LT2

[broncosn05]

I got interested when I saw Tomlinson was so close to 10,000 so I crunched some numbers-

 

Rushing Yardage

Jim Brown as he was on a crazy pace, best of the Top 20 rushers ever by a LONG shot. In his 9 years in the league, he only played in 12 games in 4 of them (14 in the others) totaling 118 games (7.375 current seasons). Altering his current statistics to a 16 game pace he would have had 15,135 in a 9 year career. And then bringing it down to 7.375 seasons he would have had 12,402 yards, 1,682 yards per season(second in pace by a sizable margin Barry Sanders only averaged 1,526 y/s). Tomlinson, second in this pace (4th is CMart 1,401) and entering his prime, is at 1,529 y/s.

 

Notables

Marshall Faulk- 1116.27 y/s

Emmitt Smith- 1224 y/s

 

Rushing TDs

Again Jim Brown's pace is rediculous. Doing the same thing to take the game numbers into consideration he would have had 132 TDs in 9 years (then finding his average rTDs/s), which is 14.66 rTDs/s. Then went out on a search for second, which is Emmitt Smith at 10.93 rTDs/s. Oh yeah LT2 is at a simply rediculous 16.66 rTDs/s.

 

Notables

Marshall Faulk- 9.09 rTDs/s

Barry Sanders- 9.9 rTDs/s

Curtis Martin- 9 rTDs/s (as with all of his stats counting the 2005 season, but not the 2006 season)

 

Receiving Yards

Let the Marshall Faulk show begin. Faulk averaged 625 rey/s, leaving everyone else way behind. Even LT shades in comparison as he stands now at 483.33 rey/s.

 

Notables

Emmitt Smith- 213.93 rey/s

Jim Brown- 329.79 rey/s

Barry Sanders- 292.1 rey/s

Curtis Martin- 332.9 rey/s

 

Receptions

And for the second act Faulk dominates (69.73 r/s) as no one else in the Top 20 rushers (where Faulk ranks 12th) was ever really a receiving threat, even Marcus Allen is no where close. LT is easily second with his current 66.33 r/s.

 

Notables

Emmitt Smith- 34.33 r/s

Jim Brown- 34.86 r/s

Barry Sanders- 35.2 r/s

Curtis Martin- 48.4 r/s

 

Receiving TDs

Faulk (3.27 reTDs/s) completes the triple crown and takes all three receiving categories followed this time by who else, but Jim Brown (2.48 reTDs/s). Tomlinson surprising dwindled at this spot with just 1.83reTDs/s. Nonetheless, I did a quick run through of the top 20 and didn't do the calculations, but LT seemed to still be fine at 3rd.

 

Notables

Emmitt Smith- .73 reTDs/s

Barry Sanders- 1 reTDs/s

Curtis Martin- 1 reTDs/s

 

Bottomline: This is really more of a gauge of who was the most dominant RBs and who was the best statistical RB in their time. And it looks like Jim Brown was pretty damn dominant. The length of his career seemed to be the only thing that held him back, and of course competition as he held all the major records (single-season (1,863 in 1963) and career rushing (12,312 yards), as well as the all-time leader in rushing touchdowns (106), total touchdowns (126), and all-purpose yards (15,549)). Of course, it's hard to really say right now because I'm just comparing the beginning of one career to the entire career of the other players. LT, however, is very high up there in every category (2,1,2,2,3). If he is able to continue staying healthy (has only missed 1 game in 7 years) than he definetely has the oppurtunity to be one of the best if not the best RB ever.

 

*Notables- Just the guys that were mentioned leading or 2nd in another category.

edit- some numbers were a bit skewed.

Edited July 5, 2007 by broncosn05

[alexgaddis]

I say yes

[isleseeya]

I say maybe ...when he is all said and done it could be the case but not yet for me

 

Brown was a monster , payton was my favorite and sanders had ridiculous talent paying on some really bad det teams ...tomlinson is already in my top 4 and can move up in time for sure

[Pope Flick]

What makes some of this difficult, is how over the past ten years Season TD totals have simply spiked. Without digging too deep, Emmitt popped this cherry in 1996 with his 20+ TD season, which I think Terry Allen did the following year. Since then, Faulk, Alexander, Holmes, and LT have all reestablished what was thought to be a pretty stiff record to break.

