Tauntaun Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 OK, I had a night to sleep on this one and after more time to ponder......your a whack job. Holt not Top 10 FF WR barring injury? Let's make that wager an even money $500......got huevo's as big as your boast? The older you get, injuries become more of a factor. Holt has not exactly been running at full speed the past 2 seasons. I guess that he will back to full speed next year.......I made a friendly 20 dollar bet. I am certain the odds would be much greater than 50/50 that Holt stays in the top 10, thus I would not be willing to wager $500 on it. I made a bold statement which I think has a much better chance of happening than the 1% of the people on this board. Time will tell. Trade Holt now while you can still get top 5 value for him. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 The older you get, injuries become more of a factor. Holt has not exactly been running at full speed the past 2 seasons. I guess that he will back to full speed next year.......I made a friendly 20 dollar bet. I am certain the odds would be much greater than 50/50 that Holt stays in the top 10, thus I would not be willing to wager $500 on it. I made a bold statement which I think has a much better chance of happening than the 1% of the people on this board. Time will tell. Trade Holt now while you can still get top 5 value for him. Peace. So...let me see if I understand this...you start a thread trumpeting that Torry Holt will not be a top 10 WR this year. You dig your heels in when others on this board provide objective argument stating otherwise. You then get arrogant and claim you're always right. You refuse PD's $500 bet, only to accept a $20 "friendly" wager. Now you write that Holt should be a top 10 this year? This coming from the person who is "always right?" If you're always right, why not take PD's bet and make $500? Also...why did you all of a sudden do an about-face on your "bold" statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiley Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 The older you get, injuries become more of a factor. Holt has not exactly been running at full speed the past 2 seasons. I guess that he will back to full speed next year.......I made a friendly 20 dollar bet. I am certain the odds would be much greater than 50/50 that Holt stays in the top 10, thus I would not be willing to wager $500 on it. I made a bold statement which I think has a much better chance of happening than the 1% of the people on this board. Time will tell. Trade Holt now while you can still get top 5 value for him. Peace. I don't have time to go through this thread and reread everything so I would like you to give us your Top 10 WR's this upcoming season and "why" they'll be a top ten. I would expect you to have sufficient evidence to back your statements through schedule strengths and player projections. Type away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 So...let me see if I understand this...you start a thread trumpeting that Torry Holt will not be a top 10 WR this year. You dig your heels in when others on this board provide objective argument stating otherwise. You then get arrogant and claim you're always right. You refuse PD's $500 bet, only to accept a $20 "friendly" wager. Now you write that Holt should be a top 10 this year? This coming from the person who is "always right?" If you're always right, why not take PD's bet and make $500? Also...why did you all of a sudden do an about-face on your "bold" statement? When did I say that? Obviously there is a chance that he finishes in the top 10, thus I would rather put $500 down on something else for even money. I made the points why he would not be in the top 10 this year. Only a few people offered points as to why they think he will be back to stud status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 When did I say that? Obviously there is a chance that he finishes in the top 10, thus I would rather put $500 down on something else for even money. In other words, you don't have much confidence in your prediction. I made the points why he would not be in the top 10 this year. Only a few people offered points as to why they think he will be back to stud status. Actually, several people made strong arguments as to why he would definitely be a Top 10 guy and like a (Top 5) stud this year. IIRC, their arguments were a lot stronger than yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 I don't have time to go through this thread and reread everything so I would like you to give us your Top 10 WR's this upcoming season and "why" they'll be a top ten. I would expect you to have sufficient evidence to back your statements through schedule strengths and player projections. Type away. I do not want to write about 10 guys as to why I think they will do better than Holt this year. I just think that Holt is going to have a down year, maybe get injured again? Who knows. I will take any of these guys this year over Holt (in no particular order): Chad Johnson Steve Smith Larry Fitzgerald Reggie Wayne Marvin Harrison Terrell Owens Randy Moss Donald Driver Andre Johnson Anquan Boldin these guys certainly have the potential: Colston R Williams Walker Evans I know, I am an idiot for saying I would take Moss or A Johnson over Holt given their histories. Again, from a fantasy perspective Holt is on a decline while Moss is in a good situation and AJ will finally break out over a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) I do not want to write about 10 guys as to why I think they will do better than Holt this year. I just think that Holt is going to have a down year, maybe get injured again? Who knows. I will take any of these guys this year over Holt (in no particular order): Chad Johnson Steve Smith Larry Fitzgerald Reggie Wayne Marvin Harrison Terrell Owens Randy Moss Donald Driver Andre Johnson Anquan Boldin these guys certainly have the potential: Colston R Williams Walker Evans