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Vicky

Any hockey fans?

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Vicky was pretty good with her explanation, but the most noticeable change in the game after the instigator rule was passed was that goons and thugs really went after the other teams skill players in an attempt to get them off the ice. Prior to the instigator rule, if someone tried to run a player like Gretzky, Yzerman, or even Cam Neely, the enforcer for those guy's team would go right after the player trying to run them. The threat of the payback was what kept the skill guys from getting wiped off the ice with a cheap shot. Nowadays, if a top skill player gets run down, their teammates are essentially powerless to do anything about it, because any retaliation will fall under the instigator rule.

 

The instigator also gave rise to players like Jarko Ruutu, Matt Cooke, and others who will play as chippy as they can to take a cheap shot without having to fear any reprisal. At least that's my opinion.

 

 

Yes, that too. :D

 

On paper, the Instigator rule doesn't look like a bad idea. But when you see it carried out and the affects it causes, it ends up being a horrible idea. The Darcy Tuckers of the league no only get to stick around, but they seem to multiply. :D

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On a side note, can you say Kansas City Penguins?

 

either KC or Las Vegas

that is if they ignore the governor AND Bettman because both of them want the Penguins to stay in Pittsburgh

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I agree that the two ref system sucks, but that was never really the issue. The issue was that there was never any consistancy in the game as far as what was called and when it was called. Every game was called different depending on who was reffing. And more importantly, what time of the game it was or what time of the season the game was being played. They have really gotten more consistant with the holding and obstructing calls and this is the reason the game has gotten faster. The two line pass rule has done little. And the instigator penalty has done less.

 

On a side note, can you say Kansas City Penguins?

 

 

 

ehhh, I don't agree. I think the games continue to be even more inconsistently called as we go along. It still depends on the refs, whose playing, where, etc. It sucks when we go to a game, see who's calling it, and instantly know it's going to be a bad night. For example, one of my favorite dingleberries (McCreary, I believe) called the dumbeset of dumb BS penalties on one of our guys a few weeks ago which causes our horrible PK team to go out and ultimately blow it. MOST refs wouldn't have called that penalty. Well, because it wasn't one.

 

The whole crack down on obstruction isn't a bad thing. Who LIKES to watch the trap in action? It's boring as hell. But those penalties are still inconsistent. Sometimes they call it by the book, other times they let almost everything go. You just never know from one game to the next.

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ehhh, I don't agree. I think the games continue to be even more inconsistently called as we go along. It still depends on the refs, whose playing, where, etc. It sucks when we go to a game, see who's calling it, and instantly know it's going to be a bad night. For example, one of my favorite dingleberries (McCreary, I believe) called the dumbeset of dumb BS penalties on one of our guys a few weeks ago which causes our horrible PK team to go out and ultimately blow it. MOST refs wouldn't have called that penalty. Well, because it wasn't one.

 

there was a ref a while back, can't remember his name, but he was this old fart who could barely skate and see. He would always call dumb penalties, to the point where there was a whistle every 30 seconds. One game, there was a rebound in front of the net and there was a bunch of people fighting for it. Eventually it was cleared down the ice and it had already touched the boards on the other end of the rink, but the old fart blew his whistle cuz he lost sight of the puck :D but somehow, everyone else knew where it was

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there was a ref a while back, can't remember his name, but he was this old fart who could barely skate and see. He would always call dumb penalties, to the point where there was a whistle every 30 seconds. One game, there was a rebound in front of the net and there was a bunch of people fighting for it. Eventually it was cleared down the ice and it had already touched the boards on the other end of the rink, but the old fart blew his whistle cuz he lost sight of the puck :D but somehow, everyone else knew where it was

 

 

Sounds like Don Koharski. Sadly, he's still at it.

 

 

Sucks when a ref sucks so bad that you know their name, huh?

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Sounds like Don Koharski. Sadly, he's still at it.

