Sportsmanship Dilemma

[Menudo]

Acknowledged hijacking of my own thread, but I have to say: is a kicker really a football player? Oh well, good for him getting a scholarship.

 

Isn't that like calling the drummer in a band a 'musician'??

 

In every instance in history that a football kicker got into a fight with a soccer player, the football kicker won easily. That is a fact.

[Azazello1313]

#4. after the game, tell the blue the ball was on the ground and he needs to improve his positioning.

 

agreed.

[chiefjay]

 

It was definitely a joke, though I do find soccer to be a pansy sport that makes me go : ..........

 

any time, any place

[Menudo]

any time, any place

 

 

Will you pay my airfare ?

[chiefjay]

Will you pay my airfare ?

 

 

We can meet halfway up the turnpike, say Lorain, KevinL can ref.

[Ursa Majoris]

As a soccer ref, now 1 year retired but with 20 years experience, I can tell you two things:

 

1. The number one reason kids don't continue reffing is the constant heckling, criticism and argument from adults who should know better and are wrong nearly all the time anyway.

2. If there's no ref / ump, there's no game. I found it effective one day (after only 3 minutes) to walk over to a heckling idiot, place the whistle in his hand and walk toward my car. The attitude changed immediately and the game concluded in peace. Won't work for everyone but beware driving officials away - they are volunteers.

 

BTW, #4 is correct (after game chat about decision) but even that has to be conducted very carefully. I used to mentor young refs and many times had to step in when some idiot coach / parent tried to bully the ref after the game.

[Sam]

As a soccer ref, now 1 year retired but with 20 years experience, I can tell you two things:

 

1. The number one reason kids don't continue reffing is the constant heckling, criticism and argument from adults who should know better and are wrong nearly all the time anyway.

2. If there's no ref / ump, there's no game. I found it effective one day (after only 3 minutes) to walk over to a heckling idiot, place the whistle in his hand and walk toward my car. The attitude changed immediately and the game concluded in peace. Won't work for everyone but beware driving officials away - they are volunteers.

 

BTW, #4 is correct (after game chat about decision) but even that has to be conducted very carefully. I used to mentor young refs and many times had to step in when some idiot coach / parent tried to bully the ref after the game.

 

 

I used to ump little league games when I was in high school and quit because I got sick of all the bitching the coaches were doing. I can put up with a some minor complaining but it was all game long every game. I finally told them to find someone else to do it.

[Missoula Griz]

I think you probably went a little to far. I have been in your shoes before, and it sounds as if we acted similar. In retrospect, I wish I would of held back my emotions better.

 

I have coached baseball for years. The first child is always the hardest when it comes to sports. You tend to put more pressure on them and your learning curve as a coach has a long way to go.

 

I am much more reserved with my 2nd child, but honestly, I still push my older too hard. At least your there supporting your children. We are all far from perfect.

[untateve]

I have been a coach for 20 years. I refereed soccer for about 5 but it stopped being worth it.

 

In youth sports, most of the time, the refs are teens/beginners. Even when they are not, I always choose option one. Refs don't go out there thinking, "how can I fk this team over?" or "How many bad calls can I make?"

 

I find that coaches/parents who question ref's calls likely have never been a ref before.

 

I would not have questioned the call and accepted it quietly. That's how I coach. In the beginning of the season, I have a "parents' meeting." Among other things, I address conduct on the field. The parents are told that the only time they should be speaking to a referee is after the game and that is only to thank him/her for their effort. I also tell them that if this will be a problem for them, they need to move their child to another team. I tell the parents that not only should they not be surprised when a ref blows a call, they should expect it. I tell them that without any doubt, it will happen. I let the parents know that when I coach a perfect game and the kids play a perfect game, then we can start expecting the ref to call a perfect game.

[Azazello1313]

you shoulda popped that ump in the grill

[Menudo]

We can meet halfway up the turnpike, say Lorain, KevinL can ref.

 

 

I'm not sure if he'll be able to get in proper position to see your cheap shots.

