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rattsass

Let me be one of the first to point this out..........

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I personally see no difference. hope you are right though my brother.

I'd rather think the Lions were having a terrible draft. Its just not the case.

 

I hope you are right Zia. I just think for this season he won't be any different than what we had. now next year and the year after I can see us reaping his benefits.

He'll be different in the sense that He'll be able to at least pass block. He should struggle on the run blocking, but thats better than the garbage that they sent out at guard last year.

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I'd rather think the Lions were having a terrible draft. Its just not the case.

He'll be different in the sense that He'll be able to at least pass block. He should struggle on the run blocking, but thats better than the garbage that they sent out at guard last year.

 

 

I know its only 1 game, but he did a great job run blocking at the senior bowl.

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The responses to this post (which I expected) cement my suspicions. Kitna will be a value pick in this years fantasy draft.......again.

 

Last year was the year to have Kitna. Stanton will be looming this year. Especially if the Lions are 2-6/3-5 at midseason.

 

With that in mind, you may not be able rely on Kitna when the FF playoffs come around.

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Last year was the year to have Kitna. Stanton will be looming this year. Especially if the Lions are 2-6/3-5 at midseason.

 

With that in mind, you may not be able rely on Kitna when the FF playoffs come around.

 

 

Stanton won't hit the field unless Kitna gets hurt. One more great year for Kitna.

 

But I am glad that your school of thought is out there.

 

As far as the fantasy playoffs, I will have enough faith in myself to have a plan B in case Kitna flames at the end. Planning for the fantasy playoffs is nice, but plan A is to get there. And drafting Kitna will help get you there.

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Stanton won't hit the field unless Kitna gets hurt. One more great year for Kitna.

 

But I am glad that your school of thought is out there.

 

As far as the fantasy playoffs, I will have enough faith in myself to have a plan B in case Kitna flames at the end. Planning for the fantasy playoffs is nice, but plan A is to get there. And drafting Kitna will help get you there.

 

 

my idea is to have him for the regular season and trade him before the deadline hits in a package deal for an 'elite' QB....

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Jon Kitna will be one of the top two quarterbacks in fantasy football this season.

 

That receiving corps is just sick.

 

 

Seems like every time Detroit drafts a WR in the 1st round we hear this story ...

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Stanton won't hit the field unless Kitna gets hurt. One more great year for Kitna.

 

 

Are you kidding? I predict that Stanton doesn't pass Orlovsky on the depth chart. Did you see his highlights of the combine? He couldn't complete a crossing route pass or throw a spiral with nobody on the field but him and a receiver.

 

His scouting report doesn't just say "Sometimes inconsistent" or "inconsistent"... it says "wildly inconsistent". :D That does not strike me as a first or second year starter.

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Maybe they have everyone hoodwinked and they actually drafted Stanton in order to convert him to WR. :D

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Are you kidding? I predict that Stanton doesn't pass Orlovsky on the depth chart. Did you see his highlights of the combine? He couldn't complete a crossing route pass or throw a spiral with nobody on the field but him and a receiver.

 

His scouting report doesn't just say "Sometimes inconsistent" or "inconsistent"... it says "wildly inconsistent". :D That does not strike me as a first or second year starter.

 

 

Right. Anybody thinking Kitna's job is in jeopardy this season is loony.

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Are you kidding? I predict that Stanton doesn't pass Orlovsky on the depth chart. Did you see his highlights of the combine? He couldn't complete a crossing route pass or throw a spiral with nobody on the field but him and a receiver.

 

His scouting report doesn't just say "Sometimes inconsistent" or "inconsistent"... it says "wildly inconsistent". :D That does not strike me as a first or second year starter.

 

Is Orlovsky that much better? Are there any Orlovsky highlights? He couldn't pass McCown on the depth chart.

 

With new schemes and coaching staff almost everyone in the Lions org gets a mulligan after their first season with 3 wins. Another 2-4 win season is not an option. This doesn't mean that QB is the only problem in Detroit. Far from it. I like Kitna but he's no career starter, never has been. It will only be a matter of time before you see either Stanton or Orlovsky under center.

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I have not done projections and rankings yet

 

 

 

Slacker.

Edited by Fatman

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Seems like every time Detroit drafts a WR in the 1st round we hear this story ...

 

 

Yep....But we have Martz right now which does mean something...also ... :D

 

Are you kidding? I predict that Stanton doesn't pass Orlovsky on the depth chart. Did you see his highlights of the combine? He couldn't complete a crossing route pass or throw a spiral with nobody on the field but him and a receiver.

 

His scouting report doesn't just say "Sometimes inconsistent" or "inconsistent"... it says "wildly inconsistent". :D That does not strike me as a first or second year starter.

 

 

I also expect him to start off as the 3rd QB.

 

 

Right. Anybody thinking Kitna's job is in jeopardy this season is loony.

 

 

I agree.

 

Is Orlovsky that much better? Are there any Orlovsky highlights? He couldn't pass McCown on the depth chart.