Sucks when a ref sucks so bad that you know their name, huh?

 

exactly. i can't believe that i don't remember his name. i was always yelling about how much he sucked

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I cant stand Frazier. But I dont think the refs are the issue, its the NHL. However, I still think the game is being called more consistantly now than it used to be. I am not saying I agree with the amount of penalties called now, but it is certain that your team cannot survive without good special teams. And this is not the refs fault either. Everyone knew this was going to be the case and it is no ones fault but your teams front office if your not prepared to kill penalties. Go Wings!

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All of this is true. But I have to ask if the game suffered for the instigator penalty?

 

 

The game as a whole probably hasn't suffered too much, with the exception of the skilled players who were hurt as a result of getting run shortly after the instigator rule was established. The two that come to mind immediately are Cam Neely and Steve Yzerman. Cam never recovered, and Stevie Y missed a year. In that sense, the game suffered when players of that caliber are out.

 

But if your trying to increase scoring, what is wrong with limiting the role of the goon? The instigator penalty is rarely called and the goons are fewer and farer betweener.

 

 

The game has evolved to where the goon as we knew him is pretty much nonexistent. Many of the tough guys now have to have some skills to play the game, since the roster spot is too valuable to waste on a player who can only throw a punch. However, I don't think limiting the role of the goon increased scoring. That was accomplished by cracking down on the obstruction calls.

 

The two line pass rule has done little.

 

I have to disagree with you on that one. Getting rid of the two line pass made a hugh difference in breakout opportunities. In the past, all you had to do was watch an NHL game when the rule was in place and then watch a college hockey game which didn't have the 2 line pass rule. It was like night and day for action up and down the ice.

 

On a side note, can you say Kansas City Penguins?

 

:D

Get it done Pittsburgh, keep the Pens there.

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McGeough is bar-none my least favorite referee. I used to like him as he was the only ref who seemed to call diving penalties before the so-called "diving crackdown".

 

But after a handful of plain awful calls, most notably calling back the Hemsky goal versus Dallas early in the season, I can't stand watching games that he calls.

 

 

 

sidenote: Watching my Oilers constantly lose every game after the Smyth deal is making me ill.

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The game as a whole probably hasn't suffered too much, with the exception of the skilled players who were hurt as a result of getting run shortly after the instigator rule was established. The two that come to mind immediately are Cam Neely and Steve Yzerman. Cam never recovered, and Stevie Y missed a year. In that sense, the game suffered when players of that caliber are out.

The game has evolved to where the goon as we knew him is pretty much nonexistent. Many of the tough guys now have to have some skills to play the game, since the roster spot is too valuable to waste on a player who can only throw a punch. However, I don't think limiting the role of the goon increased scoring. That was accomplished by cracking down on the obstruction calls.

I have to disagree with you on that one. Getting rid of the two line pass made a hugh difference in breakout opportunities. In the past, all you had to do was watch an NHL game when the rule was in place and then watch a college hockey game which didn't have the 2 line pass rule. It was like night and day for action up and down the ice.

:D

Get it done Pittsburgh, keep the Pens there.

 

 

I would say that the shortening of the neutral zone has done more that the two line pass. NHL defensemen are so good at reading that pass. I'm not saying the arent ever breaks because of the two line pass. I just dont think it has made a big difference. Anyway, I totally agree with your comment on the obstruction rule.

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ehhh, I don't agree. I think the games continue to be even more inconsistently called as we go along. It still depends on the refs, whose playing, where, etc.

 

 

So you dont think the game is being called the same today as it was in week 1? In last years playoffs was it called the way they had all year? Was it called the same late in the 3rd period as it was in the first period? That is my point. There will always be inconsistancies between different refs. They are human and call different games. But as a whole, they have been calling it the same as they have all year.

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is certain that your team cannot survive without good special teams. And this is not the refs fault either. Everyone knew this was going to be the case and it is no ones fault but your teams front office if your not prepared to kill penalties.

