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I think that the Raiders can get a hell of a lot more than an injury-prone, first-round bust for Moss. If I were Davis, I'd ask for Greg Jennings or Driver and a fifth-round pick.

 

You're an idiot if you actually beleive this.

 

Why would the pack want to trade away a polished 2nd year player in Jennings, or a pro bowler in Donald Driver?

 

This is the most assinine thing I've read on here... And it disappoints me that you would say this, Bill.

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You're an idiot if you actually beleive this.

 

Why would the pack want to trade away a polished 2nd year player in Jennings, or a pro bowler in Donald Driver?

 

This is the most assinine thing I've read on here... And it disappoints me that you would say this, Bill.

 

 

You're even more of an idiot if you're negotiating on behalf of the Raiders and you're willing to give up a borderline HOFer in Randy Moss for a POS like Aaron Rodgers. While I'm sure that the Packers would love to keep talented and (relatively) inexpensive WRs like Jennings and Driver, Moss is worth more than either of them. If I'm Al Davis, I want a good WR in return for Moss. And if the Packers aren't willing to deal one of theirs, I shop Moss elsewhere.

Edited by Bill Swerski

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You're even more of an idiot if you're negotiating on behalf of the Raiders and you're willing to give up a borderline HOFer in Randy Moss for a POS like Aaron Rodgers. While I'm sure that the Packers would love to keep talented and (relatively) inexpensive WRs like Jennings and Driver, Moss is worth more than either of them. If I'm Al Davis, I want a good WR in return for Moss. And if the Packers aren't willing to deal one of theirs, I shop Moss elsewhere.

 

 

What has Moss done over the past few years? What has Driver done? Driver is a better player at this point... Moss's prime days are long behind him. THe same as Favre. Driver is in his prime, and Jennings has more value than Moss as he's young, inexpensive, a team player, and above all else, they're rebuilding.

 

Rodgers has played a handfull of snaps. Calling him a bust is a reach at this point. Do I like him? Not really. Does it mean he's a bust? Absolutley not.

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What has Moss done over the past few years? What has Driver done? Driver is a better player at this point... Moss's prime days are long behind him. THe same as Favre. Driver is in his prime, and Jennings has more value than Moss as he's young, inexpensive, a team player, and above all else, they're rebuilding.

 

Moss had a 1,000-yd season with Kerry Collins at QB. The Raiders have no O-line and their OC this past season was completely incompetent. What do you expect? How do you suppose that Driver and Jennings would've fared in Oakland's "offense" over the past two years? :D

 

I agree that Moss' best days are behind him, but he's still a better player than Driver or Jennings. Maybe not for the long-term, but certainly right now. If Deion Branch is worth a first-round pick, Randy Moss is worth proven NFL talent.

 

If I'm Al Davis, my strategy is to deal Moss for a good-but-not-great WR and drafting JaMarcus Russell. If Brett really, really wants Randy Moss on his team, I ask for Driver or Jennings, regardless of whether or not it's a "fair" deal for the Packers. That's part of negotiating.

 

Rodgers has played a handfull of snaps. Calling him a bust is a reach at this point. Do I like him? Not really. Does it mean he's a bust? Absolutley not.

 

The Raiders already have a young QB who probably isn't good enough to be an NFL starter. Why would they want another one?

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Moss has very little value to the Raiders at this point. They need to move him IMO. They don't have a good team and if he's on it, he probably won't try, and will have a negative impact on the team. There's probably only a handful of teams that have interest. While the Raiders may not be interested in Rodgers, I don't see them as having a ton of leverage. Moss for something between a 2nd and a 3rd seems reasonable to me and makes sense for both sides.

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Moss had a 1,000-yd season with Kerry Collins at QB. The Raiders have no O-line and their OC this past season was completely incompetent. What do you expect? How do you suppose that Driver and Jennings would've fared in Oakland's "offense" over the past two years? :D

 

I agree that Moss' best days are behind him, but he's still a better player than Driver or Jennings. Maybe not for the long-term, but certainly right now. If Deion Branch is worth a first-round pick, Randy Moss is worth proven NFL talent.

