WSOP Updates

[Cyclones]

Note that you and I have Hellmuth at #1 and A.C. at #7 ... so those two players will exactly cancel each other out. And, I have Danny N at #2 and you have him at #4...so, that'll pretty close to cancel each other out (same with Ivey, my 5 and your 2; Seidel, my 10 and your 5; Juanda, my 11 and your 6; Hachem, my 4 and your 10; Raymer, my 13 and your 11).

 

Essentially, between you and I (at least) it'll come down to how Lindgren (my #3; not on your list), Forrest (my #6; not on your list), Harman (my #8; not on your list) and Greenstein (my #10; not on your list) do against Ferguson (your #3; my #19), Matusow (your #8; not on my list), MMizrachi (your #9; not on my list) and Ulliot (your #12; not on my list).

 

Good luck.

 

 

Oh and I can't believe I left Lindgren out. I threw my list together in 2 minutes, essentially putting down names as they popped into my head. Luckily they popped out in the right order

[Big Country]

It could be that someone else catches and passes us.

 

 

Go Eric Lynch, Shannon Shorr and Alex Jacob.

[muck]

It could be that someone else catches and passes us.

 

 

True dat.

[Cyclones]

Hellmuth made another final table, although ESPN made it a sure thing by stopping play with 10 players remaining and Phil 9th in chips to ensure that he makes the TV broadcast.

[Big Country]

Hellmuth made another final table, although ESPN made it a sure thing by stopping play with 10 players remaining and Phil 9th in chips to ensure that he makes the TV broadcast.

 

 

Not sure if any of you have watched the US Poker Open which has had exhaustive replays on ESPN and ESPN2 the last few months, but one of the final tablers of that event, Dan Shak, has his wife at this final table with Phil. Just a small tidbit.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Big Country

[muck]

Not sure if any of you have watched the US Poker Open which has had exhaustive replays on ESPN and ESPN2 the last few months, but one of the final tables of that event, Dan Shak, has his wife at this final table with Phil. Just a small tidbit.

 

Try again in English.

 

What happened? Dan Shak's wife played instead of Dan? And, it pissed Hellmuth off? And it made for great TV? ???????

[Big Country]

Well, Hellmuth doubled up fairly early on today, so he should be fairly close to an average sized stack now.

[Easy n Dirty]

Well, Hellmuth doubled up fairly early on today, so he should be fairly close to an average sized stack now.

 

 

Here's how it happened:

Hellmuth Doubles Up

Hellmuth raises to $40,000 and Brett Richey puts him all in. Hellmuth instantly calls...by shoving his whole stack in the middle of the table. He then turns over AA while Richey tables 74. Hellmuth runs over to his wife, and as he is talking to her Phil Ivey yells, "Hey Phil you want insurance?" Hellmuth bounds back across the area and quickly discusses things with Ivey. He then makes the announcement, "It's ok honey, if we lose this hand Phil Ivey will pay us $90,000." The board comes KJ8KK, and Hellmuth doubles up.

[SheikYerbuti]

Here's how it happened:

Hellmuth Doubles Up

Hellmuth raises to $40,000 and Brett Richey puts him all in. Hellmuth instantly calls...by shoving his whole stack in the middle of the table. He then turns over AA while Richey tables 74. Hellmuth runs over to his wife, and as he is talking to her Phil Ivey yells, "Hey Phil you want insurance?" Hellmuth bounds back across the area and quickly discusses things with Ivey. He then makes the announcement, "It's ok honey, if we lose this hand Phil Ivey will pay us $90,000." The board comes KJ8KK, and Hellmuth doubles up.

 

 

But what did Ivey get for the insurance? I'm guessing a piece of Hellmuth's final cash today. . . anyone know?

[chiefjay]

But what did Ivey get for the insurance? I'm guessing a piece of Hellmuth's final cash today. . . anyone know?

 

 

Total of 50k for two all in bets. I think 20k for the one that was mentioned above. Not bad.

[SheikYerbuti]

Total of 50k for two all in bets. I think 20k for the one that was mentioned above. Not bad.

 

 

"Hellmuth raises to $120,000 and is called by Beth Shak. The flop comes Q106, and Shak moves all in, putting Hellmuth to a decision for all of his chips. Hellmuth makes the call and shows down A10, but is behind Shak's KQ. he next two cards brick out when they come 92 and Hellmulth is eliminated in 6th place. He ends up losing $109,000 to Ivey on the day, so even though he made $76,464 for sixth place he is down $32,536 on the night."

 

[SheikYerbuti]

Total of 50k for two all in bets. I think 20k for the one that was mentioned above. Not bad.

