DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I was supprised how good this documentary was. Its mainly about the EV1 that GM produced (and later recalled and destroyed) in the late 90's and the history of electric cars in general. It's really amazing how many people have a stake in us using gas powered cars. Electric engines have no moving parts thus dont need the same level of maintainance as a gas powered car, there arent as many parts that need regular replacing (Air filter, oil filter, oil seals, engine seals, most belts, exhaust systems, etc) and obviously and most importantly instead of gas you are using Coal, Hydro, Solar, Geo, Wind or Neuclar power. It really is a must see. Plug In America P.S. Not a Michael Moore documentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 cant be real ... we need oil to live it makes up 25 percent of our body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 there arent as many parts that need regular replacing (Air filter, oil filter, oil seals, engine seals, most belts, exhaust systems, Where do we get most of our electricity? 52% or more of it comes from coal. Your little 'movie' is not a documentary, it is a propoganda peice for one point of view. Nothing wrong with that, but don't act like it is the final say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Where do we get most of our electricity? 52% or more of it comes from coal. Your little 'movie' is not a documentary, it is a propoganda peice for one point of view. Nothing wrong with that, but don't act like it is the final say. Have you seen it? I believe I mentioned coal as a power source. I deliberately didnt mention "Global Warming" because this is about saving money not the environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 if someone could make money selling it, i'm pretty sure they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 if someone could make money selling it, i'm pretty sure they would. Thats the point. There are so many industries that would lose money from us buying it that auto makers are being preasured into not making them. From the auto parts dealers to the mechanics to the oil industry. It is in too many peoples vested interest for us not to have this technology. Would you like to save money on something you have grown up thinking is an unaviodable expense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Thats the point. There are so many industries that would lose money from us buying it that auto makers are being preasured into not making them. From the auto parts dealers to the mechanics to the oil industry. It is in too many peoples vested interest for us not to have this technology. Would you like to save money on something you have grown up thinking is an unaviodable expense? I was going to post something similar to Az's response...it's not that they can't make money selling it, its that they can't make MORE money than the current set-up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 I was going to post something similar to Az's response...it's not that they can't make money selling it, its that they can't make MORE money than the current set-up... A perfect example for why we cant trust the free market to uphold our best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 There are so many industries that would lose money from us buying it that auto makers are being preasured into not making them. OK Kommrad! Whatever!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I was going to post something similar to Az's response...it's not that they can't make money selling it, its that they can't make MORE money than the current set-up... bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Thats the point. There are so many industries that would lose money from us buying it that auto makers are being preasured into not making them. From the auto parts dealers to the mechanics to the oil industry. It is in too many peoples vested interest for us not to have this technology. Would you like to save money on something you have grown up thinking is an unaviodable expense? i don't think you understand how the free market works. if something is cheaper, more efficient, more useful than the existing norm, then people will make a killing producing it to the masses. if the consumer deems it's not as useful for whatever reason, it will fail. electric cars bit it because nobody f*cking wanted one. i'm guessing it had something to do with not being able to go more than 40 miles from your house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 i don't think you understand how the free market works. if something is cheaper, more efficient, more useful than the existing norm, then people will make a killing producing it to the masses. if the consumer deems it's not as useful for whatever reason, it will fail. electric cars bit it because nobody f*cking wanted one. i'm guessing it had something to do with not being able to go more than 40 miles from your house. When released GM wouldnt sell the EV1, they would only lease them. As soon as California repealed the law that was the reason they made the cars in the first place they ended all of the leases on the existing cars. They wouldnt even give the leasees the option to buy out the lease. There were people who had to have them reposessed because they wouldnt give them back. Then they just crushed all of the working, reselable cars. Why? When former owners and advocates of the cars found out what they were doing they found the lot that was holding the last of the vehicles and stood guard to the place trying to get GM just to sell them the cars. They went as far as to present GM with a check for the remaining cars and were refused. Why? Is that a "free" market? I intend for my next car to be electric. The price is comming down, the batteries are living the about 100,000 miles and they can be plugged in at any socket (fill up in the parking garage at work ). I will keep the Montero for road trips but drive the electric to work daily. I see the open sided, little golf carts all the time down here in Florida but I want something I can take on the highway if I need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 They went as far as to present GM with a check for the remaining cars and were refused. Why? Well, if they say a cell phone can give you brain cancer, maybe sitting by that electric motor with those deadly battery's in back posed a health problem. Just one guess, I am sure your 'documentary' covered all that, right? What do I think? I think you want it to be a conspiracy, just like kennedy, just like 9/11. It fuels your disgust and hatred of the gov't. Go to russia already pinko, we get it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) When released GM wouldnt sell the EV1, they would only lease them. As soon as California repealed the law that was the reason they made the cars in the first place they ended all of the leases on the existing cars. They wouldnt even give the leasees the option to buy out the lease. There were people who had to have them reposessed because they wouldnt give them back. Then they just crushed all of the working, reselable