 

If I'm Al Davis, my strategy is to deal Moss for a good-but-not-great WR and drafting JaMarcus Russell. If Brett really, really wants Randy Moss on his team, I ask for Driver or Jennings, regardless of whether or not it's a "fair" deal for the Packers. That's part of negotiating.

The Raiders already have a young QB who probably isn't good enough to be an NFL starter. Why would they want another one?

 

 

So how has Driver put up Pro Bowl numbers the past three years? Are you going to tell me that the 4-12 team was good?

 

If you're basing your opinion on Moss off of Branch going for a no.1, then you need to stop watching football. The seahawks were fleeced on that deal... Branch is nowhere near a 1... Neither is Moss.

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All this talk is moot... Thompson isnt trading Driver, Jennings, or a second round pick... Honestly, I would be shocked if he traded a third for Moss.

This goes against everything that Thompson does and how he builds teams.

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So how has Driver put up Pro Bowl numbers the past three years?

 

:D

 

Driver played with Favre over that time. Moss has played with Kerry Collins, Aaron Brooks, and Andrew Walter over the past two years. Gee, you think THAT might make a slight difference? :D

 

I'm not saying that the Packers SHOULD trade Driver or Jennings for Moss. I'm simply saying that, from the Raiders' perspective, that's where I'd start the negotiations. When you negotiate a deal, you start high. You don't start at Aaron Rodgers or a 3rd-round pick.

 

If you're basing your opinion on Moss off of Branch going for a no.1, then you need to stop watching football. The seahawks were fleeced on that deal... Branch is nowhere near a 1... Neither is Moss.

 

Yeah, the Seahawks are a bunch of idiots. :tup:

 

If you think that a 30-year-old Randy Moss and his 101 career TDs aren't worth a first-round pick, you need to go hang out with the other children on the AOL boards. Even if he's only 80% of what he used to be, he'll still be more of an impact player on a decent offense than anybody in the draft.

Edited by Bill Swerski

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If you think that a 30-year-old Randy Moss and his 101 career TDs aren't worth a first-round pick, you need to go hang out with the other children on the AOL boards. Even if he's only 80% of what he used to be, he'll still be more of an impact player on a decent offense than anybody in the draft.

 

How many of those 101 touchdowns have happened over the last three years? Any player worth a 1st round pick doesnt give up on the field. I hate to break it to you, but Moss is only 80%... He's way lower than that. He is a shell of his former self.

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You guys are assuming that the Raiders and their players will always look like an offense that is coached by someone 12 years removed from the league and spent that time running a bed and breakfast. There could be improvements in that area.

 

Or maybe not. :D

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:D

 

Driver played with Favre over that time. Moss has played with Kerry Collins, Aaron Brooks, and Andrew Walter over the past two years. Gee, you think THAT might make a slight difference? :D

 

I'm not saying that the Packers SHOULD trade Driver or Jennings for Moss. I'm simply saying that, from the Raiders' perspective, that's where I'd start the negotiations. When you negotiate a deal, you start high. You don't start at Aaron Rodgers or a 3rd-round pick.

Yeah, the Seahawks are a bunch of idiots. :tup:

 

If you think that a 30-year-old Randy Moss and his 101 career TDs aren't worth a first-round pick, you need to go hang out with the other children on the AOL boards. Even if he's only 80% of what he used to be, he'll still be more of an impact player on a decent offense than anybody in the draft.

 

 

No way is he worth a first rounder!!!!This idiot flat out quit on his team last year.If he even had a hint of a decent attitude,played hard half the time and produced maybe I could see it.For the money he gets let the Raiders keep him.