I know, I am an idiot for saying I would take Moss or A Johnson over Holt given their histories. Again, from a fantasy perspective Holt is on a decline while Moss is in a good situation and AJ will finally break out over a full season. All in there 30's. All have been injured before with the exception of Harrison. Why does Holt have injury questions and not these guys? Edited May 21, 2007 by piratesownninjas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I do not want to write about 10 guys as to why I think they will do better than Holt this year. I just think that Holt is going to have a down year, maybe get injured again? Who knows. I will take any of these guys this year over Holt (in no particular order): Chad Johnson Steve Smith Larry Fitzgerald Reggie Wayne Marvin Harrison Terrell Owens Randy Moss Donald Driver Andre Johnson Anquan Boldin these guys certainly have the potential: Colston R Williams Walker Evans I know, I am an idiot for saying I would take Moss or A Johnson over Holt given their histories. Again, from a fantasy perspective Holt is on a decline while Moss is in a good situation and AJ will finally break out over a full season. All of these guys are under 30 and have injury concerns as well. Just pointing out the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 In other words, you don't have much confidence in your prediction. Actually, several people made strong arguments as to why he would definitely be a Top 10 guy and like a (Top 5) stud this year. IIRC, their arguments were a lot stronger than yours. OK, I do not have a crystal ball so sure he could finish in the top 5 or 3. Last year he finished 9th in our scoring which I think is the best you will see from him going forward. I have not seen any insight as to why he will be a stud again other than opinion. If you think that Linehan will not use SJax like he did last year, the Rams line got better, Bulger will stay off his back, Holt will get faster, etc please give me reasons why. Otherwise, it is ok to assume that Holt's numbers will continue to decline like they have over the past 4 seasons. The greatest show on turf days are over....thus Holt finally falls out of the top 10. Sorry for upsetting you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 All in there 30's. All have been injured before with the exception of Harrison. Why does Holt have injury questions and not these guys? They certainly have injury questions about them as well. This post is not totally based on the fact that Holt has been banged up. That is just one concern, the biggest being the new offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 The greatest show on turf days are over....thus Holt finally falls out of the top 10. Sorry for upsetting you. LOL, they haven't been the "Greatest Show on Turf" since 2001. You're a full six years late on that one! Sorry for upsetting you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 OK, I do not have a crystal ball so sure he could finish in the top 5 or 3. Last year he finished 9th in our scoring which I think is the best you will see from him going forward. I have not seen any insight as to why he will be a stud again other than opinion. If you think that Linehan will not use SJax like he did last year, the Rams line got better, Bulger will stay off his back, Holt will get faster, etc please give me reasons why. Otherwise, it is ok to assume that Holt's numbers will continue to decline like they have over the past 4 seasons. The greatest show on turf days are over....thus Holt finally falls out of the top 10. Sorry for upsetting you. I've heard Linehan say he doesnt want Jackson getting that many touches in a season again... There is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I've heard Linehan say he doesnt want Jackson getting that many touches in a season again... There is one. Hence the drafting of Leonard who excels in the passing game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 OK, I do not have a crystal ball so sure he could finish in the top 5 or 3. Last year he finished 9th in our scoring which I think is the best you will see from him going forward. I have not seen any insight as to why he will be a stud again other than opinion. If you think that Linehan will not use SJax like he did last year, the Rams line got better, Bulger will stay off his back, Holt will get faster, etc please give me reasons why. Otherwise, it is ok to assume that Holt's numbers will continue to decline like they have over the past 4 seasons. The greatest show on turf days are over....thus Holt finally falls out of the top 10. Sorry for upsetting you. Holt's decline- 02 91 for 1302 03 117 for 1696 04 94 for 1372 05 102 for 1331 06 93 for 1188 Rather than declining it looks like he had one up year and last year declined slightly. Rather than a trend it looks more like a down year with a hurt QB and new head coach. I see nothing to say it is a trend that will continue. "When you find yourself in a hole stop digging" Bill Clinton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Hence the drafting of Leonard who excels in the passing game. Thank you. Exactly. More looks away from Holt. This was one of my points which in which everyone thus far said it will have no impact. Just face it, everyone posting is a Holt owner and fails to see this trend of a decline in production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Obviously it is very easy to say that Holt will be in the top 10 this coming year. I made a few points which are potential concerns. I guess all we can do now is wait and see. At the very least, I think he will get drafted much higher this year for what you will get out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) Holt's decline- 02 91 for 1302 03 117 for 1696 04 94 for 1372 05 102 for 1331 06 93 for 1188 Rather than declining it looks like he had one up year and last year declined slightly. Rather than a trend it looks more like a down year with a hurt QB and new head