cars. Why? When former owners and advocates of the cars found out what they were doing they found the lot that was holding the last of the vehicles and stood guard to the place trying to get GM just to sell them the cars. They went as far as to present GM with a check for the remaining cars and were refused. Why? Is that a "free" market? i haven't researched it, but i can think of a number of possible reasons. once they determined there was no sustainable market for the vehicle, they probably didn't want to pour any more resources into that division. having the cars on the road meant ongoing support and maintenance issues, ongoing legal exposure as far as product liability and such, ongoing brand association, and so on. they only made the car in the first place because of some bogus california law that was overturned. anticipating such an outcome, no doubt, they limited their penetration into that particular business endeavor by only offering leases, so that they could quickly pull out it if they decided they didn't want those ongoing headaches. but i suppose that's too sensible and straightforward, the real reason has to be a corporate conspiracy to make sure their own corporate product failed. but even if GM secretly wanted their own POS electric car to be a miserable failure so that they could throw billions away developing it, if there was really a strong demand for an electric car, some other business out there would be perfectly willing to meet it and get hella-rich in the process. it hasn't happened. again, it might have more to do with the fact that you can't go more than 40 miles from home than it does any corporate conspiracy, but that's just a hunch. Edited July 11, 2007 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 i haven't researched it, but i can think of a number of possible reasons. once they determined there was no sustainable market for the vehicle, they probably didn't want to pour any more resources into that division. having the cars on the road meant ongoing support and maintenance issues, ongoing legal exposure as far as product liability and such, ongoing brand association, and so on. they only made the car in the first place because of some bogus california law that was overturned. anticipating such an outcome, no doubt, they limited their penetration into that particular business endeavor by only offering leases, so that they could quickly pull out it if they decided they didn't want those ongoing headaches. but i suppose that's too sensible and straightforward, the real reason has to be a corporate conspiracy to make sure their own corporate product failed. but even if GM secretly wanted their own POS electric car to be a miserable failure so that they could throw billions away developing it, if there was really a strong demand for an electric car, some other business out there would be perfectly willing to meet it and get hella-rich in the process. it hasn't happened. again, it might have more to do with the fact that you can't go more than 40 miles from home than it does any corporate conspiracy, but that's just a hunch. It has happened and continues to happen. The Tesla is already available, does 0-60 in 4 secs and goes 300 miles/charge and charge into a regular wall plug. Honda and Toyota have EV's that are supposed to come out in a coulpe of years as well. Of course Chevy has an "EV" prototype called the Volt that also uses gas (they are calling there new line E-flex I think) that isnt comming out until 2010. Again, way to be on the cutting edge Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Available EV Buyers guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 The Tesla is already available, does 0-60 in 4 secs and goes 300 miles/charge and charge into a regular wall plug. Honda and Toyota have EV's that are supposed to come out in a coulpe of years as well. How much is the tesla again? And the others are a couple years away? What does this have to do with GM in the 1990's again? You are a complete, and utter moran. Good job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 It has happened and continues to happen. The Tesla is already available, does 0-60 in 4 secs and goes 300 miles/charge and charge into a regular wall plug. Honda and Toyota have EV's that are supposed to come out in a coulpe of years as well. Of course Chevy has an "EV" prototype called the Volt that also uses gas (they are calling there new line E-flex I think) that isnt comming out until 2010. Again, way to be on the cutting edge Detroit. right, they're slowly becoming more viable because the technology (especially battery technology) is getting better. the thing holding them back thus far has largely been their technical limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 One has to ask themselves why two people would jump so fervently forward to attack the points of this movie without seeing it. At least... that's what I ask myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 One has to ask themselves why two people would jump so fervently forward to attack the points of this movie without seeing it. At least... that's what I ask myself. Take yer crazy outta here, thread is full up with it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm74 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I got kind of tired of reading the BS about two many people would be hurt by getting rid of oil run cars. It is a very very weak arguement. I for one would never buy a fully elertonic car... unless it could be recharged in the same amount of time it takes to fill my car presently and with the same amount of distance of a full tank of gas..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 right, they're slowly becoming more viable because the technology (especially battery technology) is getting better. the thing holding them back thus far has largely been their technical limitations. No, no. Clearly the movie says that there is a conspiracy. So there must be one, common sense and logic be dammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 No, no. Clearly the movie says that there is a conspiracy. So there must be one, common sense and logic be dammed. You saw it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) No, no. Clearly DemonKnight says that the movie says that there is a conspiracy. So there must be one, common sense and logic be dammed. You saw it? There. Are you happy? I don't have to see the movie to say that the conspiracy theory that DemonKnight is saying that it proposes is moronic. Edited to add: I did listen to a whole segment on NPR about the movie a while back, and according to them, the movie does imply some grand conspiracy theory. So it's not like I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass or making these grand assumptions about the movie's contents. Edited July 12, 2007 by Dr. Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 One has to ask themselves why three people would jump so fervently forward to attack the points of this movie without seeing it. At least... that's what I ask myself. fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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