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:D

 

Driver played with Favre over that time. Moss has played with Kerry Collins, Aaron Brooks, and Andrew Walter over the past two years. Gee, you think THAT might make a slight difference? :D

 

I'm not saying that the Packers SHOULD trade Driver or Jennings for Moss. I'm simply saying that, from the Raiders' perspective, that's where I'd start the negotiations. When you negotiate a deal, you start high. You don't start at Aaron Rodgers or a 3rd-round pick.

Yeah, the Seahawks are a bunch of idiots. :tup:

 

If you think that a 30-year-old Randy Moss and his 101 career TDs aren't worth a first-round pick, you need to go hang out with the other children on the AOL boards. Even if he's only 80% of what he used to be, he'll still be more of an impact player on a decent offense than anybody in the draft.

 

Bill you must be a complete idiot. Enough said.

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How many of those 101 touchdowns have happened over the last three years? Any player worth a 1st round pick doesnt give up on the field. I hate to break it to you, but Moss is only 80%... He's way lower than that. He is a shell of his former self.

 

I hate to break it to you, but you're seriously over-valuing a first-round draft pick. A first-round pick isn't guaranteed to pan out in the NFL. I could spend hours naming off first-round busts. So, how is a first-rounder more valuable than a 30-year-old borderline HOFer like Moss?

 

Moss had a 1,000-yd season two years ago with Kerry Collins throwing him the ball. He played on a laughably-bad offense last year with no line, horrible coaching, and two very bad QBs. Only a short-sighted moran would ignore those factors.

 

I could see the Raiders not getting a first-rounder for Moss because they lack leverage in this particular situation. But to say that a guy who isn't just proven NFL talent, but one of the best of his generation - isn't worth a first-round draft pick is just flat-out retarded.

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I hate to break it to you, but you're seriously over-valuing a first-round draft pick. A first-round pick isn't guaranteed to pan out in the NFL. I could spend hours naming off first-round busts. So, how is a first-rounder more valuable than a 30-year-old borderline HOFer like Moss?

 

Moss had a 1,000-yd season two years ago with Kerry Collins throwing him the ball. He played on a laughably-bad offense last year with no line, horrible coaching, and two very bad QBs. Only a short-sighted moran would ignore those factors.

 

I could see the Raiders not getting a first-rounder for Moss because they lack leverage in this particular situation. But to say that a guy who isn't just proven NFL talent, but one of the best of his generation - isn't worth a first-round draft pick is just flat-out retarded.

 

Bill - What did the bears get for T Jones? They did not get a first and had to give up a pick also. Thomas Jones is a better all around player than Moss is at this point and he was not worthy of a first round pick. They are also saying the Bills will not get a first and maybe not a second for McGahee. Moss wants out of Oakland which hurts the value they will get.

 

They will not get a first for Moss.

 

Saying the Pack should trade Jennings or Driver is crazy. Sit down because you are talking out of your ass!!

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If you're basing your opinion on Moss off of Branch going for a no.1, then you need to stop watching football. The seahawks were fleeced on that deal... Branch is nowhere near a 1...

 

 

That is a mightly strong statement since Branch only played a handful games with Hasselbeck, missed training camp, missed part of the season, and joined a WCO that takes time to immerse ones self in as a receiver. My contention is that Branch will be more valuable to the Seahawks (especially with the impending Djax departure) in the next 2-3 years, of hopeful chamionship runs, than the 20-something pick in this draft will be. But, it is much too early to make an absolute and rational judgement on that trade.

 

The team that you think fleeced the Hawks on the deal just traded away a 2nd and 7th round pick for Wes Welker. :D

 

Moss salary probably hurts his trade value more than anything. But, if he was willing and able to re-structure, he would definitely produce well on most teams and would easily be worth a high pick. Did you guys actually watch how horrendous the Raiders were?

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The value of draft pick changes from year to year, and since it's all subjective, from team to team. The Bears traded TJ and now have 2 picks in the same spot they had them last year where they got Daniel (sp) Manning and Devin Hester, the real rookie of the year.

 

They gave up a disgruntled RB, who actually wanted a trade after LAST season but they talked into hanging around for one more. This is a trade who's success for the Bears depends on how well the player they get for the pick does.

