broncosn05

Frank Gore

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The contract Turner is going to get is going to be huge. So the Chargers can slap the franchise tag on him next year and still trade him without penalty.

Seeing as only four teams utilized this option this year, I highly doubt this would happen. He'll be a UFA next year, go somewhere, produce, and the Chargers will get a third round pick from it.

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Slim?

 

You can possibly get Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown,Clinton Portis and a number of others there.

 

IMO as much as people are talking about the 2 back rotations this year I think this draft is deeper than last years for RB's.

 

To me..there is a top 1 this year instead of a top 3. then a bunch of guys who are pretty much even.

Yeah slim.

 

Rudi - Irons and Perry and loss of Steinbach

Ronnie - Lorenzo Booker and no QB. We'll see if Cameron can make him LT.

Portis - MUST handcuff to Betts. Risk/Reward is an interesting topic.

 

If you're going to talk about picking late in this draft you have to talk about the simplicity of getting two quality backs. But in a 10 team that wouldn't be too hard even if you had an early pick. Then again I don't know how many teams are in your league.

 

If you are suggesting that the numbers from 2-10 are going to be even close to similar though I think you're wrong.

Edited by broncosn05

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Yeah slim.

 

Rudi - Irons and Perry and loss of Steinbach

Ronnie - Lorenzo Booker and no QB. We'll see if Cameron can make him LT.

Portis - MUST handcuff to Betts. Risk/Reward is an interesting topic.

 

If you're going to talk about picking late in this draft you have to talk about the simplicity of getting two quality backs. But in a 10 team that wouldn't be too hard even if you had an early pick. Then again I don't know how many teams are in your league.

 

If you are suggesting that the numbers from 2-10 are going to be even close to similar though I think you're wrong.

Rudi Johnson has worn down at the end of each season for a while now. You know he's going to get you about 1400 yards total and 9 touchdowns tops. A lot of wear and tear mixed with the loss of steinbach. Im not high on Rudi.

 

Ronnie Brown I am high on. Lorenzo Booker wasnt even that great in college. I see him more as a third down back... Nothing more.

 

I think Portis is a top ten back... Still. As i've stated numourous times he is a top three rb in terms of talent. He was putting up points last year before he got hurt, and before that he was a top 3 in scoring. I think people are over-valueing Betts at this point. Sure, Betts put up a nice average, but were teams really concerned about the redskins running when they were already out of the game? Furthermore, in Betts 250 carries, he scored 4 times. I just don't buy Betts taking a huge roll. I still see it as a 3-1 share.

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Yeah slim.

 

Rudi - Irons and Perry and loss of Steinbach

Ronnie - Lorenzo Booker and no QB. We'll see if Cameron can make him LT.

Portis - MUST handcuff to Betts. Risk/Reward is an interesting topic.

 

If you're going to talk about picking late in this draft you have to talk about the simplicity of getting two quality backs. But in a 10 team that wouldn't be too hard even if you had an early pick. Then again I don't know how many teams are in your league.

 

If you are suggesting that the numbers from 2-10 are going to be even close to similar though I think you're wrong.

 

Dude..if myou want to point out backups we can be here all day. I mean that Michael Turner is a pretty good back running behind Tomlinson is he not?

 

And who says you need a great QB to have a good running game? I seen Baltimore run the crap out of the ball without a good passing game all the way to a superbowl.

 

And we do disagree because I think the value from 2 through 14 is very close.

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Rudi Johnson has worn down at the end of each season for a while now. You know he's going to get you about 1400 yards total and 9 touchdowns tops. A lot of wear and tear mixed with the loss of steinbach. Im not high on Rudi.

 

Ronnie Brown I am high on. Lorenzo Booker wasnt even that great in college. I see him more as a third down back... Nothing more.

 

I think Portis is a top ten back... Still. As i've stated numourous times he is a top three rb in terms of talent. He was putting up points last year before he got hurt, and before that he was a top 3 in scoring. I think people are over-valueing Betts at this point. Sure, Betts put up a nice average, but were teams really concerned about the redskins running when they were already out of the game? Furthermore, in Betts 250 carries, he scored 4 times. I just don't buy Betts taking a huge roll. I still see it as a 3-1 share.

I'm not questioning where they'll be drafted I'm questioning their production against that of Gore.

 

I completely disagree with your wearing down of Rudi at the end of seasons... Keep to my arguments.

 

Yeah but what did Ronnie do last year...

