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Mark5

What is up with HOF Voters

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Not unanimously electing this guy is just freaking stupid :D The BEST hitter in his era by far and some goofy ass so called sports writer turned in a blank ballot (he should have his privilege revoked ) You knew when Gwynn stepped in you WERE NOT going to strike him out. He was going to keep the team going.

 

As far as McGwire in concerned, he should get in also. Yea, he probably took something but it wasn't against the rules at the time so that is MLB's fault. He was mashing way back at USC and set the rookie record of 49 homers when he was skinny. I think he started taking stuff because he had 2 years where his body was breaking down from the rigors of a 162 game schedule and he was just trying to get healthy. Like Jason Stark said, There were more than 10 people taking stuff (Canseco's book) but it still takes SKILL to put bat on ball.

 

Some baseball writers just want to get their own name in the lights.

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They both belong in the Hall of fame as 1st ballots. if not for McGwires steroid use I would say he was the better player. since he used steroids I cannot say that though. don't get me wrong..I loved Gwynn and appreciate guys like him, Boggs and Carew who knew how to get on base. but hitters like Mcgwire are game changers .

Edited by Doc Holliday

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As far as McGwire in concerned, he should get in also. Yea, he probably took something but it wasn't against the rules at the time so that is MLB's fault. He was mashing way back at USC and set the rookie record of 49 homers when he was skinny. I think he started taking stuff because he had 2 years where his body was breaking down from the rigors of a 162 game schedule ... but it still takes SKILL to put bat on ball.

 

 

McGwire was a career .263 hitter. Are you saying he wasn't skilled? :D

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Any writter who submits a blank ballot "to make a statement" should be relieved of his or her responsibilities of HOF voting in the future. Apparently, there is some El Guapo in Chicago who submitted a blank ballot in such manner.

 

It's one thing if the writters don't think anyone deserves to be inducted (there are some years where there may not be an appropriate candidate), but when you have players like Gwynn and Ripken on the ballot, it is unacceptable to not vote for either.

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As far as McGwire in concerned, he should get in also. Yea, he probably took something but it wasn't against the rules at the time

But steroids were against the LAW in this country. :D MLB didn't need its own rules requiring testing for steroids to prohibit their use, testing would have only served to enforce existing U.S. statutory laws.

 

I'm not saying that MLB shouldn't have had testing in place as they most certainly should have, and by turning the other cheek and not doing so I agree with you that this whole ordeal is their fault. I'm not even saying that usage of steroids should definitively affect your opinion of McGwire's or anybody else's "Hall-Worthiness" - LT was coked up half of his career, and he is in the football HOF, and rightfully so IMO. It's just that I keep reading people imply that McGwire didn't do anything wrong because steroids weren't against MLB rules, and I'm only saying that steroids were not legal when he appears to have taken them, therefore he certainly did something wrong by breaking U.S. "rules." I'm also fairly certain that steroids enhanced his and many others' performances.

 

Any writter who submits a blank ballot "to make a statement" should be relieved of his or her responsibilities of HOF voting in the future...It's one thing if the writters don't think anyone deserves to be inducted (there are some years where there may not be an appropriate candidate), but when you have players like Gwynn and Ripken on the ballot, it is unacceptable to not vote for either.

 

I agree with your sentiments entirely, however where did the following information come from?

Apparently, there is some El Guapo in Chicago who submitted a blank ballot in such manner.
I'm just curious so I can read the article. I'm assuming it was leaked information since the HOF voting won't be officially released until tommorrow. Does that ass-clown Jay Mariotti have a HOF vote? he strikes me as the kind of self-serving dirtbag who would do such a thing. Edited by Skrappy1

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But steroids were against the LAW in this country. :D MLB didn't need its own rules requiring testing for steroids to prohibit their use, testing would have only served to enforce existing U.S. statutory laws.

 

I'm not saying that MLB shouldn't have had testing in place as they most certainly should have, and by turning the other cheek and not doing so I agree with you that this whole ordeal is their fault. I'm not even saying that usage of steroids should definitively affect your opinion of McGwire's or anybody else's "Hall-Worthiness" - LT was coked up half of his career, and he is in the football HOF, and rightfully so IMO. It's just that I keep reading people imply that McGwire didn't do anything wrong because steroids weren't against MLB rules, and I'm only saying that steroids were not legal when he appears to have taken them, therefore he certainly did something wrong by breaking U.S. "rules." I'm also fairly certain that steroids enhanced his and many others' performances.

I agree with your sentiments entirely, however where did the following information come from?

I'm just curious so I can read the article. I'm assuming it was leaked information since the HOF voting won't be officially released until tommorrow. Does that ass-clown Jay Mariotti have a HOF vote? he strikes me as the kind of self-serving dirtbag who would do such a thing.