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I hate to break it to you, but you're seriously over-valuing a first-round draft pick. A first-round pick isn't guaranteed to pan out in the NFL. I could spend hours naming off first-round busts. So, how is a first-rounder more valuable than a 30-year-old borderline HOFer like Moss?

 

Moss had a 1,000-yd season two years ago with Kerry Collins throwing him the ball. He played on a laughably-bad offense last year with no line, horrible coaching, and two very bad QBs. Only a short-sighted moran would ignore those factors.

 

I could see the Raiders not getting a first-rounder for Moss because they lack leverage in this particular situation. But to say that a guy who isn't just proven NFL talent, but one of the best of his generation - isn't worth a first-round draft pick is just flat-out retarded.

 

 

No, im not over-valuing a first round draft pick... I know there are plenty of first round busts... Ahmad Carroll comes to mind... The reason im not over valuing is because Moss is in his 30's, quit on his team, and has lost a lot of the abilities that made him so dangerous in the past... So basically we know where his ceiling is at this stage of his career. With a first round draft pick you have pure potential. Potential and the chance of getting someone with a higher ceiling who is 7-10 years younger, cheaper and not a mal-content is where the value is. Nevermind the fact that the Pack is building for the future.

 

Two years ago Driver played on a team with a horrid O line and Mike Sherman, and nothing at runningback as Green tore his quad... So there goes that argument.

You keep on talking about him being one of the best in his generation... THAT WAS THEN. THIS IS NOW. WE'RE NOT GETTING THE MOSS OF 4 YEARS AGO. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

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That is a mightly strong statement since Branch only played a handful games with Hasselbeck, missed training camp, missed part of the season, and joined a WCO that takes time to immerse ones self in as a receiver. My contention is that Branch will be more valuable to the Seahawks (especially with the impending Djax departure) in the next 2-3 years, of hopeful chamionship runs, than the 20-something pick in this draft will be. But, it is much too early to make an absolute and rational judgement on that trade.

 

The team that you think fleeced the Hawks on the deal just traded away a 2nd and 7th round pick for Wes Welker. :D

 

Moss salary probably hurts his trade value more than anything. But, if he was willing and able to re-structure, he would definitely produce well on most teams and would easily be worth a high pick. Did you guys actually watch how horrendous the Raiders were?

 

Enough to see Moss drop plenty of balls, quit on routes and tear apart his quarterbacks... Maybe if Moss had heart they could have won another game or two... You guys are letting Moss off the hook. He was every bit as bad as Robert Gallery, Aaron Brooks, or Andrew Walter.

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Saying the Pack should trade Jennings or Driver is crazy. Sit down because you are talking out of your ass!!

 

 

That's not what I said, noob. Go back to the AOL boards.

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No, im not over-valuing a first round draft pick... I know there are plenty of first round busts... Ahmad Carroll comes to mind... The reason im not over valuing is because Moss is in his 30's, quit on his team, and has lost a lot of the abilities that made him so dangerous in the past... So basically we know where his ceiling is at this stage of his career. With a first round draft pick you have pure potential. Potential and the chance of getting someone with a higher ceiling who is 7-10 years younger, cheaper and not a mal-content is where the value is. Nevermind the fact that the Pack is building for the future.

 

(1) If the Packers are building for the future, why is Favre still there? And why are there rampant rumors about GB trading for a veteran WR? The Packers looked pretty good at the end of last season. I'd say that they're probably not more than another year away from being a legitimate contender.

 

(2) It's HIGHLY unlikely that GB will be able to draft a WR with a "higher ceiling" than where Moss is at now. It'd take a good 2-3 years to find out. Say what you want about Moss' attitude, but the guy's only 30. He's FAR from washed-up physically. In terms of raw talent, he's still probably one of the Top 5 in the league. Put him on a well-run, competitive team with a QB who can get the ball to him and he may be a Top 3 WR again. You won't see that from a draft pick for another 3 years... and that's if you're really, really lucky.