 

 

Orvlovsky did pass McCoun on the depth chart last year.

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Is Orlovsky that much better? Are there any Orlovsky highlights? He couldn't pass McCown on the depth chart.

 

 

Orvlovsky did pass McCoun on the depth chart last year.

 

 

 

IIRC, McCown was the highest paid QB in DET last year (i.e., he was brought in to be the starter). He didn't win the job because he's viewed as being "not that bright" (and I maybe am being generous with that assessment). That said, McCown has been a starter in the league (with some success in ARI, just ask MIN about his last second heroics that kept MIN out of the playoffs a couple of years ago). He has a future as a player for at least a couple more seasons as a back-up / spot stater (he'll probably get the nod for the first few games in OAK, much like Kerry Collins did in TEN last year). But, once DET knew he wouldn't be a starter last year, they wanted to get Orlovsky as many reps as possible to see what they had (and did not have) in him, so they'd know what they'd need to do in this years' draft.

 

Next, if Martz's system requires anything, it requires timing and accuracy, and Stanton would appear to have neither. Therefore, given his scouting reports, drafting Stanton seems like a "Ford Family pick" given that he went to MSU because he will help put butts in seats (see Charlie Batch and to a lesser extent Charles Rogers).

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Is Orlovsky that much better? Are there any Orlovsky highlights? He couldn't pass McCown on the depth chart.

 

 

My point was not that Orlovsky was awesome... so much as it would take a while for Stanton to be NFL ready.

 

I AM a UConn homer... but I don't delude myself that Orlovsky is Peyton Manning. Eli... maybe... :D

 

Orvlovsky did pass McCown on the depth chart last year.

 

 

Booya! I Da Face!!!! :D

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I'd rather think the Lions were having a terrible draft. Its just not the case.

He'll be different in the sense that He'll be able to at least pass block. He should struggle on the run blocking, but thats better than the garbage that they sent out at guard last year.

 

 

 

I know its only 1 game, but he did a great job run blocking at the senior bowl.

 

 

For every on good pass blocker that is a poor run blocker you can name ten good run blockers that are poor pass blockers. The reason lineman love to run block is it is easier that pass blocking.

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I also mentioned the term "value pick".

 

The people taking quarterbacks in the first 3 rounds will be quite surprised when my 8th round Kitna pick matches their numbers.

 

I'm just trying to help people win championships here. :D

 

 

The hype surrounding Kitna will force some managers to pull the trigger to early on him,....theres one in every league that consistantly drafts players too early. Given that Kitna finished around the top 5 QBs last year and his WR corps is perceived to increase in talent, he will be drafted somewhere around the 5th through 7th QB...which in my league ends up being the 4th round. There is no value there.

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The hype surrounding Kitna will force some managers to pull the trigger to early on him,....theres one in every league that consistantly drafts players too early. Given that Kitna finished around the top 5 QBs last year and his WR corps is perceived to increase in talent, he will be drafted somewhere around the 5th through 7th QB...which in my league ends up being the 4th round. There is no value there.

 

 

...emphasis added...

 

NOTE: We're not all in your league.

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...emphasis added...

 

NOTE: We're not all in your league.

 

 

Muck, If Kitna was taken in as the 5th through 7th QB, approx. which round would he go in your league?

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IIRC, McCown was the highest paid QB in DET last year (i.e., he was brought in to be the starter). He didn't win the job because he's viewed as being "not that bright" (and I maybe am being generous with that assessment). That said, McCown has been a starter in the league (with some success in ARI, just ask MIN about his last second heroics that kept MIN out of the playoffs a couple of years ago). He has a future as a player for at least a couple more seasons as a back-up / spot stater (he'll probably get the nod for the first few games in OAK, much like Kerry Collins did in TEN last year). But, once DET knew he wouldn't be a starter last year, they wanted to get Orlovsky as many reps as possible to see what they had (and did not have) in him, so they'd know what they'd need to do in this years' draft.

 

Next, if Martz's system requires anything, it requires timing and accuracy, and Stanton would appear to have neither. Therefore, given his scouting reports, drafting Stanton seems like a "Ford Family pick" given that he went to MSU because he will help put butts in seats (see Charlie Batch and to a lesser extent Charles Rogers).

 

 

Actually Kitna was the starter the minute he signed. the team was behind him right from the start.McCown was brought in for competition and just in case Kitna was not what they thought. I think they are happy with Orvlosky for now until they can get Stanton ready as the number 2. I think Stanton really could suprise and become a good player and possibly a decent starter a few years down the line.

 

I do like you hate Ford family picks (Chuck Long,Andre Ware and Joe Harrington come to mind) but I think Stanton is someone the organization thinks was very underrated and that is why they took him.

 

The hype surrounding Kitna will force some managers to pull the trigger to early on him,....theres one in every league that consistantly drafts players too early. Given that Kitna finished around the top 5 QBs last year and his WR corps is perceived to increase in talent, he will be drafted somewhere around the 5th through 7th QB...which in my league ends up being the 4th round. There is no value there.

