Suns vs. Spurs

[Shorttynaz]

In the game last night (game #4) the Suns really had no business winning that game after 3 quarters. But I think we (for anyone who watched it) witnessed a team really grow up and mature in just 1 quarter of play. That was HUGE!!! Before yesterday, I thought that San Antonio was going to take it in 5. Now, I honestly believe that the Suns will take it in 6. I do not see them losing at home Wednesday after the way that they scrapped their way back into that game and re-gained home court advantage. I mean people have said that the Suns are soft, and they play no defense. It's their defense that has this series tied at 2 games a piece. Maybe they do lose a close one on Friday in San Antonio and take it the distance and bring it back home on Sunday to wrap up this series at home in game 7 on Sunday.

 

I'm curious of what others think of the last few seconds of game 4 (if anyone stayed up late enough to watch it) when Horry leveled Steve Nash and sent him flying on his back into the scorer's table. I really do believe that Horry will not suit up tomorrow night in Phoenix. Will San Antonio miss him? Not at all.. There's talk that Stoudemire and Diaw will get suspended for leaving the bench durring a shoving match at center court involving Horry and Raja Bell. How is this justified. I mean I do know that a rule is a rule. But what message will the league be sending if they do suspend both of them? If that's the case, then in game 5, the Suns should wait until Duncan and Ginobli (players of the same caliber) are both on the bench. At that time, they should put in a BIG Mr. Irrelevent (Pat Burke or Jalen Rose) and just go and LEVEL Tony Parker. Take a cheap shot on him. Do all that's possible to hurt him. That will spark Duncan and Ginobli to come off the bench and come to Parker's defense. That's ALL Stoudemire and Diaw were doing IMO. And to make it worse, they didnt even leave the bench area. They were not involved.

 

My question in this topic is, do you think STAT and Diaw will be suspended? Is it fair??

[Sgt. Ryan]

San Antonio in 7. I dont see San Antonio giving Phoenix another game, they clearly have in hand, like last night.

[wildcat2334]

San Antonio in 7. I dont see San Antonio giving Phoenix another game, they clearly have in hand, like last night.

 

 

 

well, it all depends on the Diaw/Stat suspensions...... if they are, then I agree - SA in 6/7. If they aren't - I like the Suns in 7. Major step forward last night, they are toughing up game by game, last night was hugh.

 

For some reason I think Stu will let em play, and seems to be letting the players decide these games.

 

Go SUNS!

[Shorttynaz]

San Antonio in 7. I dont see San Antonio giving Phoenix another game, they clearly have in hand, like last night.

 

But on the flip side, the Suns had game 1 and gave it away.

[Doc Holliday]

I also think you are seeing Phoenix grow up. no team can match them big man for big man and noone can run with them.

 

It is their half court offense and defense that has been their past problems IMO but they are showing signs of moving past that problem.

 

Getting past a Tim Duncan led team is always gonna be tough and I think whoever wins this series wins it all but I think Phoenix led by Marion can get them past S.A. this year and will be the new champs.

[Shorttynaz]

well, it all depends on the Diaw/Stat suspensions...... if they are, then I agree - SA in 6/7. If they aren't - I like the Suns in 7. Major step forward last night, they are toughing up game by game, last night was hugh.

 

For some reason I think Stu will let em play, and seems to be letting the players decide these games.

 

Go SUNS!

 

Also, I haven't seen it and I dont recall who was on the floor when the foul happened, but I've heard on the radio numerous times this morning that Duncan falls into this category as well. They (radio show I'm listening to right now) state that Duncan was on the bench, and he as well got up and stepped on to the court. I dont know. All we can do is wait for the ruling.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Shorttynaz

[Sgt. Ryan]

These is no way around this. Amare and Diaw will be suspended. They left the bench and went onto the floor. Its and automatic suspension, no matter what.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...15&sportCat=nba

 

 

A historical question: Could Robert Horry's cheap shot on Steve Nash in Game 4 be the biggest shot of his career?