 

Two years ago Driver played on a team with a horrid O line and Mike Sherman, and nothing at runningback as Green tore his quad... So there goes that argument.

 

Except, of course, that Favre was throwing passes to him. And the last time I checked, Favre is a hell of a lot better than Kerry Collins, Aaron Brooks, and Andrew Walter. Your arguments are completely retarded.

 

You keep on talking about him being one of the best in his generation... THAT WAS THEN. THIS IS NOW. WE'RE NOT GETTING THE MOSS OF 4 YEARS AGO. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

 

 

Hey, loudmouth: :D MOSS' ENTIRE TEAM SUCKED LAST SEASON. HE HAD NO QB... OR OFFENSIVE LINE... OR RUNNING GAME... OR EVEN A #2 WR. HIS OC WAS COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

 

So, I suppose that Mushin Muhammad went from league-leading WR to crap from 2004 to 2005. And it was completely his fault. Nevermind the fact that he went from Delhomme to Kyle Orton. :D

 

I can understand why you wouldn't want Moss on the Packers, but to say that he's washed up or isn't worth a first-round pick is pure stupidity.

Edited by Bill Swerski

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(1) If the Packers are building for the future, why is Favre still there? And why are there rampant rumors about GB trading for a veteran WR? The Packers looked pretty good at the end of last season. I'd say that they're probably not more than another year away from being a legitimate contender.

 

(2) It's HIGHLY unlikely that GB will be able to draft a WR with a "higher ceiling" than where Moss is at now. It'd take a good 2-3 years to find out. Say what you want about Moss' attitude, but the guy's only 30. He's FAR from washed-up physically. In terms of raw talent, he's still probably one of the Top 5 in the league. Put him on a well-run, competitive team with a QB who can get the ball to him and he may be a Top 3 WR again. You won't see that from a draft pick for another 3 years... and that's if you're really, really lucky.

Except, of course, that Favre was throwing passes to him. And the last time I checked, Favre is a hell of a lot better than Kerry Collins, Aaron Brooks, and Andrew Walter. Your arguments are completely retarded.

Hey, loudmouth: :D MOSS' ENTIRE TEAM SUCKED LAST SEASON. HE HAD NO QB... OR OFFENSIVE LINE... OR RUNNING GAME... OR EVEN A #2 WR. HIS OC WAS COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

 

So, I suppose that Mushin Muhammad went from league-leading WR to crap from 2004 to 2005. And it was completely his fault. Nevermind the fact that he went from Delhomme to Kyle Orton. :D

 

I can understand why you wouldn't want Moss on the Packers, but to say that he's washed up or isn't worth a first-round pick is pure stupidity.

 

1. Because he is Mr. Green Bay... Check and see how many other 30+ year old players are on there team...

2. Are you kidding? Moss right now is an above average wr at best... Johnson, Jarrett, Bowe, Rice, and Ginn all have the potential to be stars. Moss is no longer a star.

2A. Favre was the only thing on the packers other than Driver two years ago. The pack had no running game or offensive line... The raiders had no quarterback or an offensive line, but an explosive Lamount Jordan at the time. Its not that unbalanced.

 

But yes, Mosses entire team did suck last season... Himself included.

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:tup:

 

If I may just state my opinion.. Not to take anyone's side here, I would in a heartbeat trade Aaron Rogers for Randy Moss right now. What does that do for the now? It makes the Packers "arguably" the NFC North's best offense.. Detroit and Minn have both lost DB's, and the Bears got burnt deep all year long. As I did ALL last season (and still do with all the bonehead moves they're making), I still think that the Bears are overrated. They need help on offense, yet they GIVE away their best offensive player??? :D Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

 

