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Coffeeman

Sportsmanship Dilemma

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You see MLB coaches do it all the time, and the umpire never changes his mind. So what's the point of them doing it? In my league, we're not supposed to argue a call, to set a good example for the parents and kids.

 

The SITCH: Last night, the 2nd tourney game in our local Little League, for my 8 y.o. son's Farm team. I'm an assistant coach, and have coached the team a couple times when the head coach was out. I'm coaching first base in the final inning, with our team down 3-1 but two guys on the corners, and 2 outs, but bottom of the order.

 

Our batter drills a grounder to third; the kid makes a good but not great throw in the dirt to the first baseman. 1stbaseman drops it, then attempts to pick it up, with his foot on the bag as our kid touches 1st. The ball is actually trapped under his glove - not actually in the glove. The ump, who view is blocked by the fielders' body, calls 'Out'. The game, and our season, is over. When the 1stbaseman picks up his glove, the ball is laying on the ground - and he quickly picks it up with his free hand.

 

The sole umpire is a teenager, and has already made a couple horrendous calls during the game, including calling one of the other team's runners safe at the plate when he was clearly out. (So in my mind, it should be a 1-run game right now, not 2.)

 

The DILEMMA: as the adult closest to the play with a clear view, with everyone looking in my direction, do I:

 

1) stoically accept the bad call in true gentlemanly fashion, thereby meekly ending my team's season? Does this mean I wasn't fighting hard enough for my team?

 

2) argue the call for a few seconds, fighting for my players' right to keep playing, but try not make a big deal if the ump disagrees? The thinking here is that I could appeal on the fact that the umpire's view was blocked; this particular ump had waivered on a few calls in the past.

 

3) freak out, jump up and down and scream at the umpire for a minute or so, before accepting the call. This obviously sets a bad example for the kids, but in the heat of the moment it could happen.

 

I chose option 2, BTW......

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I think you chose the correct option..

 

Option 1 is rolling over and playing dead..

 

Option 2 shows you are passionate about your team and if you argue the call calmly it may insure this doesnt happen as much in the future. Maybe the ump will learn to get in better position or the league officials will see they need an upgrade with the umps.

 

Option 3 would be a little over the top since the players are only 8. You want to teach sportsmanship and respect . You can show kids that it is OK for you to disagree a call and make the umps know about it (you as coach not the kids) but in an option 2 rather then option 3 way.

Edited by whomper

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Number two. Most of the time the umpires are learning too.

 

I think it is quite a different thing when you have a bunch of millionaires playing. Then number 3 is a good option.

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Thanks womp. To be fair, my reaction was probably somewhere between #2 and 3; it lasted about 30 seconds or so, and I was yelling and pointing at the ground (re: the ball), but not in his face. I knew to keep my distance, and I didn't hop up and down or throw my hat. (But I wanted to!)

 

My wife was embarrassed, and said I should've chosen #1....

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I wouldn't argue it at all. I would question it, and walk away.

 

I was coaching soccer last night (U10) and the other team was offside. I called out "Offside?" in a questioning tone. The ref, about age 14 I'm guessing, shook his head no. At the next stoppage he explained to me briefly what he saw, and I said "If that's how you saw it then good call."

 

Teaching sportsmanship, and respect for the officials, is MUCH more important at that age than winning or losing.

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Thanks womp. To be fair, my reaction was probably somewhere between #2 and 3; it lasted about 30 seconds or so, and I was yelling and pointing at the ground (re: the ball), but not in his face. I knew to keep my distance, and I didn't hop up and down or throw my hat. (But I wanted to!)

 

My wife was embarrassed, and said I should've chosen #1....

 

 

I'm assuming the call remained the same after your protest?

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Option 2 was a good chioce! I would camly ask him that since his view was obstructed if he could ask for assistance from another umpire who may have had a better view.

Option 3 is usually because maangers are trying to motivate or stick up for his overpaid players; unfortunatley this is what parents and kids see and think is acceptable behavior!

 

edited to add: ooops... didn't see that he was the sole umpire...

Edited by sundaynfl

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my coach pitch practice was rained out last night.... the kids jumped up and down and threw there hats when i called practice .

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I wouldn't argue it at all. I would question it, and walk away.

 

I was coaching soccer last night (U10) and the other team was offside. I called out "Offside?" in a questioning tone. The ref, about age 14 I'm guessing, shook his head no. At the next stoppage he explained to me briefly what he saw, and I said "If that's how you saw it then good call."

 

Teaching sportsmanship, and respect for the officials, is MUCH more important at that age than winning or losing.