 

 

 

 

 

AP Photo/Lm Otero

It wasn't a 3-pointer, but Robert Horry may have struck the biggest blow in a playoff series yet again.The trey Horry nailed to destroy the Sacramento Kings' NBA title hopes in 2002 did nothing compared to the damage his forearm could do to the Phoenix Suns, who until the final 18 seconds of Monday night's critical Game 4 were tougher than the San Antonio Spurs. The forearm buried Nash underneath the scorer's table, but most importantly, it incited Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw to charge onto the court from the bench -- which all but guarantees them a suspension for Game 5 in Phoenix.

 

 

Hey, they don't call him Big Shot Bob for nothing.

 

 

If the NBA hands out the expected suspensions, the Spurs will lose only the whopping seven points per game Horry is averaging in this series. Meanwhile, Phoenix will lose two of its top six players and a serious chance to put the Spurs' neck in a guillotine.

 

 

Is it fair? No. Is it right? Absolutely. The NBA doesn't have much choice but to suspend Horry, Stoudemire and Diaw for Game 5.

 

The rule about players leaving the bench is there to prevent situations from escalating into utter embarrassments. It's an ironclad rule that isn't open to interpretation, and it can't be applied differently because it adversely affects one team more than the other. In fact, the point of the rule is to affect teams so adversely they don't break it.

 

 

If the league does nothing to Stoudemire and Diaw, it will set an awful precedent and send the message that the rules are vulnerable to perception and public outcry. As if the Suns are the only team in NBA history that can claim this rule puts them at an unfair disadvantage.

 

 

And there's no way Stoudemire just was ambling to the scorer's table to check back into the game, as he claimed afterward. Give him (or the Suns' PR rep) credit for coming up with such a cute excuse. But go watch the replay. Stoudemire broke out into a Carl Lewis-like sprint toward the on-court scrum -- looking like he wanted to do to Horry what Uma Thurman did to David Carradine in the final scene of "Kill Bill: Vol. 2" -- which weakens Stoudemire's creative explanation.

 

Look, I get why Stoudemire and Diaw rushed to Nash's defense. Nash is their boy, and teammates are obligated to stick up for one another -- especially in a series that has grown as testy as this one. The Spurs were behaving uncharacteristically graceless, and Horry's forearm of frustration was exacted because the Spurs blew an 11-point lead late in the game -- and thus a golden opportunity to put their foot on Phoenix's neck.

 

 

 

We'll see if David Stern buys Amare Stoudemire's explanation, or just shows him some mercy.But given how commissioner David Stern has shown zero tolerance for player misconduct since the Detroit-Indiana brawl, what Stoudemire and Diaw did simply wasn't smart. And by the way, did you notice how the Spurs' bench stayed put, further undermining Stoudemire's contrived explanation?

 

 

You'd have thought the Suns would have learned from Raja Bell's one-game playoff suspension against the Lakers last year. Bell's clothesline on Kobe Bryant could have cost the Suns that series.

 

 

The Spurs are much stronger than the Lakers, and losing Stoudemire and Diaw will hurt a whole lot more than losing Bell. Even if the league decides to suspend Horry for two games, Phoenix will be affected much more.

 

 

Of course, this is going to fuel speculation that Horry's cheap shot was on purpose. But all it does is show exactly how much the Spurs are in Phoenix's head.

 

 

The Suns won Game 4, but the Spurs are winning the mental war. The Suns' gritty victory was powerful enough to change this series permanently in their direction, but they've now given the power back to the Spurs with one bad decision.

 

 

The Spurs maintain a certain advantage as long they can yank Phoenix's chain whenever they want. And Big Shot Bob's reputation for delivering in the playoffs continues to be well-deserved.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Sgt. Ryan]

Also, I haven't seen it and I dont recall who was on the floor when the foul happened, but I've heard on the radio numerous times this morning that Duncan falls into this category as well. They (radio show I'm listening to right now) state that Duncan was on the bench, and he as well got up and stepped on to the court. I dont know. All we can do is wait for the ruling.

 

 

Duncan wont get suspended. He didnt leave the bench area.

[Shorttynaz]

Duncan wont get suspended. He didnt leave the bench area.