 

None of that was going on before the mid-90's which really skews some of these numbers. Kinda like HR totals in baseball, but there's no jice involved merely different offensive priorities.

[isleseeya]

What makes some of this difficult, is how over the past ten years Season TD totals have simply spiked. Without digging too deep, Emmitt popped this cherry in 1996 with his 20+ TD season, which I think Terry Allen did the following year. Since then, Faulk, Alexander, Holmes, and LT have all reestablished what was thought to be a pretty stiff record to break.

 

None of that was going on before the mid-90's which really skews some of these numbers. Kinda like HR totals in baseball, but there's no jice involved merely different offensive priorities.

 

Well said and good pt

[The Wolf]

This is what makes sports so awesome...comparing players from different eras. I do believe that in LT2, we are watching one of the best ever. Is he THE best? Stats do not always answer the question...Broncos, great job crunching the numbers BTW.

 

When I hear the name Jim Brown, I think legend. Stuff of lore, a man among boys. LT2, while arguably the best RB today, does not quite do that for me. Society today is so quick to measure and label everything as the greatest or best ever. For me, I don't think this is a question that can be answered until after he has left the game and his accomplishments can truly be digested and appreciated.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited July 5, 2007 by The Wolf

[broncosn05]

What makes some of this difficult, is how over the past ten years Season TD totals have simply spiked. Without digging too deep, Emmitt popped this cherry in 1996 with his 20+ TD season, which I think Terry Allen did the following year. Since then, Faulk, Alexander, Holmes, and LT have all reestablished what was thought to be a pretty stiff record to break.

 

None of that was going on before the mid-90's which really skews some of these numbers. Kinda like HR totals in baseball, but there's no jice involved merely different offensive priorities.

But comparing LT2 to guys like Shaun Alexander and Holmes really isn't close. Even taking Priest's '97 and '06 years away niether top LT in any category. LT2 is, well, dominant.

[broncosn05]

When I hear the name Jim Brown, I think legend. Stuff of lore, a man among boys. LT2, while arguable the best RB today, does not quite do that for me. Society today is so quick to measure and lable everything as the greatest or best ever. For me, I don't think this is a question that can be answered until after he has left the game and his accomplishments can truly be digested and appreciated.

 

Just my two cents.

That's why this turned into more of a gauge of domination during a certain time. Though Jim Brown's stats might have been better playing the same defenses LT probably would have exceeded his stats, but then there's the medical advances of today and if Jim Brown was so dominant back then why would he not be now. Of course stats are not the only thing. It's impossible to figure what Sanders would've done on a better team or what Jim Brown would've done with Lorenzo Neal. And stats are the only tangible things we have to compare them.

[McBoog]

Interesting you bring this up! There was a blurb by Pat Kirwin on nfl.com his morning.

 

IS LADAINIAN TOMLINSON ALREADY CONFIRMED FOR THE HALL OF FAME?

The football fans at the water cooler may be having discussions this time of year about who belongs in the Hall of Fame. Yesterday I was asked if LaDainian Tomlinson is already a Hall of Fame player. I had to stop and think for a minute, and I said he probably is when you compare his six-year production to Gale Sayers' production over his seven years.

 

L.T. has averaged 341 rushing plays and 66 receptions a season during his career. He has rushed for 9,176 yards and has scored 111 touchdowns. Tomlinson averages 18 touchdowns a season.

 

The great Gale Sayers only touched the ball 159 times a season as a runner and receiver and averaged just 900 total yards a season and seven touchdowns. Granted, his last two years were injury-riddled and he only played four games in those two years, but his 68 game totals were 4,956 rushing yards, 1,307 receiving yards and 48 touchdowns. His game average was 73 yards rushing, 19 yards receiving and 4.2 points per game. Tomlinson's game average is 96.5 yards rushing, 14 yards receiving, 7 points -- plus he's thrown six touchdowns. Yes, L.T. is a Hall of Fame back.

 

 

 

This was comparing LT to a RB already in the Great Hall. Those of you who are still in the "wait and see" mode are just being blind and petty. You are watching a player, in your time, that is re-writing the record book almost every week in some way. Sit, back, enjoy the ride and relish in the fact that you can tell your grandkids that you got to watch one of the greatest to ever dom cleats dominate the gridiron. Just because you lose to the guy that starts him in a FF league or won a FFChampionship because he had LT and a bunch of scrubs doesn't mean you should be POed at the guy!