 

 

AA vs. 74 = 85% - 15% (we don't know the suits, so this is approximate)

 

So Hellmuth is roughly a 6-1 favorite to win the hand. He paid Ivey 20K for a 90K payout if the hand lost. So, he only got 4.5-1 on the insurance. Ivey needed to pay out 120K if the hand lost to give Hellmuth the correct equity. GREAT bet on Ivey's part. He got WAY the best of it, as usual.

[Easy n Dirty]

Here's the sequence of events from cardplayer.com's coverage:

 

1. Hellmuth Doubles Up

Hellmuth raises to $40,000 and Brett Richey puts him all in. Hellmuth instantly calls...by shoving his whole stack in the middle of the table. He then turns over AA while Richey tables 74. Hellmuth runs over to his wife, and as he is talking to her Phil Ivey yells, "Hey Phil you want insurance?" Hellmuth bounds back across the area and quickly discusses things with Ivey. He then makes the announcement, "It's ok honey, if we lose this hand Phil Ivey will pay us $90,000." The board comes KJ8KK, and Hellmuth doubles up.

 

2. Hellmuth Doubles Again

On a board of AJ6 Ben Fineman bets and Hellmuth immediately moves all in. Fineman makes the call and Hellmuth tables A8. Fineman tables J9 and before the turn comes Hellmuth yells, "I want insurance where's Ivey?" When Hellmulth asks him for insurance Ivey replies, "Oh, you got it, what is it (in reference to what the cards are)." After looking it over they decide that Hellmuth will risk $30,000 to Ivey's $90,000. The next two cards come 73, and Hellmuth doubles up. He also loses another $30,000 to Ivey prompting Hellmuth to say, "I've ran out of money in my pocket." That gives Ivey a $50,000 profit on the day, good for 8th place money for the final table with a lot less work.

 

2a. Perry Friedman Eliminated 7th ($57,063)

Perry Friedman moves all in from late position with J10 and is called by Phil Hellmuth out of the big blind with A3. Hellmuth immediately goes to Ivey, and in a Godfather like scene, negotiates a deal to once again purchase insurance. The board comes 7645J, Hellmuth his a straight and sends Friedman home 7th for a $57,063.

 

 

3. Magic in the Room, Brett Richey Eliminated 8th ($42,227) - not part of the Ivey/Hellmuth side bets, just a wild hand

Wow. In a truly amazing poker moment, Brett Richey has been eliminated. Brett Richey raises to $80,000 and Beth Shak moves all in. Phil Hellmuth immediately moves all in, and in response Shak starts dancing. Hellmuth starts celebrating as well, and they give each other a high five. Then, unexpectedly Richey calls as well. Shack tables her hand first, AA and the crowd explodes. Richey then shows down KK and a sick groan mixed with cheers goes up. Then Hellmuth drops AA on the table, and rail erupts the loudest it has been at this years WSOP. The board comes 107384, Richey is sent home, and Hellmuth splits with Shak.

 

4. Prop Bets

Phil Ivey is now accepting prop bets on pretty much anything. He just lost a $1,000 bet on whether Hellmuth would lay down a hand after being rerasied. He did, and Ivey lost the bet. Beth Shak heard the bet and warned the rail not to become too degenerate, Ivey responded, "I'm just getting started."

 

5. Hellmuth Doubles Up

Hellmuth raises to $120,000 and Dustin Holmes puts him all in. Hellmuth insta-calls with K10 and as soon as Fineman tables QJ Hellmuth sprints over to Ivey to make a bet. The terms are quickly agreed upon, and Hellmuth ends up betting another $30,000 against himself on the QJ. The board comes 5438A, Hellmuth's king high takes down the pot, doubling him to around $600,000 in chips. It also costs him another $30,000 in real money, and he claimed he was now down $89,000 to Ivey on the night.

 

6. Phil Hellmuth Eliminated 6th ($76,464)

Hellmuth raises to $120,000 and is called by Beth Shak. The flop comes Q106, and Shak moves all in, putting Hellmuth to a decision for all of his chips. Hellmuth makes the call and shows down A10, but is behind Shak's KQ. he next two cards brick out when they come 92 and Hellmulth is eliminated in 6th place. He ends up losing $109,000 to Ivey on the day, so even though he made $76,464 for sixth place he is down $32,536 on the night.

 

 

Gotta' admit, it sounds like a fun life.

[Easy n Dirty]

AA vs. 74 = 85% - 15% (we don't know the suits, so this is approximate)

 

So Hellmuth is roughly a 6-1 favorite to win the hand. He paid Ivey 20K for a 90K payout if the hand lost. So, he only got 4.5-1 on the insurance. Ivey needed to pay out 120K if the hand lost to give Hellmuth the correct equity. GREAT bet on Ivey's part. He got WAY the best of it, as usual.

