness some miracle?

 

Such as the Broncos winning a playoff game this year, perhaps?

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Such as the Broncos winning a playoff game this year, perhaps?

 

 

Well, if we had a quarterback as consistent as Grossman, people would have more faith in us.

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Live a good life. Be a good person. Do good things. Help where you can. After that, I let the chips fall where they may.

 

 

 

Not Pascal's Wager, but unta's words are akin to something that gets a lot of play in my personal philosophy.

 

BTW, Pascal had a lot more to offer as a philosopher than his lame wager.

 

It's been awhile since the tailgate has offered up something worthy of discussion.

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Well, if we had a quarterback as consistent as Grossman, people would have more faith in us.

 

:D:D Nice one.

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I would love to take this idiot's money.

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yeah, reading it as if "the book" itself is the object of your faith, not what it describes. as if the book itself were the incarnation of the logos of god -- essentially putting the original writers, editors and compilers all on the same divine level as jesus himself.

 

 

I am surprised at this statement by Az. He knows his bible well.........Jesus is the word.....John 1:1. I think the bible is pretty clear that Jesus is the word given through men by God. I do agree that only the original language that it was written in would be accurate. You don't believe that the author's words could have been inspired by God? You don't think he could have played a role in the presentation of his word to everyone??

 

I do believe in the bible. I will not force my beliefs on anyone else. I want to know why people believe the way they do. I will be apologetic for my beliefs in the bible when asked. I did not write the bible or make the rules. Non believers need to stop blaming Christians for the rules God has made to protect us. If you don't believe, I am ok with that but don't call me holier than thou because I do believe in the promise and grace promised in the bible. It is just as idiotic to believe that life happened by chance than the so called mythical biblical account. Science has never been able to prove there isn't a creator and I still want to know how anyone believes in evolution when the evidence that Darwin himself said was needed to support his theory has not been found. I am a seeker of the truth and I will be the first to jump on the Jesus is Magic bandwagon, hopefully led by a Jesus Horse, if there is any credible evidence that disputes the model presented in the bible. I would never say I understand God's way, just that it is the model that allows us to live abundant lives. If you haven't tried it, you don't know what your missing.

 

There are many evangelicals that believe that Catholicism isn't true Christianity. Ephesians 2:8,9 pretty much discount the works based Catholic doctrine. Anything that allows people and not God the power to get to heaven pretty much ends it for me. If its not divine guidance, why would anyone bother?

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