 

IMO. if he stopped today, he is first ballet. Why would he not be? What "more" do you need to be convinced? This kid was doing this as a rook, on a crappy team, without Lo Neal!

 

If you don't think he is deserving yet, you are probably part of the group of goobers/haters that was trying to say LT had lost a step at the beginning of the year last year (wishful thinking).

 

I am not sure if LT will return as this year's point leader. To duplicate what he did last year is almost impossible. If he does duplicate or better, then he is absolutely in the Hall. No questions. Then again, the haters out there will use any lack of production compared to last year as an excuse to do a "told ya so".

 

Fantasywise. You take him first. Year after year he is a top 3-5 performer. I have not run the numbers, but there are few if any that are as consistent as he is on a yearly basis. You select consistency and enjoy the ride. If I could be guaranteed that my first round pick is going to finish in the top ten at the end of the year, you would feel pretty good about that...No? With LT you are practically assured a top 5 performance. Good investment. Unless you have a crystal ball that tells you that "Frank Gore" will finish #1, taking him at #1 in your draft is stoopid. I can never get over how reeetardid FF players sound when they get upset over the fact that their #1 pick didn't finish #1 overall. How often does that actually happen.

 

Rant over!

 

( at myself)

[broncosn05]

Interesting you bring this up! There was a blurb by Pat Kirwin on nfl.com his morning.

 

Rant over!

 

( at myself)

That was a hell of a rant. I respect LT and get to watch him dominate my team twice a year. And that's just in real life.

 

We're gonna stop em this year.

Edited July 6, 2007 by broncosn05

[Randall]

I say maybe ...when he is all said and done it could be the case but not yet for me

 

Brown was a monster , payton was my favorite and sanders had ridiculous talent paying on some really bad det teams ...tomlinson is already in my top 4 and can move up in time for sure

 

 

Payton was some bad teams until Ditka got there too.

[The Wolf]

This was comparing LT to a RB already in the Great Hall. Those of you who are still in the "wait and see" mode are just being blind and petty.

 

IMO. if he stopped today, he is first ballet. Why would he not be? What "more" do you need to be convinced? This kid was doing this as a rook, on a crappy team, without Lo Neal!

 

If you don't think he is deserving yet, you are probably part of the group of goobers/haters that was trying to say LT had lost a step at the beginning of the year last year (wishful thinking)

 

That was a good rant McBoog, but I don't recall where any of us who posted said he was not a HOFer. This topic is whether or not he is the best ever.

 

For me, I have Jim Brown at the top of the list and, when all is said and done, LT2 may very well be there.

[McBoog]

That was a good rant McBoog, but I don't recall where any of us who posted said he was not a HOFer. This topic is whether or not he is the best ever.

 

For me, I have Jim Brown at the top of the list and, when all is said and done, LT2 may very well be there.

 

Just bein' a "tad too sensitive" about my boy! It is great being a Charger homer AND having him on the team. But, I think that I would be as enthused about the kid! Good person AND great player!

 

The beginning of last year was frustrating hearing all the "lost a step" and not a Hall player yet. Well, you know what they say about "the last laugh".

 

What a ride...huh?

Edited July 6, 2007 by McBoog

[The Wolf]

Just bein' a "tad too sensitive" about my boy! It is great being a Charger homer AND having him on the team. But, I think that I would be as enthused about the kid! Good person AND great player!

 

The beginning of last year was frustrating hearing all the "lost a step" and not a Hall player yet. Well, you know what they say about "the last laugh".

 

What a ride...huh?

 

Hey bro...I completely understand...he seems to be as good a person as he is a player. I don't recall anyone last year saying he "lost a step" but to those who did, clearly, they were just a liiiiiitle bit wrong...and probably were Turner the Burner owners!

 

His first six years are already, far and away, among the greatest (if not THE greatest) statistical years of any RB in history.

[DKF]

I'll put my money on SJax outproducing him over the course of their respective careers.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

I'll put my money on SJax outproducing him over the course of their respective careers.