[Missoula Griz]

I have been a coach for 20 years. I refereed soccer for about 5 but it stopped being worth it.

 

In youth sports, most of the time, the refs are teens/beginners. Even when they are not, I always choose option one. Refs don't go out there thinking, "how can I fk this team over?" or "How many bad calls can I make?"

 

I find that coaches/parents who question ref's calls likely have never been a ref before.

 

I would not have questioned the call and accepted it quietly. That's how I coach. In the beginning of the season, I have a "parents' meeting." Among other things, I address conduct on the field. The parents are told that the only time they should be speaking to a referee is after the game and that is only to thank him/her for their effort. I also tell them that if this will be a problem for them, they need to move their child to another team. I tell the parents that not only should they not be surprised when a ref blows a call, they should expect it. I tell them that without any doubt, it will happen. I let the parents know that when I coach a perfect game and the kids play a perfect game, then we can start expecting the ref to call a perfect game.

 

 

 

Very good policy. I have a similar meeting with the parents, but I also let them know I am not a day care provider and if their child is running laps or doing push ups its because they were goofing around and not listening. I never punish for an error, but I cannot put up with children who do not want to be there.

[The Holy Roller]

I've coached for 18 years and refed 10 years. You chose a good option but not the best option. Saying "Good game, blue," and walking away will show your kids that respect is ALWAYS the way to handle these situations. Any criticism or teaching you'd like to do for a young official should always be done away from your young kids. As an official I was much more likely to explain a call or at least listen to a coach who has shown me that he repsects what I'm trying to do. Unt is correct in saying that the refs don't show up with a "how can I screw up this team" attitude on their minds. They're humans who will make mistakes and at the age level you're dealing with the sportsmanship aspect of the game is as important to teach as any skill.

 

I always told our kids that if we needed the ref to make a call to win a game for us we put ourselves into a bad spot. We needed to work harder and practice more so that our games wouldn't come down to a situation where our fate was in the hands of the officials.

 

But if you get to coach the in the majors then I say you should get your money's worth everytime. Everyone likes to see a show.

[Coffeeman]

I never punish for an error, but I cannot put up with children who do not want to be there.

 

 

Wow, you would've kicked off half my team then. Of the 13 kids, I'd say at least 3 of them didn't want to be there, another 4 would just pick at the dirt, with their gloves on there heads or on the ground, etc. the other 6-7 kids were actually trying.

 

We do the best we can to wrangle/prod/encourage them all just enough without making them cry. Luckily, my kid is one of the kids trying hard all the time, and he's got skills.

 

I feel sorry for those kids who actually cheer when they get put on the bench....

[chiefjay]

I'm not sure if he'll be able to get in proper position to see your cheap shots.

 

 

If you not cheating your not trying.

[Missoula Griz]

Wow, you would've kicked off half my team then. Of the 13 kids, I'd say at least 3 of them didn't want to be there, another 4 would just pick at the dirt, with their gloves on there heads or on the ground, etc. the other 6-7 kids were actually trying.

 

We do the best we can to wrangle/prod/encourage them all just enough without making them cry. Luckily, my kid is one of the kids trying hard all the time, and he's got skills.

 

I feel sorry for those kids who actually cheer when they get put on the bench....

 

 

 

I was speaking more about the 11-12 year old team I coach in baseball. At that age, you can expect more of an effort. In the case of my 7-8 year old team, its all about the treats after the game. Sometimes its difficult bouncing back and forth between those age groups.

 

I seldom make the 7-8 year olds run. I will tell them to go sit with their parents in the bleachers if they wont listen. I get a lot of parents who get pissed off at me initially. But when their child begins to listen more on the field and at home, they start to applaud my tough love coaching style. And for the most part, the kids all like me because I give them exactly what they give me. I give them way more positives then negatives.

[AtomicCEO]

I think I would go for option (what are we on) #6?

 

Instead of appealing to the Ump who clearly didn't know the truth... appeal to the kid who definitely knows the truth, the first baseman.

 

Ask him "Was the ball in your glove?"

