PantherDave Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I'd say if the deal goes through then the Raiders take Calvin Johnson with the first pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I'd say if the deal goes through then the Raiders take Calvin Johnson with the first pick. I think they're better off taking a QB. Neither Walter nor Rodgers look like legitimate NFL starters. Calvin Johnson isn't going to be much help if they don't have somebody to throw the ball to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I think they're better off taking a QB. Neither Walter nor Rodgers look like legitimate NFL starters. Calvin Johnson isn't going to be much help if they don't have somebody to throw the ball to him. No argument here, but this kid is not just another WR in another NFL Draft-he is that freaky talent coming out of college even more so than Moss outta Marshall or Larry outta Pitt. Their O line is abysmal and they need a QB, but if they deal Moss then I'd say they still nab CJ2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 No argument here, but this kid is not just another WR in another NFL Draft-he is that freaky talent coming out of college even more so than Moss outta Marshall or Larry outta Pitt. Their O line is abysmal and they need a QB, but if they deal Moss then I'd say they still nab CJ2. Calvin Johnson is definitely more of a sure thing than Russell or Quinn. They wouldn't be making a mistake in drafting him, but they could also get one of those QBs and another draft pick if they traded down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Calvin Johnson is definitely more of a sure thing than Russell or Quinn. They wouldn't be making a mistake in drafting him, but they could also get one of those QBs and another draft pick if they traded down. True again, but we are talking about the Raiders with the #1 pick, and position aside, the best football player is CJ2. It will be fun to watch come April, but no telling what posturing and moving and dealing will come in the next 5 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Ya thinking Russell and Ginn then . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 1. Because he is Mr. Green Bay... Check and see how many other 30+ year old players are on there team... 2. Are you kidding? Moss right now is an above average wr at best... Johnson, Jarrett, Bowe, Rice, and Ginn all have the potential to be stars. Moss is no longer a star. 2A. Favre was the only thing on the packers other than Driver two years ago. The pack had no running game or offensive line... The raiders had no quarterback or an offensive line, but an explosive Lamount Jordan at the time. Its not that unbalanced. But yes, Mosses entire team did suck last season... Himself included. You are an ididot. If Moss wants to play, he will be a top 3 WR in this league. Better than Harrison, TO or the Arz boys. He still has that unbelievable skill, that few if any have, the ability to get deep, and adjust to catching the ball in mid air on the fly. And he makes it look easy. Moss would extend Favres career by 3 yrs. Favre wouldnt want to quit with that kind of weapon. As good as Driver and Jennings are, and I think they are decent at best, just get a ton of balls which pad those stats, Moss is the messiah compared to those 2 early humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 So, where would they play him? I'd say the slot so they could move him around at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Ya thinking Russell and Ginn then . I think that the Raiders should try to fill one of those holes by trading Moss. Even with his baggage and huge contract, Moss was worth a pretty good LB in Napoleon Harris just two years ago. Given that he's still in his prime age-wise, I'd try to get an OT, young WR, or decent backup QB (like Schaub) for him if I were Al Davis. They can address the other two needs via the draft. Moss' attitude this year certainly reduced Oakland's leverage, but they may gain some back if Moss agrees to re-structure his contract with his new team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 You are an ididot. If Moss wants to play, he will be a top 3 WR in this league. Better than Harrison, TO or the Arz boys. He still has that unbelievable skill, that few if any have, the ability to get deep, and adjust to catching the ball in mid air on the fly. And he makes it look easy. Moss would extend Favres career by 3 yrs. Favre wouldnt want to quit with that kind of weapon. As good as Driver and Jennings are, and I think they are decent at best, just get a ton of balls which pad those stats, Moss is the messiah compared to those 2 early humans. No way! Moss is washed up at age 30 and the Raiders could EASILY find somebody just as talented in the draft. Haven't you heard that first-round picks are worth more than proven NFL talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 No way! Moss is washed up at age 30 and the Raiders could EASILY find somebody just as talented in the draft. Haven't you heard that first-round picks are worth more than proven NFL talent? I don't know. He does still have unreal talent but when used a lot has been hurt the last several years. Last year the whole team was on vacation. In the right situation he could be top 5 if he really tried, but that passion is a real question mark. Too much risk in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Randy played injured for part of last season and wasn't really interested in playing on that team at all. I'm sure that was the cause of at least some of his lack of explosiveness. We all know that Randy only runs routes when he wants to. But you're dead-on correct that lack of conditioning is taking its toll on him. Moss was notorious for not stretching while in MIN and there's no doubt that some of his recent injuries are a direct result of that. Still, like you said, the "slower" 4.35 Randy can still burn most CBs and will stretch the field while commanding a double-team. If he's willing to re-structure his deal, there will be at least a few teams interested in his services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 You are an ididot. If Moss wants to play, he will be a top 3 WR in this league. Better than Harrison, TO or the Arz boys. He still has that unbelievable skill, that few if any have, the ability to get deep, and adjust to catching the ball in mid air on the fly. And he makes it look easy. Moss would extend Favres career by 3 yrs. Favre wouldnt want to quit with that kind of weapon. As good as Driver and Jennings are, and I think they are decent at best, just get a ton of balls which pad those stats, Moss is the messiah compared to those 2 early humans. yeah, gotta agree 100%. anyone who thinks donald driver or some rookie is a better WR than moss has sorta lost their marbles. there is not a single WR in the league who could have done squat with that situation in oakland last year. i doubt vintage jerry rice woulda cracked 1000 yards on that offense. granted, he hasn't had a huge year since 2003...but in 04 and 05 his play was still solid (and