 

 

 

I agree. Kitna will IMO go to high in every draft.

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Muck, If Kitna was taken in as the 5th through 7th QB, approx. which round would he go in your league?

 

 

First, what round the 5th to 7th QB is taken depends on the size of your league, the number of starters you play each week, team roster requirements and scoring rules.

 

Second, I'm no longer in any redrafter leagues (although I've been in several); both of my leagues are salary cap contract leagues.

 

Third, in all the relatively traditionally scoring leagues, with reasonable roster and starter requirements, that were also re-drafters that I was in ... I would usually see two or three QBs go before the end of the third round (12 team leagues). The 7th QB would probably be taken by the end of the 6th round (maybe the very end of the 5th round) ... with a couple of teams not taking a QB at all until the 9th, 10th or 11th round (and then, possibly using two or three picks in a row on QBs in order to play QBBC all year, unless one got on a roll).

 

Fourth ... if I think Kitna is the 5th best QB and I have to take him in the 4th round, that is not a value. If, however, I can get him towards the end of the 5th, or maybe even in the 6th or 7th round, THAT is a value.

Edited by muck

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First, what round the 5th to 7th QB is taken depends on the size of your league, the number of starters you play each week, team roster requirements and scoring rules.

 

Second, I'm no longer in any redrafter leagues (although I've been in several); both of my leagues are salary cap contract leagues.

 

Third, in all the relatively traditionally scoring leagues, with reasonable roster and starter requirements, that were also re-drafters that I was in ... I would usually see two or three QBs go before the end of the third round (12 team leagues). The 7th QB would probably be taken by the end of the 6th round (maybe the very end of the 5th round) ... with a couple of teams not taking a QB at all until the 9th, 10th or 11th round (and then, possibly using two or three picks in a row on QBs in order to play QBBC all year, unless one got on a roll).

 

Fourth ... if I think Kitna is the 5th best QB and I have to take him in the 4th round, that is not a value. If, however, I can get him towards the end of the 5th, or maybe even in the 6th or 7th round, THAT is a value.

 

 

 

First, I'm well aware of the fact that leagues vary in size, scoring, and roster requirements which impact draft strategy. (note to self: Never ever include my league as an example)

Second, salary cap contract leagues are way over the head of about 25% of the managers in my main league, but I like the concept.

Third, thank you for your answer.

Fourth, I agree with your conclusion based on your redraft league.

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My point was not that Orlovsky was awesome... so much as it would take a while for Stanton to be NFL ready.

 

Can't disagree there but never underestimate the desperation of a crappy team. They'll throw Stanton to the wolves if the team is 3-9 and the staff is looking to preserve their jobs the following season.

 

About Kitna's value being inflated this year... this is dead on. The Lions aren't hanging there hat on Kitna long term. The long term becomes short term if the team is heading for another top 5 draft pick.

 

I think I got Kitna in the 10th or 11th last year. I wouldn't spend anything higher again this year on Kitna but there's no way he'll last that far again. He was good don't get me wrong but in a league that penalized for turnovers his FF numbers were incredibly frustrating. If Kitna starts out hot but the Lions are still losing, he's a perfect sell-high commodity in those first few weeks to some pour unsuspecting desperate soul.

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Can't disagree there but never underestimate the desperation of a crappy team. They'll throw Stanton to the wolves if the team is 3-9 and the staff is looking to preserve their jobs the following season.

 

About Kitna's value being inflated this year... this is dead on. The Lions aren't hanging there hat on Kitna long term. The long term becomes short term if the team is heading for another top 5 draft pick.

 

I think I got Kitna in the 10th or 11th last year. I wouldn't spend anything higher again this year on Kitna but there's no way he'll last that far again. He was good don't get me wrong but in a league that penalized for turnovers his FF numbers were incredibly frustrating. If Kitna starts out hot but the Lions are still losing, he's a perfect sell-high commodity in those first few weeks to some pour unsuspecting desperate soul.

 

 

 

Even if we are headed for another top draft pick...if the offense is doing well Kitna will keep his job. and with Martz as the OC I can't see us doing anything but improving offensively next season. I think people are underestimating the time period they are expecting Kitna to be the starting QB in Detroit. I think he is our QB for the next 3 years unless Stanton or Orvlosky or someone else really starts pushing him in practice. I mean I know that is not a long term guy...but IMO he has no worries whatsoever as to if he is gonna be the starter for this season and the next.

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Value is value. Last year Kitna was had in the 9th round or later. I'm not sure how many quarterbacks were drafted ahead of him in most leagues, but I would guess around 13-15 if memory serves me correctly. He ended up around the 6th best QB when it was all said and done.

 

This season I will project him even higher in the quarterback rankings. So if I can get him as anything later than the 5th quarterback off the board I am in good shape as far as I am concerned.

 

No, you will not get Kitna in the 10th round of this years drafts. But if you get him between the 5th and 8th round of most leagues, that will be a solid pick.

 

Still lots of time for things to play out between now and then, but that's the way I am thinking right now.

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