 

You must not have watched Betts play... He's good. I agree Portis is one of the most talented in the league and I don't think he'll get injured this year as long as he stops arm tackling. He is a Top 10 back but I think Gore's production will FAR exceed Portis'.

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I'm not questioning where they'll be drafted I'm questioning their production against that of Gore.

 

I completely disagree with your wearing down of Rudi at the end of seasons... Keep to my arguments.

 

Yeah but what did Ronnie do last year...

 

You must not have watched Betts play... He's good. I agree Portis is one of the most talented in the league and I don't think he'll get injured this year as long as he stops arm tackling. He is a Top 10 back but I think Gore's production will FAR exceed Portis'.

You can disagree with me on Rudi Johnson wearing down, but I saw it as an owner of his last year.

 

Ronnie Brown was dinged up all season and had a moran running the team.

 

I did watch Betts play... If he's as good as everyone says why does he he score a touchdown for every 62 carries?

 

We can argue opinions, but numbers are numbers.

 

Yes, Gore will outscore all of them though.

Edited by piratesownninjas

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You can disagree with me on Rudi Johnson wearing down, but I saw it as an owner of his last year.

 

Ronnie Brown was dinged up all season and had a moran running the team.

 

I did watch Betts play... If he's as good as everyone says why does he he score a touchdown for every 62 carries?

 

We can argue opinions, but numbers are numbers.

 

Yes, Gore will outscore all of them though.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094/gamelogs/2006

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094/gamelogs/2005

 

Yeah we're just arguing opinions. And since mine is the right one let's just leave it at that.

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If Chris Perry had been healthy last year Johnson would have lost a lot more touches. Lewis seems intent on helping him out by taking Irons. Between Irons and Perry they are bound to have a healthy backup and push Johnson under 300 carries. If Rudi does not get 300 carries he is not worth a first. He gives no cheap points in the passing game.

 

Ronnie Brown has produced any time he has had 20 carries. His problem is his team has sucked ass and I am not sure that will change much this year.

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If Chris Perry had been healthy last year Johnson would have lost a lot more touches. Lewis seems intent on helping him out by taking Irons. Between Irons and Perry they are bound to have a healthy backup and push Johnson under 300 carries. If Rudi does not get 300 carries he is not worth a first. He gives no cheap points in the passing game.

 

Ronnie Brown has produced any time he has had 20 carries. His problem is his team has sucked ass and I am not sure that will change much this year.

 

 

 

What I like so much about Ronnie Brown is he is a very capable receiver out of the backfield. RB's who catch the ball well are much more consistant IMO and I expect to see Browns catch totals go up this year.I can see the Miami offense revolving around him this year.

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What I said in my first post is that there is no way that you hold Michael Turner with the trade offers they had to have been getting to keep him at the level he was used at before.

 

Like michaelredd pointed out, the Chargers kept their options open by giving Turner a 1 year raise now. If LT goes down they can either choose to give Turner a long term contract after the season or exclusively franchise him. Even if LT is still going strong after this year, they'll be compensated very handsomely if they tag Turner non-exclusive.

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Whats the response on Betts?

 

If you take the six games he started and keep him at that level for the whole season his stats would read -

 

2069 rushing yards

8 rush TDs

8 fumbles

 

48 receptions

442 receiving yards

3 receiving TDs

 

That's pretty damn good.

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If you take the six games he started and keep him at that level for the whole season his stats would read -

 

2069 rushing yards

8 rush TDs

8 fumbles

 

48 receptions

442 receiving yards

3 receiving TDs

 

That's pretty damn good.

 

 

Thats not a realistic approach. You act like he didnt carry the ball in the games he didnt start... He was used heavily before Portis was injured. He had a phenominal month in December, which is where all of his numbers came from.

week 13-Washington lost

week 14-Washington lost

week 15-Washington wins

week 16-Washington lost

week 17-Washington lost

 

My point is, its Washington. I think teams were allowing them to run and focusing on shutting down the pass. Why run when you're behind all the time?

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After reading all this though I have solidified my thoughts that pickin last in this years draft is a great place to be picking.

 

 

 

Eh it's pretty slim back there. Seems like the Top 3 from last year has spread to more of a Top 6.

 

 

 

Slim?

 

You can possibly get Rudi Johnson, Ronnie Brown,Clinton Portis and a number of others there.

 

IMO as much as people are talking about the 2 back rotations this year I think this draft is deeper than last years for RB's.