 

 

And on the second hand, Hellmuth had A clubs- 8 hearts against the other guy's J spades - 9 diamonds, with a board of A spades - J diamonds - 6 clubs, making Hellmuth an 81.6% favorite. And Ivey put up 90k to Hellmuth's 30K. Another great bet for Ivey - he's a 4-1 dog roughly and he's giving 3-to-1 odds..

 

I guess there's a dynamic in play here where if Hellmuth wins the hand, it's worth something to him in terms of the size of his stack and his chances of winning the WSOP event, and that's why he's willing to overpay for insurance. But in these two instances, it seems he overpayed by an awful lot. First one was worse, but neither was good (I checked the suits on the AA vs 74 hand, and you're 85-15 split is spot on).

[TimC]

 

3. Magic in the Room, Brett Richey Eliminated 8th ($42,227) - not part of the Ivey/Hellmuth side bets, just a wild hand

Wow. In a truly amazing poker moment, Brett Richey has been eliminated. Brett Richey raises to $80,000 and Beth Shak moves all in. Phil Hellmuth immediately moves all in, and in response Shak starts dancing. Hellmuth starts celebrating as well, and they give each other a high five. Then, unexpectedly Richey calls as well. Shack tables her hand first, AA and the crowd explodes. Richey then shows down KK and a sick groan mixed with cheers goes up. Then Hellmuth drops AA on the table, and rail erupts the loudest it has been at this years WSOP. The board comes 107384, Richey is sent home, and Hellmuth splits with Shak.

 

 

That's amazing. Same thing happened to me in a Borgata tourney. I was out of the hand thankfully. Guy had queens though...and folded them pre-flop after an all-in and a call. Both had aces. Seen it happen but when it does in big moments, it is special to watch.

 

Can't wait to see that on ESPN.

[Big Country]

Preparing for my trip that I leave on tonight, so not sure if I will get much of a break at work to allow me to get an update in before the weekend.

 

I know Negreanu is at the 7 stud final table, and that Shannon Shorr made the top 8 in the heads up tournament, havent had time to check how the other events are progressing. Hellmuth with another top 8 finish will help many players.

[muck]

Preparing for my trip that I leave on tonight, so not sure if I will get much of a break at work to allow me to get an update in before the weekend.

 

I know Negreanu is at the 7 stud final table, and that Shannon Shorr made the top 8 in the heads up tournament, havent had time to check how the other events are progressing. Hellmuth with another top 8 finish will help many players.

 

 

Slacker.

 

...how long are you going to be gone again?

[Big Country]

Slacker.

 

...how long are you going to be gone again?

 

 

I get home real late Sat night/early Sun morning. There is a small chance I will be able to update tomorrow afternoon (I'll be bringing my laptop and the files to do it, but having not seen my parents in two months and this being my first trip back to Northern California in almost a year, with a short time frame (drive in tonight, getting in about 2AM if all goes well, visit grandmother and aunt in AM, drive to parents house fighting Sears Point traffic, and prepare for BBQ at their house on Sat. May have an hour or two free tomorrow or Sat AM before people show up for the BBQ.)

 

Expect Cyclones to still be in the lead....... unless Shannon Shorr can win this heads up tourney.

 

Speaking of which, as this is the first year of the tourney, how should I arrange points for the top 16. Should everyone knocked out in the round of 16 get 9th place points (I do believe they all cash the same) or should I backtrack once final results are in so that for example, give 3rd place to whomever lost to the winner in the round of 4, and 4th place to whomever lost to the 2nd place finisher, and so on down the line?

 

Planning to just give all 9th place point at this point for round of 16 eliminations, 5th place for the round of 8 eliminations, 3rd place for final 4 eliminations then 1st and 2nd, but I don't mind calculating out 1-16 if that is preferred.

[Cyclones]

I get home real late Sat night/early Sun morning. There is a small chance I will be able to update tomorrow afternoon (I'll be bringing my laptop and the files to do it, but having not seen my parents in two months and this being my first trip back to Northern California in almost a year, with a short time frame (drive in tonight, getting in about 2AM if all goes well, visit grandmother and aunt in AM, drive to parents house fighting Sears Point traffic, and prepare for BBQ at their house on Sat. May have an hour or two free tomorrow or Sat AM before people show up for the BBQ.)

 

Expect Cyclones to still be in the lead....... unless Shannon Shorr can win this heads up tourney.

 

Speaking of which, as this is the first year of the tourney, how should I arrange points for the top 16. Should everyone knocked out in the round of 16 get 9th place points (I do believe they all cash the same) or should I backtrack once final results are in so that for example, give 3rd place to whomever lost to the winner in the round of 4, and 4th place to whomever lost to the 2nd place finisher, and so on down the line?