 

I haven't seen it. I'm just relaying what is being said on the radio. It seems almost if they're nitpicking.

 

Regardless, I think we'll see a rule change or a modification to the rule cause if they dont, and if Stoudemire and/or Diaw get suspended I see a LOT of people/teams using this poor rule to their advantage in similar situations. Put in Mr. Irrelevant and let him get ejected to level someone in hopes of drawing the bench onto the court.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Shorttynaz

[Sgt. Ryan]

I haven't seen it. I'm just relaying what is being said on the radio. It seems almost if they're nitpicking.

 

Regardless, I think we'll see a rule change or a modification to the rule cause if they dont, and if Stoudemire and/or Diaw get suspended I see a LOT of people/teams using this poor rule to their advantage in similar situations. Put in Mr. Irrelevant and let him get ejected to level someone in hopes of drawing the bench onto the court.

 

 

 

LMMFAO, take the homer glasses off. Big Shot BoB is hardly Mr irrelevant. He has done more in his career than this whole Suns squad has combined. And San Antonio was clearly frustrated they gave this game away. Either way, with or without Amare, Phoenix is going down in game 5, and this series is probably over in 6. This was just the feul SA needed to put away lil brother.

[Shorttynaz]

LMMFAO, take the homer glasses off. Big Shot BoB is hardly Mr irrelevant. He has done more in his career than this whole Suns squad has combined. And San Antonio was clearly frustrated they gave this game away. Either way, with or without Amare, Phoenix is going down in game 5, and this series is probably over in 6. This was just the feul SA needed to put away lil brother.

 

How can you say hardly Mr. Irrelevant? He's good for what?? Maybe 6-8 pts a game. 10 minutes off the bench? My point here is are the Spurs REALLY going to miss Robert Horry? Not at all. Even if STAT and Diaw dont get suspended. Michael Finley AND Brent Barry have been more clutch for the Spurs than Horry has.. Horry has hit some big time game ending shots, but he's missed quite a few as well.. He's not a starter for a reason.

 

My point is/was simply if these 2 Suns players do get suspended, look for more teams to abuse this rule in the same manner. So if Jalen Rose came into the game in the 3rd quarter and just outright leveled Tony Parker in game 5 or 6, and then walked away with his head held high like Horry did, the Spurs bench would just stand pat and watch but not come to Parker's defense??? It's natural to come to your boy's defense. I dont know. I am a Suns homer and I dont think that Stat did the right thing, but it would have been much different if he did get in the middle of Nash and Horry. Was he checking in? HA!! Good try bro.. It was rather funny on how quickly he answered that yesterday in his postgame press conference with such a straight face. Nice sell! Will it be bought?? I'm afraid not.

[Sgt. Ryan]

How can you say hardly Mr. Irrelevant? He's good for what?? Maybe 6-8 pts a game. 10 minutes off the bench? My point here is are the Spurs REALLY going to miss Robert Horry? Not at all. Even if STAT and Diaw dont get suspended. Michael Finley AND Brent Barry have been more clutch for the Spurs than Horry has.. Horry has hit some big time game ending shots, but he's missed quite a few as well.. He's not a starter for a reason.

 

My point is/was simply if these 2 Suns players do get suspended, look for more teams to abuse this rule in the same manner. So if Jalen Rose came into the game in the 3rd quarter and just outright leveled Tony Parker in game 5 or 6, and then walked away with his head held high like Horry did, the Spurs bench would just stand pat and watch but not come to Parker's defense??? It's natural to come to your boy's defense. I dont know. I am a Suns homer and I dont think that Stat did the right thing, but it would have been much different if he did get in the middle of Nash and Horry. Was he checking in? HA!! Good try bro.. It was rather funny on how quickly he answered that yesterday in his postgame press conference with such a straight face. Nice sell! Will it be bought?? I'm afraid not.

 

 

Clueless. Horry has won championships everywhere he has been. Houston, LA, and now San Antonio. Dude is as clutch as any when the game is on the line. And in a series like this, that is key. Whether SA will miss Horry or not, is irrelevant, not Horry himself. Saying so makes you look foolish. Again, take off the homer glasses. Phoenix is not the better team, the Spurs are in their head, and clearly can win in Phoenix, and wont lose again at home.