 

To me..there is a top 1 this year instead of a top 3. then a bunch of guys who are pretty much even.

 

 

 

Yeah slim.

 

Rudi - Irons and Perry and loss of Steinbach

Ronnie - Lorenzo Booker and no QB. We'll see if Cameron can make him LT.

Portis - MUST handcuff to Betts. Risk/Reward is an interesting topic.

 

If you're going to talk about picking late in this draft you have to talk about the simplicity of getting two quality backs. But in a 10 team that wouldn't be too hard even if you had an early pick. Then again I don't know how many teams are in your league.

 

If you are suggesting that the numbers from 2-10 are going to be even close to similar though I think you're wrong.

 

 

 

Dude..if myou want to point out backups we can be here all day. I mean that Michael Turner is a pretty good back running behind Tomlinson is he not?

 

And who says you need a great QB to have a good running game? I seen Baltimore run the crap out of the ball without a good passing game all the way to a superbowl.

 

And we do disagree because I think the value from 2 through 14 is very close.

 

 

Well after reading through this thread and seeing this, it gave me another reason for thinking about how much fun my League/Draft are going to be. :D

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Rudi - Irons and Perry and loss of Steinbach

 

Rudi Johnson has worn down at the end of each season for a while now. You know he's going to get you about 1400 yards total and 9 touchdowns tops. A lot of wear and tear mixed with the loss of steinbach. Im not high on Rudi.

 

If Chris Perry had been healthy last year Johnson would have lost a lot more touches. Lewis seems intent on helping him out by taking Irons. Between Irons and Perry they are bound to have a healthy backup and push Johnson under 300 carries. If Rudi does not get 300 carries he is not worth a first. He gives no cheap points in the passing game.

 

The bolded statements are wrong, here's why:

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094

 

 

Since Rudi became a starter 3 years ago, he has not missed a start, nor gotten less than 12 TDs rushing each year.

 

Note that even with Perry hurt, he got only 4 more carries from the year before and matched his receptions. Kenny Watson took most of Perry's work when he wasn't around last year, not Rudi. Also, Perry (Bengal homers back me up on this) is hurt pretty bad and is a question to make the team. Irons was drafted to hedge Perry's status and push Kenny Watson NOT to take carries from Rudi.

 

Also, here are Rudi's stats "down the stretch"

 

Wk-Att-Yards-TD-Rec-Yd

10: 18-85-1/1-4

11: 27-111/1-7

12: 25-64-1/1-

13: 16-47-0/2-17

14: 30-117-2/1-5

15: 22-79-1/2-17

16: 30-129-1/2-11

 

So in his last 7 starts he score 6 TD and has 3 100+ yard games, and with the exception of leaving early (hurt) with an injury has respectable showing in the other games he didn't get to 100 yards, including scoring in those 3 games.

 

 

Bottom line is Rudi is NOT a sexy super stud RB =who's going to push for 20 TDs in this day and age. His ceiling is well established and is both higher than most AND consistent. Even with the loss of Steinbach I have to think a healthier and more experienced Palmer still keeps D's honest against the pass. Rudi prolly isn't worth higher than the 6th pick, but if he slides even to 9 he's n outright steal. Last year there were a lot of believers that Brown would be a better choice than Rudi. Well, people are thinking that again, and Miami appears to be is as much of a mess as last year.

 

It's amazing how people forget to look up stats!

Edited by Pope Flick

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The bolded statements are wrong, here's why:

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094

Since Rudi became a starter 3 years ago, he has not missed a start, nor gotten less than 12 TDs rushing each year.

 

Note that even with Perry hurt, he got only 4 more carries from the year before and matched his receptions. Kenny Watson took most of Perry's work when he wasn't around last year, not Rudi. Also, Perry (Bengal homers back me up on this) is hurt pretty bad and is a question to make the team. Irons was drafted to hedge Perry's status and push Kenny Watson NOT to take carries from Rudi.

 

Also, here are Rudi's stats "down the stretch"

 

Wk-Att-Yards-TD-Rec-Yd

10: 18-85-1/1-4

11: 27-111/1-7

12: 25-64-1/1-

13: 16-47-0/2-17

14: 30-117-2/1-5

15: 22-79-1/2-17

16: 30-129-1/2-11

 

So in his last 7 starts he score 6 TD and has 3 100+ yard games, and with the exception of leaving early (hurt) with an injury has respectable showing in the other games he didn't get to 100 yards, including scoring in those 3 games.