dangerous) when he was healthy. he may not have any more 1500+, 15+ TD seasons left in him, but he is still without question one of the handful of top WRs in the game. the baggage he carries makes his value less than a lot of the other top WRs, but he's still worth more than donald driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men In Tights Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 the problem is Packer fans can't step back and think about this trade from Oakland's point of view. I think Oakland should ask for jennings in any trade but no way I would do that. I would be happy with getting Moss as long as you can structure his contract so it doesn't kill your cap. I think the pack are doing/thinking about what they can do to give Favre one final chance at a Super Bowl. Bringing in Moss would help. I also believe Moss is worth a late 1st round pick, I just wouldn't give that up for Moss. Plus, you cannot go crazy saying Moss isn't worth a first round pick and then say they should just trade Rodgers. Rodgers was a 1st round pick. Regardless of what you think about Rodgers he was a 1st round pick. If he is trade for Moss you are trading a 1st round pick for Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Plus, you cannot go crazy saying Moss isn't worth a first round pick and then say they should just trade Rodgers. Rodgers was a 1st round pick. Regardless of what you think about Rodgers he was a 1st round pick. If he is trade for Moss you are trading a 1st round pick for Moss. Deion Branch was worth a first-round pick. Wes Freaking Welker was worth a 2nd-round pick, a 7th-round pick, and $9 million in guaranteed money. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Deion Branch was worth a first-round pick. Wes Freaking Welker was worth a 2nd-round pick, a 7th-round pick, and $9 million in guaranteed money. 'Nuff said. Part of this back and forth is asinine. There is no SET market value for players, other than their contract. Thomas Jones is worth 26 slots in the 2nd round this year. Does that seem like fair value? If not and you think the Bears got jacked, did the Pats get jacked as well? Did the Seahawks last year? A pick's value is different from team to team based on need and who's available. You're not shopping at a store looking at a shelf with set, logical prices. For those of you who don't see that Moss' drop in production is a result of his attitude and think it's a diminishing skills problem haven't been watching. Anyone who trades for Moss will know they're bringing in a headcase who won't pay attention unless it's me, me, me. And even as a Bears fan, I find it very difficult to see a better option in the NFL than GB, in terms of getting his head straight. You don't think Favre wouldn't call him out in a New York second and slap him upside his head if necessary? That's what he needs, and it would be bittesweet for me because I'd hate to see him with the Pack, but take joy in kowing it'd make their fans twist inside like pretzels. Moss would have success there. Big success. Go look at his game stats playing in Lambeau when he was with the Vikes - those conditions didn't effect him much, if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfden1 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 So you guys don't think the Raidahs will go PK in the 1st round?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 So you guys don't think the Raidahs will go PK in the 1st round?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 It would take about 2 days for GB fans to embrace Moss. Packer fans don't hold grudges if you become a Packer. The first time he scores a TD at Lambeau, he'll do a Lambeau Leap and the fans will be hugging him like he was the Messiah. GB fans have their priorities straight. #1 Football #2 everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 You are an ididot. If Moss wants to play, he will be a top 3 WR in this league. Better than Harrison, TO or the Arz boys. He still has that unbelievable skill, that few if any have, the ability to get deep, and adjust to catching the ball in mid air on the fly. And he makes it look easy. Moss would extend Favres career by 3 yrs. Favre wouldnt want to quit with that kind of weapon. As good as Driver and Jennings are, and I think they are decent at best, just get a ton of balls which pad those stats, Moss is the messiah compared to those 2 early humans. If its three years ago, i'd agree with you. You're just angry because I busted your balls because OU was beaten by Boise State. Thank you for your stupidity. No way! Moss is washed up at age 30 and the Raiders could EASILY find somebody just as talented in the draft. Haven't you heard that first-round picks are worth more than proven NFL talent? He's still a decent to above average receiver. His skills are diminishing by the second... But hey, if he really was worth a first round pick why cant the raiders get a 2nd? A lot of GM's agree with me here... But I guess you guys are always right. yeah, gotta agree 100%. anyone who thinks donald driver or some rookie is a better WR than moss has sorta lost their marbles. there is not a single WR in the league who could have done squat with that situation in oakland last year. i doubt vintage jerry rice woulda cracked 1000 yards on that offense. granted, he hasn't had a huge year since 2003...but in 04 and 05 his play was still solid (and dangerous) when he was healthy. he may not have any more 1500+, 15+ TD seasons left in him, but he is still without question one of the handful of top WRs in the game. the baggage he carries makes his value less than a lot of the other top WRs, but he's still worth more than donald driver. Driver produces, has another quality called leadership, and is embraced and loved by the city. Leadership, production at a pro-bowl level for the past three years. I'd much rather have a heartless, classless quitter any day... Especially since he'll influence all the young talent in a positive way. You guys amuse me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 And its not crazy to think that Greg Jennings will be at a higher level during his career than what Moss has left in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 (edited) I don't see Randy as being worth $9.75 million. If he isn't worth $9.75 million, which is what his 2007 salary is, then he isn't even worth a 7th round pick. He isn't worth Noah Herron. He isn't worth one of those hats that carries two beers that you can drink from similtaneously. So it's impossible to discuss what he is worth until we know if he is willing to have his salary cut and what amount he'd be willing to play for. Best post in this thread. If he won't restructure either he'll get cut or stay in OAK; he won't get traded. If he stays in OAK, maybe he plays "inspired football" ... or maybe he doesn't. If he gets cut, why would I want to spend any picks for him when I could sign him to whatever sort of contract I wanted to when he's on the market? Edited March 7, 2007 by muck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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