 

BTW, Barbaso, Stackhouse and Gino are not starters either, for a reason. Its called give your team a shot in the arm, coming off the bench, and spreading out the scoring, when players need a rest. Are you telling me, those 3 above are not one of the 5 best players for each of their team. But they still come off the bench, and all 3, including Horry are in the game in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line. If he was irrelevant, he would be on the bench come crunch time, period.

[Sgt. Ryan]

I haven't seen it. I'm just relaying what is being said on the radio. It seems almost if they're nitpicking.

 

Regardless, I think we'll see a rule change or a modification to the rule cause if they dont, and if Stoudemire and/or Diaw get suspended I see a LOT of people/teams using this poor rule to their advantage in similar situations. Put in Mr. Irrelevant and let him get ejected to level someone in hopes of drawing the bench onto the court.

 

 

 

Lets see you are in Phoenix according to your location at this site. So Im local radio is trying to cry foul on anything, grasping at straws. And what kind of fan are you, who hasnt seen it, but are posting about it. Seriously, watch the game, before you spout off. or at least dont tell us you didnt see it. That makes you look very foolish, arguing with people who did watch it, and actually know what happened.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Shorttynaz]

Lets see you are in Phoenix according to your location at this site. So Im local radio is trying to cry foul on anything, grasping at straws. And what kind of fan are you, who hasnt seen it, but are posting about it. Seriously, watch the game, before you spout off. or at least dont tell us you didnt see it. That makes you look very foolish, arguing with people who did watch it, and actually know what happened.

 

I did watch it. And it's not a local show. It's ESPN radio being broadcast from Los Angeles. If anything, the guys hosting the show are not fans of the Suns for obvious reasons.

 

And to contrast what you said about the Spurs being the better team? They've had success in the past. They're extremely talented, well coached, and have some outstanding veterans, but does that make them better? It's all someone's opinion.. You're entitled to yours..

 

However, who had the better regular season record? Who is the higher seed? They all played the same teams in the regular season. The Spurs are more physical, the Suns are obviously faster. I'm not saying the Suns are the better team, nor am I saying the Spurs are the better team. They're 2 completely different teams. I can only hope that this series is not won due to key players not being available for a game. Put it all out on the floor and may the better team win. No one has the advantage right now. Suns have home court back in this now in this 3 game series.

[wildcat2334]

LMMFAO, take the homer glasses off. Big Shot BoB is hardly Mr irrelevant. He has done more in his career than this whole Suns squad has combined. And San Antonio was clearly frustrated they gave this game away. Either way, with or without Amare, Phoenix is going down in game 5, and this series is probably over in 6. This was just the feul SA needed to put away lil brother.

 

 

 

I dunno- I think Amare & Diaw may escape a suspension........ it wasn't really a fight or an altercation, they have been lenient on Bowen, and JRich, I think they may let the players decide the outcome, when there was no real harm done. It would be the right call.

 

SA didn't give it away private- PHX outplayed them and out-executed down the stretch. Pop should not have sat Duncan. Nash can do whatever he wants with Bowen on him -

[Sgt. Ryan]

I did watch it. And it's not a local show. It's ESPN radio being broadcast from Los Angeles. If anything, the guys hosting the show are not fans of the Suns for obvious reasons.

 

And to contrast what you said about the Spurs being the better team? They've had success in the past. They're extremely talented, well coached, and have some outstanding veterans, but does that make them better? It's all someone's opinion.. You're entitled to yours..

 

However, who had the better regular season record? Who is the higher seed? They all played the same teams in the regular season. The Spurs are more physical, the Suns are obviously faster. I'm not saying the Suns are the better team, nor am I saying the Spurs are the better team. They're 2 completely different teams. I can only hope that this series is not won due to key players not being available for a game. Put it all out on the floor and may the better team win. No one has the advantage right now. Suns have home court back in this now in this 3 game series.