 

 

100% agree with you there! Our PK is absolutely horrible this year. Possibly the worst I remember it being. The PP isn't much better. You'd think that the coach would just do special teams practice for like weeks on end, right? Nope. He doesn't believe in practicing the shootout either, from what I hear.

 

 

There's another horrible Bettman creation - The shootout. Way to make a team effort decided by individual acts, moron! I don't care what people say about how entertaining it can be, it's NOT how a team game should be decided. I couldn't get my husband to agree with that thought until the Caps refused to win shootouts. Well ok, they one ONE this year. :D

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So you dont think the game is being called the same today as it was in week 1? In last years playoffs was it called the way they had all year? Was it called the same late in the 3rd period as it was in the first period? That is my point. There will always be inconsistancies between different refs. They are human and call different games. But as a whole, they have been calling it the same as they have all year.

 

 

It's different from game to game, sometimes night and day different. Sometimes they crack down on the obstruction, others they let it go on as it did 3 years ago. So it's hard to say that it's more consistent since even the same ref will call a totally different game from one game to the next.

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The shootout. Way to make a team effort decided by individual acts, moron! I don't care what people say about how entertaining it can be, it's NOT how a team game should be decided. I couldn't get my husband to agree with that thought until the Caps refused to win shootouts. Well ok, they one ONE this year. :D

 

 

I think any true hockey fan worth his weight in salt would agree with you there. Leave things like shoot outs for soccer fans.

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until the Caps refused to win shootouts. Well ok, they one ONE this year. :D

 

 

:tup: You don't like the shootout because the Caps suck at it. :D

 

FWIW, giving a point for not winning could be the gheyest thing in the history of all sports, regardless of how it's decided. Talk about pussifying the league.

 

Oh, and Ovechkin sucks.

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There's another horrible Bettman creation - The shootout. Way to make a team effort decided by individual acts, moron! I don't care what people say about how entertaining it can be, it's NOT how a team game should be decided. I couldn't get my husband to agree with that thought until the Caps refused to win shootouts. Well ok, they one ONE this year. :D

 

i actually like the shootout. I would rather watch a shootout and be on the edge of my seat the whole time than watch 5 minutes of overtime and have it end in a tie.

 

plus, you get to see stuff like

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I think any true hockey fan worth his weight in salt would agree with you there. Leave things like shoot outs for soccer fans.

 

 

You'd think that, but oddly enough, even some really long time hockey fans love the shootout. I don't get it.

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:D You don't like the shootout because the Caps suck at it. :D

 

FWIW, giving a point for not winning could be the gheyest thing in the history of all sports, regardless of how it's decided. Talk about pussifying the league.

 

Oh, and Ovechkin sucks.

 

 

How about Jagr refusing to take shootouts because he's "not confident". Talk about ghey.

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You'd think that, but oddly enough, even some really long time hockey fans love the shootout. I don't get it.

 

i've watched and played hockey my whole life, and i love it.

for example, in the playoffs, i would rather see a shootout than watch 5 periods of overtime, and possibly fall asleep watching it because it takes forever

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:D You don't like the shootout because the Caps suck at it. :D

 

FWIW, giving a point for not winning could be the gheyest thing in the history of all sports, regardless of how it's decided. Talk about pussifying the league.

 

Oh, and Ovechkin sucks.

 

 

Ovechkin doesn't but Crosby is a whiny baby! :tup:

 

I've never liked the shootout. When they first proposed it, I didn't think they were even serious. lol But yeah, the Caps REALLY suck at it. They've won one this year, and I think scored ANYTHING in the SO in like 3 other games?

Edited by Vicky

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FWIW, giving a point for not winning could be the gheyest thing in the history of all sports, regardless of how it's decided. Talk about pussifying the league.

 

 

 

Truer words have never been spoken. There is nothing worse than watching two teams get ultra conservative at the end of a game just to make sure they get the point.

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