 

 

I agree, but got caught up in the moment. I'll probably be coaching U10 soccer this fall also, unless I'm reffing - which I did last year for U8. (I know, ironic isn't it??) I'm not proud of it.....

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Thanks womp. To be fair, my reaction was probably somewhere between #2 and 3; it lasted about 30 seconds or so, and I was yelling and pointing at the ground (re: the ball), but not in his face. I knew to keep my distance, and I didn't hop up and down or throw my hat. (But I wanted to!)

 

My wife was embarrassed, and said I should've chosen #1....

 

 

 

Shes lucky you didnt chose option 4..Pistol whipping

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#4. after the game, tell the blue the ball was on the ground and he needs to improve his positioning.

Ev en with 1 umpire, you can make a good call at first but you have to move. I trained our umps for years and I would constantly be on them to hustle to better positions. If they didn't, no more umpiring.

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I'm assuming the call remained the same after your protest?

 

 

Yep - game over.

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#4. after the game, tell the blue the ball was on the ground and he needs to improve his positioning.

Ev en with 1 umpire, you can make a good call at first but you have to move. I trained our umps for years and I would constantly be on them to hustle to better positions. If they didn't, no more umpiring.

 

 

Good idea. Or maybe even #5 - convince the league to pay a bit more $ to have 2 umps for playoff games. They are more important, and tensions are high. My wife mentioned this on the way home. I love her..... :D

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I wouldn't argue it at all. I would question it, and walk away.

 

I was coaching soccer last night (U10) and the other team was offside. I called out "Offside?" in a questioning tone. The ref, about age 14 I'm guessing, shook his head no. At the next stoppage he explained to me briefly what he saw, and I said "If that's how you saw it then good call."

 

Teaching sportsmanship, and respect for the officials, is MUCH more important at that age than winning or losing.

 

 

Kind of weird you posted this.

 

My two younger boys play soccer in a league run by the local catholic school. No score keeping until they are in the 9-10 age group and higher of course.

 

In my 8 year old's game the ref is about 14 or so and calls the game pretty tight, free kicks for hand touching and enforces the other rules (not all the refs do). The team we are playing is pretty good, probably the best team out there. They were offsides for a while and quite frankly I'm not sure anyone but maybe a few people there even know what offsides is. I'm just a fan, helping out a little when I can but I did point out to the ref that this team was cherry picking at which time he started telling the kids to get back, told the coach this as well which then she started getting on her kids about it.

 

Good for them to learn the rules at this age for sure.

 

Coffee, I think you handled it the right way. Yelling may have been a bit much but a conversation needed to take place. Advising him of the rule, etc...

 

How was he out of position if there was just one ump? Was he calling balls and strikes behind home plate and thus would have run onto the field with what should have been a clear view of the play?

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I’d like to say that I would have chosen option #1 but knowing how I am I probably would have chosen option #2. Sometimes emotions just take over and it is almost impossible to do the rational thing. This would be like asking a basketball player to remain on the bench after just witnessing his teammate/friend get bowled-over by a guy that outweighs him by 60 lbs. But I digress….

 

Unfortunately for you this was a totally un-winnable situation because the game was over following the bad call. It’s kind of hard to put up a good argument while everyone else around you is either celebrating or packing things up to leave.

 

Chalk this one up to being human, for both you and the ump.

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I’d like to say that I would have chosen option #1 but knowing how I am I probably would have chosen option #2. Sometimes emotions just take over and it is almost impossible to do the rational thing. This would be like asking a basketball player to remain on the bench after just witnessing his teammate/friend get bowled-over by a guy that outweighs him by 60 lbs. But I digress….

 

Unfortunately for you this was a totally un-winnable situation because the game was over following the bad call. It’s kind of hard to put up a good argument while everyone else around you is either celebrating or packing things up to leave.

 

Chalk this one up to being human, for both you and the ump.

 

 

Wurd.

 

Epilogue: during our little pep talk afterwards, most of the kids were more focused on the details of the team party (swimming! hip-hop music! pizza!) to care very much about the outcome. Except my kid, who was a bit pissed. Too much like his old man....

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Just a general message to Huddlers after reading several "kids sports" posts in the tailgate:

 

:D Get your pansy son's out of their pansy soccer cleats and into some shoulder pads.

 

Soccer is for chicks and European homos :D

 

If my son tells me he wants to play Soccer, I'll tell him to pack his bags.

 

 

:tup:

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I was removed as the coach from a 3nd grade soccer game due to criticizing the referees. :D

 

I got pissed the third graders were slide-tackling and getting away with it. I justify my action by thinking I was protecting my kids.