 

 

 

Id say the rings say the Spurs are a better team, as they have been there before and know what it takes to win it all. Phoenix has not, and its not that easy, even if you are as talented as Phoenix. Dallas can prove that last yr, being up 2-0 with a 13 pt lead in the 4th of game 3, and went on to lose that game and 3 more straight. Also, there is a huge difference between regular season success and playoff success. Dallas had a better record than Phoenix, so by your standard they are a better team than the Suns. But they are home fishing. So I guess I dont follow your point. Are you saying the better team can not be beaten. GS proved your wrong and so did NJ beating Toronto in the East.

 

And if Amare and Diaw are suspended, SA has a huge advantage to take game 5, then come home to close this out. So again, your logic, and posts contradict themselves. Either that, or you dont have a clue. I will give you the benefit of the doubt though.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Sgt. Ryan]

I dunno- I think Amare & Diaw may escape a suspension........ it wasn't really a fight or an altercation, they have been lenient on Bowen, and JRich, I think they may let the players decide the outcome, when there was no real harm done. It would be the right call.

 

SA didn't give it away private- PHX outplayed them and out-executed down the stretch. Pop should not have sat Duncan. Nash can do whatever he wants with Bowen on him -

 

 

Difference is the rules are clear about this, and the JRich situation was allegedly an altercation with a Dallas fan, with no real video evidence to prove what happened. I dont see Stern letting up here at all. And I completely disagree SA didnt give this game away. Ill agree Phoenix out executed, but that still doesnt change the fact that SA gave the game away. You have to make teams pay for mental mistakes etc. , and PHO did. But SA doesnt make those often, and it cost them the game. You wont convince me otherwise. I watched the game as well.......

Edited May 15, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Doc Holliday]

Id say the rings say the Spurs are a better team, and there is a huge difference between regular season success and playoff success. Dallas had a better record than Phoenix, so by your standard they are a better team than the Suns. But they are home fishing.

 

And if Amare and Diaw are suspended, SA has a huge advantage to take game 5, then come home to close this out. So again, your logic, and posts contradict themselves. Either that, or you dont have a clue. I will give you the benefit of the doubt though.

 

 

 

The rings say they were the better team when they won those rings. they have not won a ring yet this season. Duncans Spurs were the best team in the NBA when he got his 1st ring..you can't get a 2nd without a 1st.I believe the Suns are fixing to get their 1st (although my homerism wants me to say my Pistons).

 

If Stoud sits I agree with you that the Suns will be hurting. that being said..I think the Suns can beat the Spurs without Stoud at home. Diaw is not as huge a loss as many think IMO just as Horry will not be a big loss for the Spurs.

 

Gonna be interesting to see who is involved in all this. someone here said Duncan left the bench? if this is true knowing the NBA they won't give anyone a suspension because they WON'T suspend Duncan and they can't suspend the others that left the bench if they don't suspend him too(if in fact he left the bench).

[Sgt. Ryan]

The rings say they were the better team when they won those rings. they have not won a ring yet this season. Duncans Spurs were the best team in the NBA when he got his 1st ring..you can't get a 2nd without a 1st.I believe the Suns are fixing to get their 1st (although my homerism wants me to say my Pistons).

 

If Stoud sits I agree with you that the Suns will be hurting. that being said..I think the Suns can beat the Spurs without Stoud at home. Diaw is not as huge a loss as many think IMO just as Horry will not be a big loss for the Spurs.

 

Gonna be interesting to see who is involved in all this. someone here said Duncan left the bench? if this is true knowing the NBA they won't give anyone a suspension because they WON'T suspend Duncan and they can't suspend the others that left the bench if they don't suspend him too(if in fact he left the bench).

 

 

 

I elaborated the above to get my point across.

 

"Id say the rings say the Spurs are a better team, as they have been there before and know what it takes to win it all. Phoenix has not, and its not that easy, even if you are as talented as Phoenix. Dallas can prove that last yr, being up 2-0 with a 13 pt lead in the 4th of game 3, and went on to lose that game and 3 more straight"

 

 

 

And last yr when Amare was out Diaw played Center. Losing them both will kill them in game 5. There is no way Kurt Thomas is going to play 48 minutes and be effective stopping Duncan and score like Amare and/or Diaw can do.