If you're a Packers fan, I can understand not wanting Moss on your team (I mean he mooned them :D for starters). But from a talent standpoint, one player (and have to agree with Swerski here) "arguably" a top 3 WR in today's game, will take your team from mediocre, to well above average. But if they do take Moss off Oaklands hands, they'd better find a replacement for Ahman Green. As a fan of the Colts, they show that the key to a successful passing game is a strong running game. Moss has stunk it up pretty bad in Oakland. But why? What did he have to play for? A team that had no o-line to give either Brooks or Walter more than a second in the pocket for Moss to burn his defender. He still has that breakaway speed. He's 30. So is Torry Holt. So what? They're pretty comparable on the field. Both have great hands, both have the ability to run a solid route, and both are great at burning their defenders. Oh well.. I dont know, however IMO, I would love R Moss on my team if it would just cost me a backup QB. Who cares where he was drafted cause what has he done for you? What's he doing now??

Edited by Shorttynaz

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(1) If the Packers are building for the future, why is Favre still there?

 

 

 

Favre will never retire.

 

He's going after Blanda's record.:D

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If you're a Packers fan, I can understand not wanting Moss on your team (I mean he mooned them :D for starters). But from a talent standpoint, one player (and have to agree with Swerski here) "arguably" a top 3 WR in today's game, will take your team from mediocre, to well above average. But if they do take Moss off Oaklands hands, they'd better find a replacement for Ahman Green. As a fan of the Colts, they show that the key to a successful passing game is a strong running game. Moss has stunk it up pretty bad in Oakland. But why? What did he have to play for? A team that had no o-line to give either Brooks or Walter more than a second in the pocket for Moss to burn his defender. He still has that breakaway speed. He's 30. So is Torry Holt. So what? They're pretty comparable on the field. Both have great hands, both have the ability to run a solid route, and both are great at burning their defenders. Oh well.. I dont know, however IMO, I would love R Moss on my team if it would just cost me a backup QB. Who cares where he was drafted cause what has he done for you? What's he doing now??

 

 

I still don't understand how you guys can think Moss is a top 3 receiver. He has looked terrible for years now. Say what you want about Moss's team sucking, but he hasnt played well when the opportunity arised. Ive seen dropped balls, even worse route running than before, and a decline in speed. Do you really think that you can just shut it off for two years, then automatically turn it back on and return to what you used to be? Moss has not shown break away speed over the past three years, so I'm wondering what games you've been watching.

Torry Holt is 30 years old, but Torry Holt never realied up running deep and outjumping other guys for the ball. Holt runs pristine routes. Holt has exceptional hands. I don't think anyone is ever going to claim Moss is willing to go over the middle or run amazing routes. Holt gives 100% no matter what place his team is. Holt is class. Moss is none of those things.

But we're not talking Aaron Rodgers for Moss, we're discussing A first rounder for Moss, or Driver for Moss, which Swerski thinks is a good deal.

Here is my HSO... Donald Driver has been a better player than Moss since 04, and will be till the end of there careers.

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2. Are you kidding? Moss right now is an above average wr at best... Johnson, Jarrett, Bowe, Rice, and Ginn all have the potential to be stars. Moss is no longer a star.

 

People were saying the same things about Mushin Muhammad at the beginning of '03, after years of nagging injuries and catching balls from Chris Weinke and Rodney Peete. After a much more competent Jake Delhomme took over and Steve Smith went down with that injury, Muhammad went off for 1,400 yds and 16 TDs. And he fell back to mediocrity the following season with Kyle Orton under center in Ron Turner's bland, predictable offense. Supporting cast makes a tremendous difference.

 

Randy Moss is only three seasons removed from a 1,600 yd, 17 TD season. He's only two seasons removed from tearing the Packers secondary a new one on one leg in the playoffs. He's a year and a half removed from 1,000 yds and 8 TDs with Kerry Freaking Collins throwing him the ball. And he just turned 30 last month. So how is he done physically?

 

Say what you want about Moss' attitude and him quitting on his team (Deion Branch quit on his team last summer, but nevermind that :D ), but he's far from washed up. Put him on a competent offense and he'll produce more than anybody you'll get in the draft.

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