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Just a general message to Huddlers after reading several "kids sports" posts in the tailgate:

 

:tup: Get your pansy son's out of their pansy soccer cleats and into some shoulder pads.

 

Soccer is for chicks and European homos :D

 

If my son tells me he wants to play Soccer, I'll tell him to pack his bags.

:D

 

I really hope you mean the :D in this statement. All the kids are different. My 14 year old played football for several years but in the end gave it up to focus more on hockey.

 

My 8 year old is just not a physical person and would not even considering playing football although I might mention it to him a few more times over the summer but I seriously doubt he will do it or could handle it but then again he's starting to come into his own a little bit. He would be a 2nd year freshman if he did play.

 

My 6 year will play football but can't until he is 8. He has a January birthday so he'll have to wait a few more seasons. I plan on him being the ball boy next year (08).

 

I was never a soccer player but I enjoy the sport. It's a lot like any other sports like hockey or even basketball and although not as physical it does have a physical aspect to it plus lots of running, positional play, etc... plus it keeps them in shape. No chunky kids in my house.

 

I have the boys in hockey, baseball, and basketball and like I stated above Michael will play football when he's old enough.

 

I know you weren't entirely serious but I think it's important for kids to play a few sports and see what he / she likes plus anything else like music, drama, etc...

 

As your kid(s) get older you'll see this more.

 

Stop hijacking threads. :doh::D

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You never know when pro scouts are going to be in the stands so I really believe that you need to argue long and loud. If nothing else, the scout may ask for your name as a potential big league manager.

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I got pissed the third graders were slide-tackling and getting away with it.

 

A big no no for sure. I just learned that rule last week after I cheered a good slide tackle. I thought you could do it if you got part of the ball. :D

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I really hope you mean the :D in this statement. All the kids are different. My 14 year old played football for several years but in the end gave it up to focus more on hockey.

 

My 8 year old is just not a physical person and would not even considering playing football although I might mention it to him a few more times over the summer but I seriously doubt he will do it or could handle it but then again he's starting to come into his own a little bit. He would be a 2nd year freshman if he did play.

 

My 6 year will play football but can't until he is 8. He has a January birthday so he'll have to wait a few more seasons. I plan on him being the ball boy next year (08).

 

I was never a soccer player but I enjoy the sport. It's a lot like any other sports like hockey or even basketball and although not as physical it does have a physical aspect to it plus lots of running, positional play, etc... plus it keeps them in shape. No chunky kids in my house.

 

I have the boys in hockey, baseball, and basketball and like I stated above Michael will play football when he's old enough.

 

I know you weren't entirely serious but I think it's important for kids to play a few sports and see what he / she likes plus anything else like music, drama, etc...

 

As your kid(s) get older you'll see this more.

 

Stop hijacking threads. :D:D

 

 

:doh:

 

It was definitely a joke, though I do find soccer to be a pansy sport that makes me go ::tup: ..........

Edited by Menudo

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Just a general message to Huddlers after reading several "kids sports" posts in the tailgate:

 

:D Get your pansy son's out of their pansy soccer cleats and into some shoulder pads.

 

Soccer is for chicks and European homos :D

 

If my son tells me he wants to play Soccer, I'll tell him to pack his bags.

:doh:

 

We have a family friend whose son was a starter goal keeper in soccer all of his elementary and junior high days. He missed the cut for JV Soccer. In looking for a sport to play, he landed on the football team as a placekicker/punter.

 

Four year varsity starter and has a footbal scholarship to a Division 2 school. Not too shabby. :tup:

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We have a family friend whose son was a starter goal keeper in soccer all of his elementary and junior high days. He missed the cut for JV Soccer. In looking for a sport to play, he landed on the football team as a placekicker/punter.

 

Four year varsity starter and has a footbal scholarship to a Division 2 school. Not too shabby. :D

 

Acknowledged hijacking of my own thread, but I have to say: is a kicker really a football player? Oh well, good for him getting a scholarship.

 

Isn't that like calling the drummer in a band a 'musician'??

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Just a general message to Huddlers after reading several "kids sports" posts in the tailgate:

 

:D Get your pansy son's out of their pansy soccer cleats and into some shoulder pads.

 

Soccer is for chicks and European homos :D

 

If my son tells me he wants to play Soccer, I'll tell him to pack his bags.

:tup:

 

+1, but all the great football players come from Ohio.

 

 

As a Michigan fan, I think I'll go vomit now.

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