coach. I see nothing to say it is a trend that will continue. "When you find yourself in a hole stop digging" Bill Clinton Good point but from a fantasy points perspective he has declined over 4 years.....although when you are #1 or #2 all you can do is decline. As I said before, I like Holt and I think he is a top notch WR. I think everyone is to say there is no chance he finishes out of the top 10. There are more issues surrounding him than every before. Shoot me. Edited May 22, 2007 by Tauntaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) Thank you. Exactly. More looks away from Holt. This was one of my points which in which everyone thus far said it will have no impact. Just face it, everyone posting is a Holt owner and fails to see this trend of a decline in production. Ummm....Leonard will eat into SJax's receptions...not Holt's. And where are your numbers? You've stated that his production is in decline, yet offer no data to support this claim (geez, do I sound like BB or what here...). When Randall offers the data, your tune changes to the decline is in "fantasy points." So...go ahead...show the numbers. I'm all for hearing the argument is it has evidentiary support. One more thing...the only chance Holt finishes out of the top 10 is if he or his QB gets hurt. That's it. And that can happen to any receiver. If both stay healthy, I have a membership bet for next season that Holt is top 10. Edited May 22, 2007 by The Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Ummm....Leonard will eat into SJax's receptions...not Holt's. Is it fair to say that SJax's receptions ate into Holt's last year? Thus, Leonard + SJax rec in '07 are greater than or equal to SJax rec in '06 Therefore, Leonard will have an impact on Holt's numbers in '07. Q.E.D. When Bulger has time to take 3 steps and dump off, it is fair to say that will impact Holt. If he does stay in the pocket again, it will be a long season with him throwing with another jacked up shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauntaun Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Ummm....Leonard will eat into SJax's receptions...not Holt's. And where are your numbers? You've stated that his production is in decline, yet offer no data to support this claim (geez, do I sound like BB or what here...). When Randall offers the data, your tune changes to the decline is in "fantasy points." So...go ahead...show the numbers. I'm all for hearing the argument is it has evidentiary support. One more thing...the only chance Holt finishes out of the top 10 is if he or his QB gets hurt. That's it. And that can happen to any receiver. If both stay healthy, I have a membership bet for next season that Holt is top 10. I apologize, I have been talking about fantasy points all along. I did not make that clear although I did point out his decline in fantasy points a few times. Seems that both of them are hurt every year over the past 2 or 3 seasons, so that is a factor. Is it fair to say that any QB can get hurt but then compare Manning and David Carr? I will take my chances that a team with a mediocre OL and a QB that is contstantly picking himself off the turf has a better chance of getting hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Thank you. Exactly. More looks away from Holt. This was one of my points which in which everyone thus far said it will have no impact. Just face it, everyone posting is a Holt owner and fails to see this trend of a decline in production. Wasn't my point, Seahawks37... errr... Tauntaun. Brian Leonard is a fullback/halfback who will see dump passes, not slants and posts and deep balls like Holt. Apples and oranges, fella. My point about Leonard was more related to S-Jax. If anything, the possible emergence of Leonard in the short passing game will only make things better for Holt and the rest of the WRs and TE. Hi, I'm Tauntaun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Hi, I'm Tauntaun... That was the absolute perfect cartoon for this situation...gotta love Google! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Wasn't my point, Seahawks37... errr... Tauntaun. Brian Leonard is a fullback/halfback who will see dump passes, not slants and posts and deep balls like Holt. Apples and oranges, fella. My point about Leonard was more related to S-Jax. If anything, the possible emergence of Leonard in the short passing game will only make things better for Holt and the rest of the WRs and TE. Hi, I'm Tauntaun... Thanks for saving me the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Hmmm.....methinks this smells of MPluera Who is TT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Wow..... I'll let you know that Tauntaun is not an alias, and is actually a friend of mine who is also in one both my leagues. He is an absolute fantasy football junkie, to the same level that most of us are, and he has been the most dominant team in our longest running home league. Because of that, he gets extremely annoying and cocky, like the "I'm right more than I'm wrong" post. All that said, I think some are being a little rough on him here. He came out and made a statement that he admitted was bold. It would be quite boring to post things that everyone agrees with, such as "LT will be a top 5 back this year" I know he is just getting the typical newbie hazing, which he definitely deserved with his cocky comments, but, I can vouch that he is a good guy that definitely knows his football. I think he will be proven completely wrong in this case, and he is letting a trade he made sway his opinion, but, it is just that, an opinion. We shall see how it all turns out. I'll guarantee you this, if he is right, he will definitely be here to boast, and if he is wrong, I'll be the first one to bring this up and rip him. I'm my vouching for him doesn't mean a lot to many of you, but, I just wanted to clarify that this isn't an alias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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