 

[Duchess Jack]

LT is the best. He can pass, he can throw, he can catch and he is humble as anything

[McBoog]

I'll put my money on SJax outproducing him over the course of their respective careers.

 

 

What exactly do you base this on? Any stats to show a trend supporting this?

 

He hasn't matched what LT has done in comparative years but has come close with TDS production. Are you expecting multiple 2,000 yard seasons all of a sudden?

 

I like SJax, alot. But he ain't no LT and NEVER had to perform on a team where he was the ONLY threat like LT did when he first got to the Chargers (and boy did they suck! ). Given that, he still in his first three years compiled over 6,000 yards from scrimmage and 42 TDs and a TD pass. Jackson in his first three years has gone for 4,500 yards and 37 TDs. Impressive, but the supporting cast has been much greater than LT had his first three years.

 

Break it down to years two and three to "exclude" the split time with Faulk year one.

 

Tomlinson on a lesser team than Jackson's Rams had 4,500 yards from scrimmage, 27 TDs and a TD pass, compared to 3,900 yards from scrimmage and 26 TDs for Jackson.

 

Now, I may be wrong and you have some ability to see into the future that denies these facts. Cool, share it. LT is on a climbing team that will be good for a while with a new head coach that will keep his numbers pumped (barring injury). Jackson is on a good team that is in transition with no guarantee that he will continue to have the outstanding supporting cast he has had.

 

 

In other words... I don't get it!

[DKF]

 

What exactly do you base this on? Any stats to show a trend supporting this?

 

He hasn't matched what LT has done in comparative years but has come close with TDS production. Are you expecting multiple 2,000 yard seasons all of a sudden?

 

I like SJax, alot. But he ain't no LT and NEVER had to perform on a team where he was the ONLY threat like LT did when he first got to the Chargers (and boy did they suck! ). Given that, he still in his first three years compiled over 6,000 yards from scrimmage and 42 TDs and a TD pass. Jackson in his first three years has gone for 4,500 yards and 37 TDs. Impressive, but the supporting cast has been much greater than LT had his first three years.

 

Break it down to years two and three to "exclude" the split time with Faulk year one.

 

Tomlinson on a lesser team than Jackson's Rams had 4,500 yards from scrimmage, 27 TDs and a TD pass, compared to 3,900 yards from scrimmage and 26 TDs for Jackson.

 

Now, I may be wrong and you have some ability to see into the future that denies these facts. Cool, share it. LT is on a climbing team that will be good for a while with a new head coach that will keep his numbers pumped (barring injury). Jackson is on a good team that is in transition with no guarantee that he will continue to have the outstanding supporting cast he has had.

 

 

In other words... I don't get it!

 

Good comparisions. Very good analysis.

 

Simpy put, my humble opinion is that as you stated, SJax got off to a slow start the first two years, during the Faulk era and LT had a phenominal year last year. I was very happy to ride that into my auction league championship.

 

Yet, at year 3, SJax is posting very similar stats to what LT put up in year 3. I belief that SJax will continue to put up the same numbers over the next 6-7 years. I believe that those numbers will eventually eclipse the numbers that LT will rack up. SJax has the build and physique to accomplish this.

 

This is no way a knock on LT. Merely a projection on SJax's future.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

my gut tells me SJax runs a little too.....violent. And upright. See Dickerson, Eric. For some reason I see similarities.

 

PS. ED was an awesome back, but he could have broken all the records had he stayed healthier.

[Zooty]

Are you trying to tell us that LT is better than Gore?

[Polecat]

maybe

[RC94]

He's pretty good.

[Jimmy Neutron]

He's special - there is no quetion about that.

 

I like to piss off the old guys in conversations like this by saying that Jim Brown would have been nothing special playing against today's defenses, but I have no way of proving that.

 

LT is gifted enough to out run and/or make even the best of today's defenders look oh so stupid. He's fun to watch and a class act, but I can't say he's the best of all time just yet. He needs to do it for a few more years to catch Barry and Walter in my eyes. I mean no disrespect to Emmitt - he certainly had longevity, but he was no where near as fun to watch as these other cats.

[Chargerz]

LT is exciting to watch on the field. If he can stay healthy, he'll be right up there with all the other great RB's. I would love to see him end up at the top of every career statistical category!