[wirehairman]

I'll make the disclaimer now that I am a diehard Spurs fan going back to pre-Dave. That being said, last night's game left me with a lot of questions.

 

What if Duncan had not errouneously got called for an offensive foul against Nash when Nash clearly was within the Shaq circle and Timmy could have played more aggresively down the stretch with only four fouls?

 

What the hell was Horry thinking when he body checked Nash? Horry has been a class act for 15 seasons. I understand he was frustrated, but it would be a shame to see him end his career on that note.

 

Will Stoudemire and Diaw be suspended for game 5? They obviously left the bench, and the league has made that one of the only iron-clad rules. (By the way, Duncan was on the floor at the time and did not leave the bench to pull Bell off Horry.)

 

Anyway, it was a great game, and the Suns finally showed some grit, particularly Nash after game 3. This is the best series of the playoffs, and even though I firmly believe the Spurs will win in 6, I'd rather not see them do it against a depleted Suns roster.

[Doc Holliday]

I elaborated the above to get my point across.

 

"Id say the rings say the Spurs are a better team, as they have been there before and know what it takes to win it all. Phoenix has not, and its not that easy, even if you are as talented as Phoenix. Dallas can prove that last yr, being up 2-0 with a 13 pt lead in the 4th of game 3, and went on to lose that game and 3 more straight"

And last yr when Amare was out Diaw played Center. Losing them both will kill them in game 5. There is no way Kurt Thomas is going to play 48 minutes and be effective stopping Duncan and score like Amare and/or Diaw can do.

 

 

 

I think Marion and Thomas can do the job. I mean..you are not gonna stop Duncan anyways..you just have to make it tough on him.IMO Marion can do that better than anyone in the league. the real problems will come on offense for the Suns IMO. Stouds points on the inside and his ability to make Duncan work hard defensively is gonna be the real problems. on the road I don't think they can overcome it...but at home I think they can.

[Shorttynaz]

Duncan wont get suspended. He didnt leave the bench area.

 

Just to clear this up.. I was under the impression they were referring to the end of the game with the play between Horry and Nash.

 

The claim here is in the 2nd quarter there was an altercation between James Jones and Elson. This is what they were refering to when they said Duncan left the bench. They claim that he was all the way out there by the 3 point line. I didnt see this for I was out with my wife. I saw the entire 2nd half.

[detlef]

LMMFAO, take the homer glasses off. Big Shot BoB is hardly Mr irrelevant. He has done more in his career than this whole Suns squad has combined. And San Antonio was clearly frustrated they gave this game away. Either way, with or without Amare, Phoenix is going down in game 5, and this series is probably over in 6. This was just the feul SA needed to put away lil brother.

 

To begin with, it seems as if the comment was about how the rule could be abused in the future. ie: put some hack in late for a cheap shot and see if you can get a better player from the other team to bite.

 

Secondly, surely you're not arguing that the Suns don't get a far worse deal on this if all three are suspended.

[Sgt. Ryan]

To begin with, it seems as if the comment was about how the rule could be abused in the future. ie: put some hack in late for a cheap shot and see if you can get a better player from the other team to bite.

 

Secondly, surely you're not arguing that the Suns don't get a far worse deal on this if all three are suspended.

 

 

 

Suns have no dicipline, if they did they would have stayed put like the SA bench did. And as stated above Horry is no hack, dude has more skins on the wall than every sun combined. He was frustrated, will get suspended, but rules are rules. And so should those suns who left the bench. Period......

[Doc Holliday]

Suns have no dicipline, if they did they would have stayed put like the SA bench did. And as stated above Horry is no hack, dude has more skins on the wall than every sun combined. He was frustrated, will get suspended, but rules are rules. And so should those suns who left the bench. Period......

 

 

 

Horry has been clutch. no doubt about that. I compare him to a Tayshaun Prince. come playoff time he always outdoes/outdid his season averages.

 

That being said..Horry does this kind of thing every so often. it looks as though this time his team will be rewarded for it and to me that is a shame.