 

If he lies... remind him to think about how he cheated your team out of the playoffs for the rest of his life when he thinks about little league. That'll screw that kid up good if he has any conscience.

 

"When you are 30 years old looking back on your little league playoffs, remember that you got there not because you can catch the ball... because you can't (cough loser), but because you're a liar and a cheat. Better get that glove fixed for the next game, Nomar."

 

Then spit on him. (optional)

Edited May 23, 2007 by AtomicCEO

[Menudo]

I think I would go for option (what are we on) #6?

 

Instead of appealing to the Ump who clearly didn't know the truth... appeal to the kid who definitely knows the truth, the first baseman.

 

Ask him "Was the ball in your glove?"

 

If he lies... remind him to think about how he cheated your team out of the playoffs for the rest of his life when he thinks about little league. That'll screw that kid up good if he has any conscience.

 

"When you are 30 years old looking back on your little league playoffs, remember that you got there not because you can catch the ball... because you can't (cough loser), but because you're a liar and a cheat. Better get that glove fixed for the next game, Nomar."

 

Then spit on him. (optional)

 

 

You are a funny dude. I seriously have tears in my eyes from laughing at this post.

[Mazerom]

Are there two umpires for this game? Did the field ump make the bad call? From my experience, if the field ump makes a terrible call then the plate ump can reverse the call. That's only if they were paying attention and realized the ball was trapped and not actually within the players glove. That's always a hard way to end a season.

[T-Scorp]

I have coached little league for 15 years and have mellowed out over the years. I would still probably gone with option 2. Walking away with out a mention of the clear facts cheats everyone, the ump included.

 

I would have incorporated option 6 by telling him to ask the first baseman...I have done this in the past and most young players are honest. Of course I know most of the umps because I have coached or coached against them so Iwould not be very hard on them.

 

Glad to hear the kids were quicky over the loss, most of the time the parents/coaches take losses harder.

 

 

As for soccer, my daughter (7) has played for the the last two seasons and this year scored her first two goals in the same game. I am not a fan of soccer at all but I was one proud poppa!!!

 

Menudo.....I am planning on starting my 3 year old son in soccer so he can perfect his kicking skills and become a kicker in the NFL. (Not my retirement plan but you never know!!!!)

[T-Scorp]

Acknowledged hijacking of my own thread, but I have to say: is a kicker really a football player? Oh well, good for him getting a scholarship.

 

Isn't that like calling the drummer in a band a 'musician'??

 

 

 

As opposed to a lead singer??? Try coordinating 4 limbs all doing something different at the same time….. not as easy at it looks!!!

 

 

Ask any NE fan is a kicker is a football player....they owe two of their 3 superbowl rings to a kicker!

Edited May 23, 2007 by T-Scorp

[SuperBalla]

The umpire should have asked to see the ball...when the player was not able to pick up the ball the runner should have been declared safe. I'd have done the same thing though.

Edited May 23, 2007 by SuperBalla

[AtomicCEO]

Try coordinating 4 limbs all doing something different at the same time….. not as easy at it looks!!!

 

 

Neither is juggling or flying a plane... but that doesn't make it musical.

 

Thump thump thump. Oooh... love that melody.

[untateve]

Try coordinating 4 limbs all doing something different at the same time….. not as easy at it looks!!!

 

 

That's the same thing I said to my wife but the situation was a little different. And sadly, she's rarely a good sport.

[Robash]

I umpire slow pitch softball... had a similar situation to this last tuesday. third basemen made a poor through and first caught it off the bounce with the glove 1 inch off the ground and palm down...the ball beat the runner so i told the first baseman to raise his hand, saw the ball not drop and made the out call. Needless to say one team got pretty upset, appealed to the Plate Umpire. This guy who is certified from ASA all the way to NCAA womens fastpitch said he couldnt of made a better call. The guy was pretty level headed about it though...made his claim then went back to the dugout. I got no problems with someone Questioning a call, Unless i went against a rule though it wont change.

 

...now if i was the coach, i probably would of gotten allitle heated, but i usually know when to call it quits arguing with referees