Bottom line is Rudi is NOT a sexy super stud RB =who's going to push for 20 TDs in this day and age. His ceiling is well established and is both higher than most AND consistent. Even with the loss of Steinbach I have to think a healthier and more experienced Palmer still keeps D's honest against the pass. Rudi prolly isn't worth higher than the 6th pick, but if he slides even to 9 he's n outright steal. Last year there were a lot of believers that Brown would be a better choice than Rudi. Well, people are thinking that again, and Miami appears to be is as much of a mess as last year.

 

It's amazing how people forget to look up stats!

 

Down the stretch of the fantasy season he was horrid...

The month of November is a make or break time of year for a lot of fantasy owners... During those 5 weeks of action he put up 385 yards and 3 tds along with an average of 3.7 a carry.

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Down the stretch of the fantasy season he was horrid...

The month of November is a make or break time of year for a lot of fantasy owners... During those 5 weeks of action he put up 385 yards and 3 tds along with an average of 3.7 a carry.

 

 

 

And he was on his way to putting up stats that were nearly identical to the past 2 years. You have to temper expectations with reality. The league I had him in I won the whole damn thing so he did me just fine.

 

I'll stand by his overall performance on the last 7 weeks. Overall very solid. You want to cherry pick to sound right - there weren't even 5 Sundays last November. :D:tup: Again, you know what you get with Rudi and it's well past respectable but far short of LT production. What RBs went truly off during the 5 weeks of November that didn't exist? :D

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2005-4.3 YPC

2006-3.8 YPC

 

Yeah you must be right. He only lost a half a yard per carry last year. That could not possibly be because he is wearing down.

 

And when your last 6 games have these stellar yards per carry, you are probably getting better down the stretch right?...

2.6

2.9

3.9

3.6

4.3

3.6

 

There's your stats.

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2005-4.3 YPC

2006-3.8 YPC

 

Yeah you must be right. He only lost a half a yard per carry last year. That could not possibly be because he is wearing down.

 

And when your last 6 games have these stellar yards per carry, you are probably getting better down the stretch right?...

2.6

2.9

3.9

3.6

4.3

3.6

 

There's your stats.

 

 

 

Wow. You play in a league that scores YPC, not full game rushing totals.

 

Interesting. :D

 

6 TD's in the final 7 fantasy weeks. Those are good stats too. :D

 

Again, who put up better numbers during that stretch? Guys ranked ahead of him, right?

 

He's a top 6-10 pick this year. That's a no-brainer. How hard is that to understand?

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If I had the #1 in a draft I'd probably take Gore.

 

But with the ability to pass the ball Gore should get more downs and carries and Nolan made no effort to turn his system into an RBBC like SD and STL did. The line scares me for LJ and though I do agree that Alexander seems like a steal this year I like Gore much better.

 

 

Agreed, and I think anyone who takes a RB who was at best the 4th/5th RB in FF last year for 1 year running over a RB who has been a top 1/2 FF RB 5 years running is certifiable. If I'm putting anyone ahead of LT, he'd damn well better have shown that he can be a top 3 RB for at least 3 years in a row right now.

 

 

 

 

If you have the #1 and don't trade down you're a fool. Last year many took SA, but LT was the smart play.

 

Trade down 2 spots and get Gore and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

Don't forget they have a new OC and LT plays for a better team.

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Well after reading through this thread and seeing this, it gave me another reason for thinking about how much fun my League/Draft are going to be. :D

 

 

 

Should be big fun Irish. I am looking forward to it.

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If you have the #1 and don't trade down you're a fool. Last year many took SA, but LT was the smart play.

 

Trade down 2 spots and get Gore and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

Don't forget they have a new OC and LT plays for a better team.

 

Randall I would completely agree. I'm just saying on my list of RBs and where he'll be in FP next year.

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Just for S&Gs, but does anyone remember the talk after 4-5 weeks into last season that LT may be slowing down, lost a step and the wear and tear has probably started getting the best of him?

 

:D

 

If I'm the Chargers, I use Turner next year whenever possible. Keep LT off the field if the game is safely in hand. Keep LT fresh and healthy.

 

This more than anything in my mind keeps him fresher for 2008. I don't know, but I agree than you could see touches and yardage on the ground go down for LT this year, but you could see an increase in the passing game with Turner pounding away at the middle.

 

It will be a scary offense and fun to watch. I can't wait! :tup::D

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