Perchoutofwater Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Who knows at this point. This is my final post in this thread. It's not worth it to keep arguing over. I do this for a living. I'm exposed to all products on a daily basis. I go to trainings on each and every product I sell. I sell good stuff and I sell crap. Laminate floors are crap. Engineered floors are excellent. I've seen the products being made. I don't have a bias or ulerior motive in redommending one over another. I sell more solid hardwoods than I do engineered. But given Sushi's initial question, what to put in his kitchen, and his concerns with the humidity living in Virginia, engineered hardwood is the correct product to use. It has a warranty for these areas and will hold up to the potential water better than solid. (We haven't even touched on the fact that it is ground level and potentially could be on concrete). The rest of this thread has been devoted to some people's personal opinions and not the facts. I don't have a dog in this hunt, I'm just giving an opposing POV. Apparently I know a little bit because I do know that you can get a commercial warranty on wood floors. By the way another that carries a warranty just came to mind. Bruce Ecostrip carries a 25 year residential and a 3 year commercial warranty. I'll just add there is nothing wrong with putting solid wood on concrete. It is done here in east Texas all the time, and I doubt Virginny is any more humid than it is here. You just need to make sure that there is no moisture in the concrete at the time it is installed. You can do this with a 3% solution of phenolphthalein in grain alcohol. Just sprinkle a little bit around in several locations and as long as it doesn't turn red, your good to go. As a matter of fact, all the wood floors that we have had installed have been done on concrete, as we don't build stick buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) I believe what you are saying, Pat. I have seen Engineered floors in a lot of new construction and I have never felt like there was anything wrong and would not hesitate to use it. Now just because you said no more posts in this thread I have to ask you a quick question. What sort of wood should I use on an outdoor pourch? This pourch is tounge and grove and is not nailed down to any sort of sub floor. It is just nailed to some joists. Any opinion on this? Do you want a natural look are are you going to paint it? Please say natural, other wise don't use wood. If going for the natural look, and if you can afford it go with redwood. If you can't afford redwood, cedar and cypress are also nice. Or you can just use pressure treated pine or spruce. If you are going to paint it then use a synthetic that is already colored so you don't have to worry about the upkeep. Edited July 2, 2007 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I don't have a dog in this hunt, I'm just giving an opposing POV. Apparently I know a little bit because I do know that you can get a commercial warranty on wood floors. By the way another that carries a warranty just came to mind. Bruce Ecostrip carries a 25 year residential and a 3 year commercial warranty. I'll just add there is nothing wrong with putting solid wood on concrete. It is done here in east Texas all the time, and I doubt Virginny is any more humid than it is here. You just need to make sure that there is no moisture in the concrete at the time it is installed. You can do this with a 3% solution of phenolphthalein in grain alcohol. Just sprinkle a little bit around in several locations and as long as it doesn't turn red, your good to go. As a matter of fact, all the wood floors that we have had installed have been done on concrete, as we don't build stick buildings. Surely you install over a vaporshield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Surely you install over a vaporshield? Yes, in most cases. We follow the manufacturers installation instructions. Even with a vapor shield you are going to have seems that aren't completely sealed, or a small tear in the shield that is why you want to test the concrete's moisture before you start the installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I don't have a dog in this hunt, I'm just giving an opposing POV. Apparently I know a little bit because I do know that you can get a commercial warranty on wood floors. By the way another that carries a warranty just came to mind. Bruce Ecostrip carries a 25 year residential and a 3 year commercial warranty. I'll just add there is nothing wrong with putting solid wood on concrete. It is done here in east Texas all the time, and I doubt Virginny is any more humid than it is here. You just need to make sure that there is no moisture in the concrete at the time it is installed. You can do this with a 3% solution of phenolphthalein in grain alcohol. Just sprinkle a little bit around in several locations and as long as it doesn't turn red, your good to go. As a matter of fact, all the wood floors that we have had installed have been done on concrete, as we don't build stick buildings. Allright, you sucked me back in. I believe Bruce EcoStrip is a 5/16" solid product, not 3/4". But I do not sell Bruce so am not 100% on that. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Please show me a 3/4" solid wood manufacturer that has a written warranty for this type of installation. I'm not familliar with one. If there is one out there, it would be helpful to me to know. I don't sell every brand of flooring, so my knowledge of many is lacking, I admit. What I try to do is know as much about my competitiors products as possible. I'm always up for learning more about other companies products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Allright, you sucked me back in. I believe Bruce EcoStrip is a 5/16" solid product, not 3/4". But I do not sell Bruce so am not 100% on that. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Please show me a 3/4" solid wood manufacturer that has a written warranty for this type of installation. I'm not familliar with one. If there is one out there, it would be helpful to me to know. I don't sell every brand of flooring, so my knowledge of many is lacking, I admit. What I try to do is know as much about my competitiors products as possible. I'm always up for learning more about other companies products. I know Robbins has a warranty on one of their 25/32 floors, but I'd have to go dig around in the vault for the submittal info to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) Semantics and facts are not the same thing. It's wood. They are both wood. I mean seriously, who really gives a crap how they get there? It's wood. Now laminate, whole different story, then you're talking about a picture of wood. Which if you guys start arguing about pictures of wood I'm calling the rainbow police to haul both your asses out of here. Edited July 2, 2007 by Chief Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 It's wood. They are both wood. I mean seriously, who really gives a crap how they get there? It's wood. Now laminate, whole different story, then you're talking about a picture of wood. Which if you guys start arguing about pictures of wood I'm calling the rainbow police to haul both your asses out of here. Good info here. What I've been trying (apparently poorly) to say all freakin day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Good info here. What I've been trying (apparently poorly) to say all freakin day I'm a simple man, breaking things down so all the other simpletons can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I'm a simple man, breaking things down so all the other simpletons can understand. What about the glue? Doesn't glue injected into the layers make it wood AND animal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 What about the glue? Doesn't glue injected into the layers make it wood AND animal? LoL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 What about the glue? Doesn't glue injected into the layers make it wood AND animal? THAT is a very good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Pat, for future reference, Mercier and Mullican also carry commercial warranties, though honestly we haven't used them much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Pat, for future reference, Mercier and Mullican also carry commercial warranties, though honestly we haven't used them much. I stand corrected. And i don't know very much about either of these products, but 'm willing to bet that if they make an engineered floor as well, it will have the same or better wear warranty, plus a warranty on warping and cupping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I know that Laminate is not what you are talking about, but I have to say I LOVE the Harmonics floor I put in the Townhouse I just bought in Virginia. It looks fantastic, was easy to install and was sooooo much cheaper than the "real" stuff. I understand the argument about resale value, blah, blah blah, but it is also important to remember that you do not EVER get penny for penny return on any upgrade. Heck, some people DO NOT LIKE hardwood floors and will carpet right over them when they move in (it happened in my last house I sold). For me, a guy with kids and a dog, knowing that I have and ultra hard (I dropped a claw hammer on the floor two days after I fininshed and was scared to look. When I did... NOTHING ) , easy clean surface that looks great more than balances out the "real" factor. Not including gouges, more likely with real floors, you do not have to strip and re-seal every so often. My Townhouse came with "real" wood on the ground floor, and I think it will take longer to get that looking good than it did to put in the laminate. High traffic areas are a non-factor, and kids trecking in from the snow and mud make for quick and easy clean-ups while avoiding the need to put down area rugs at the entrances to protect the floor below. The real key in "wet areas" is to seal the edges with caulk. I also used a silicon sealer as "glue" to hold the 1/4 round to the base board. This seals the space between the wall and the floor, but is flexible enough to adjust to temp changes. Costco did not have a huge selection, but had three wood finishes, basically light, medium and dark. I went with the cottage oak (medium) in the three bathrooms and kitchen/day room. The variety of photo imigaes/patterns imbedded and the laminate ensure very little if any noticeable repetition in pattern (a problem with some other products). Their install kits are cheap and complete. You get the finishing pieces from Harmonics directly and I thought their prices were reasonable though I did get 1/4 round to match at Lowes for less (though not as resliant as the Hamonics product, I don't plan on putting it in areas where it can get dinged). I also get white, sythetic material 1/4 round for the bathrooms and the kitchen (blends nicely into the existing white base boards) because it gives added water resistance in the potentially wet areas. I have NEVER had a problem with laminate in bathrooms or around the sink. Just don't let water sit too long and you will be fine. My kids splash around in the tub and always get some on the floor. Just dry it up when you get them out and it will be fine. For the price (1/4 or less the price if you do your own install), ease of mantainance and beautiful look, IMHO you just can't beat some of the laminate products out there! Depending on your budget and where you want to put it, it is worth considering! A co-worker has been wrestling his wood floor on a do-it-yourself install for months. I did my kitchen/day room (with island) in about 14 hours. After he saw my floor, he has decided to finish his familyroom, kitchen and day room in the Harmonics product. Unless you really look or know what you are looking for, you never will know the difference with just a casual glance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 engineered will hold up 100 times better to a dw overflow than solid will. And i sell pre-fiinished solids, with a finish you can't ever touch with job site finishing ......... I'll go Toe to Toe with your Ghey Factory Computer Robots any day........stick to FFB ya wood hater.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 ......... I'll go Toe to Toe with your Ghey Factory Computer Robots any day........stick to FFB ya wood hater.......... Nuke loves wood!! Nuke loves wood!! NTTAWWT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Nuke loves wood!! Nuke loves wood!! NTTAWWT Nothin wrong with alittle tongue n groove action...............but i draw the line a butt joints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 My wife said her orgasms are "engineered" is this good or bad? Hi. My name is Casey Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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