 

 

 

SELLING steroids was against the law.

The most you could get for possessing them, I believe, was a nuscience charge.

They've been only recently (5-10 years) tightening the laws.

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SELLING steroids was against the law.

The most you could get for possessing them, I believe, was a nuscience charge.

 

Yes, selling steroids was illegal but so was possession as steroids are considered a schedule III CDS. :D I've had this discussion before, see this thread:

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=143999&st=25

Edited by Skrappy1

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Yes, selling steroids was illegal but so was possession as steroids are considered a schedule III CDS. :D I've had this discussion before, see this thread:

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=143999&st=25

 

 

 

You are very right...currently.

I used to lecture around the area (local HS's) on steroids (its been 15 years) and the code you're qouting is the CURRENT code. I believe it has been updated and was significantly different when McGuire and Sosa

were mashing, so while it was technically illegal in the US to possess, its was probably a bigger offense to get caught DUI or excessive speeding..at that time.

The lawmakers realized the inconsistancy and made the changes.

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Any writter who submits a blank ballot "to make a statement" should be relieved of his or her responsibilities of HOF voting in the future. Apparently, there is some El Guapo in Chicago who submitted a blank ballot in such manner.

 

It's one thing if the writters don't think anyone deserves to be inducted (there are some years where there may not be an appropriate candidate), but when you have players like Gwynn and Ripken on the ballot, it is unacceptable to not vote for either.

 

:D Agreed. :D

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Not unanimously electing this guy is just freaking stupid :D

 

No one has been elected unanimous in the history of MLB. Not the Babe(95.1%), not Aaron(97.8), not Williams(93.4), not Jackie Robinson(77.5). The highest ever is Seaver(98.8)

 

The BEST hitter in his era by far ....

 

But not the best hitter ever. The Babe hit for power, average and pitched lights out also. If he wasn't unaminous why should Gwynn be?

 

...but it still takes SKILL to put bat on ball.

 

But muscle generates the bat speed that knocks the ball out of the park.

 

Gwynn was a definite first ballot hall of famer.

 

However, I don't think anyone will ever be elected unanimously because of the mystique that oldtimers like Ruth and Williams carry.

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They both belong in the Hall of fame as 1st ballots. if not for McGwires steroid use I would say he was the better player. since he used steroids I cannot say that though. don't get me wrong..I loved Gwynn and appreciate guys like him, Boggs and Carew who knew how to get on base. but hitters like Mcgwire are game changers .

 

McGwire better than Tony Gwynn :D:D

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FWIW:

 

HOF Voting, % of Votes Received, Minimum of 95% of Votes Received

 

98.84 Tom Seaver

98.79 Nolan Ryan

98.23 Ty Cobb

98.19 George Brett

97.83 Hank Aaron

96.52 Mike Schmidt

96.42 Johnny Bench

95.61 Steve Carlton

95.13 Babe Ruth

95.13 Honus Wagner

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McGwire better than Tony Gwynn :D:D

 

 

 

He had a better OBP and Slugging percentage. tell me where he is not?

 

Don't get me wrong though..I love Gwynn and think he is more deserving because of McGwires steroid use.as a matter of fact I don't think McGwire should be in the HOF.

 

But throwing away the steroid use and just going by the numbers...he was the more feared and more dangerous hitter. the fact that he has a better OBP than 1 of the all time great batting average hitters like Gwynn tells it all.

 

So do ya see my point now knucklehead?

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I don't think anyone will ever be elected unanimously because of the mystique that oldtimers like Ruth and Williams carry.

 

 

I think it less about mystique and more about ignorant writters who are out to get their names in print.

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FWIW:

 

HOF Voting, % of Votes Received, Minimum of 95% of Votes Received

 

98.84 Tom Seaver

98.79 Nolan Ryan

98.23 Ty Cobb

98.19 George Brett

97.83 Hank Aaron

96.52 Mike Schmidt

96.42 Johnny Bench

95.61 Steve Carlton

95.13 Babe Ruth

95.13 Honus Wagner

 

 

Ripken moved ahead of Cobb and Gwynn ahead of Schmidt on that list.

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Ripken moved ahead of Cobb and Gwynn ahead of Schmidt on that list.

 

 

 

I like seeing Tom Seaver on top of that list. Ryan was a great pitcher..and on certain nights was unhittable. but Seaver was consistantly dominant and the best pitcher I think I seen in my lifetime.

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I think it less about mystique and more about ignorant writters who are out to get their names in print.

 

Agreed. Put them in print -- in the "no longer worthy of a ballot" list printed in every sports page in the nation.

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