 

Planning to just give all 9th place point at this point for round of 16 eliminations, 5th place for the round of 8 eliminations, 3rd place for final 4 eliminations then 1st and 2nd, but I don't mind calculating out 1-16 if that is preferred.

 

 

Who has Shannon Shorr ranked that high? I remember you having him at #9 or #10 BC, but a win would get you 500 points and I think you were about 1100 behind me. I also grabbed some extra points on the Hellmuth 8th since I had him ranked first.

 

I knew I should have put Vanessa "It's Pat" Selbst on my list.......

[Big Country]

Who has Shannon Shorr ranked that high? I remember you having him at #9 or #10 BC, but a win would get you 500 points and I think you were about 1100 behind me. I also grabbed some extra points on the Hellmuth 8th since I had him ranked first.

 

I knew I should have put Vanessa "It's Pat" Selbst on my list.......

 

 

Just noting that I would catch up a little bit maybe with Shorr. Makes me feel good that Igot real lucky and all 3 of my internet unknowns have had good finishes this year.

 

But, I still give major kudos to you for picking bracelet winners at your 1 and 2 spots. I really doubt that will be duplicated.

[Cyclones]

Just noting that I would catch up a little bit maybe with Shorr. Makes me feel good that Igot real lucky and all 3 of my internet unknowns have had good finishes this year.

 

But, I still give major kudos to you for picking bracelet winners at your 1 and 2 spots. I really doubt that will be duplicated.

 

 

Actually I had Ivey ranked 2nd and he still hasnt won one (but has two very high finishes.) Matusow and Seidel are killing me.

[muck]

I get home real late Sat night/early Sun morning. There is a small chance I will be able to update tomorrow afternoon (I'll be bringing my laptop and the files to do it, but having not seen my parents in two months and this being my first trip back to Northern California in almost a year, with a short time frame (drive in tonight, getting in about 2AM if all goes well, visit grandmother and aunt in AM, drive to parents house fighting Sears Point traffic, and prepare for BBQ at their house on Sat. May have an hour or two free tomorrow or Sat AM before people show up for the BBQ.)

 

Just bustin yer chops.

 

Expect Cyclones to still be in the lead....... unless Shannon Shorr can win this heads up tourney.

 

This game cheats.

 

Speaking of which, as this is the first year of the tourney, how should I arrange points for the top 16. Should everyone knocked out in the round of 16 get 9th place points (I do believe they all cash the same) or should I backtrack once final results are in so that for example, give 3rd place to whomever lost to the winner in the round of 4, and 4th place to whomever lost to the 2nd place finisher, and so on down the line?

 

Planning to just give all 9th place point at this point for round of 16 eliminations, 5th place for the round of 8 eliminations, 3rd place for final 4 eliminations then 1st and 2nd, but I don't mind calculating out 1-16 if that is preferred.

 

Or you could do it like golf where they split prize money for ties (excepting ties for first, in which case there is a playoff) ... which would require you to add up the points for (say) 9-16 and divide by 8 and each one gets an average finish of 12.5th place ...

 

That is fairer than giving everyone 9th / 5th / 3rd place points (imo) and simpler than you going back through everything to create a 'mock seeding' of the top 16 finishers.

[muck]

Who has Shannon Shorr ranked that high? I remember you having him at #9 or #10 BC, but a win would get you 500 points and I think you were about 1100 behind me. I also grabbed some extra points on the Hellmuth 8th since I had him ranked first.

 

I knew I should have put Vanessa "It's Pat" Selbst on my list.......

 

 

I'm making up ground as I have Danny N two spots ahead of you and we both have Hellmuth at #1...

[Big Country]

Or you could do it like golf where they split prize money for ties (excepting ties for first, in which case there is a playoff) ... which would require you to add up the points for (say) 9-16 and divide by 8 and each one gets an average finish of 12.5th place ...

 

That is fairer than giving everyone 9th / 5th / 3rd place points (imo) and simpler than you going back through everything to create a 'mock seeding' of the top 16 finishers.

 

 

Yeah, but the way I have it built in Excel could make this difficult (maybe could do 12th for the round of 16 losers, 6th for the round of 8 losers, stick with 4rd for final 4 losers then do 1st and 2nd). That would be fairly close to the golf method which is probably the best way to do it.

[Cyclones]

Yeah, but the way I have it built in Excel could make this difficult (maybe could do 12th for the round of 16 losers, 6th for the round of 8 losers, stick with 4rd for final 4 losers then do 1st and 2nd). That would be fairly close to the golf method which is probably the best way to do it.

 

 

Any updates BC? I suspect my lead will begin shrinking, I have seen none of my guys except Negreanu at a final table the last several days, and most have him ranked higher than I do.

 

I need Ferguson to have a deep run and Seidel to actually show up in Vegas.