Vick vs Brees

[spain]

Who remembers the great Michael Vick vs Drew Brees debate at the Huddle the year these guys were coming out of college? Most people were on the Vick bandwagon. A few of us were solidly in the Brees camp. I hope Big John can pull up those threads. Well, who do yall like now? I just recall the first time that I ever heard Vick speak to a reporter. OMG! He was virtually unintelligble. And this guy was passing college classes? I dont think so. I knew he was an idiot at that time and I questioned his ability to grasp the offensive and defensive schemes at the NFL level. Well, Brees won out and I feel vindicated. Where are all you Vick backers now? Both you and Vick screwed the pooch!

[rajncajn]

Always been a Brees supporter from the get-go, even through his early struggles.

[Randall]

I always liked Brees. I liked Vick early too, but after 2-3 years he just wasn't the next Steve Young.

[Big John]

Such as this

 

edit: Thread you were referring to in this was purged out.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Big John

[Bronco Billy]

Always been a Brees supporter from the get-go, even through his early struggles.

 

It ought to be interesting to see how many Brees backers come out of the woodwork - no particular offense intended to you, rc.

 

Brees was almost universally considered a bust on FF MBs in his first 3 years, and the pimping of Vick was sickening. While I didn't predict Brees' enormous success, I did point out then - like I do with Losman, E Manning, & Alex Smith in the more recent past up to right now - that it often takes QBs 5 years or longer to finally hit their peak in the NFL. No position has a longer learning curve, and the complexities and constant nuances of the game haven't changed that from decades ago.

 

On the other hand, when I watched Vick throw for a putrid 60 yds against an incredibly poor BC passing D in college, and when he couldn't dominate in passing what was then a terrible football conference that the Big East was, it was apparent then that Vick was not capable of being a good pro passer, no matter what kind of training he was going to get in the bigs.

 

Now, would we all like to talk about what a stud Ron Dayne is, or how Lee Suggs is going to tear up the NFL...? How about Addai's hugh bust potential...?

Edited July 18, 2007 by Bronco Billy

[Puddy]

The crazy thing is that the Chargers received Brees and LT2 for Vick

 

 

Unless I'm not remembering the trade correctly.

[Randall]

The Falcons traded their first round pick, the fifth selection in the draft, along with their third round pick in 2001, a second round pick in 2002 and little used Wide Receiver Tim Dwight, who did have some significant impact returning kicks, to the Chargers for the number one pick. The Falcons selected Vick number one. The Chargers used the fifth pick in the first round on perennial All Pro Running Back LaDainian Tomlinson. The Chargers used the third round choice to select DB Tay Cody, who has since been forgotten. Wide Receiver Reche Caldwell was taken by the Chargers with the second round choice in 2002. The Chargers used their own second round pick in 2001, the first choice in that round, to select Brees.

[rajncajn]

It ought to be interesting to see how many Brees backers come out of the woodwork - no particular offense intended to you, rc.

None taken & I agree, but thought I'd document a little history anyway...

 

When someone like Drew Brees rips his team's front office, I tend to think that he's at least somewhat justified. When Brees was at Purdue, he NEVER did anything like that and was held in very high regard as a person. It would seem out of character for him to rip his organization without good reason.

 

I'm not saying that ripping SD's front office was the right thing to do, but it seems to me that thier organization has some serious problems. Their O-line was terrible last year and they didn't draft an O-lineman until the 7th round this year. They passed up on Gallery and took a freaking kicker in the 3rd! What the hell kind of strategy is that? No wonder Eli didn't want to play there... Agree 100%. They were just plain stupid for not taking Gallery IMO. All the talk lately is about how everyone would love to see Rivers make it big & Eli fall flat on his face. Nothing against Rivers or Eli, but I'd love to see Brees go somewhere and burn them all.

 

Agree 100%. They were just plain stupid for not taking Gallery IMO. All the talk lately is about how everyone would love to see Rivers make it big & Eli fall flat on his face. Nothing against Rivers or Eli, but I'd love to see Brees go somewhere and burn them all.

 

...and just as recently as early this season the Chargers were being touted as one of the worst franchises in the league.

[climbingontosoapbox]

The Saints have had two playoff appearances in the past few years & just barely fell short this year. Since then from our division we've had a Superbowl Champion, a Superbowl Runner-up & now a team who I believe will beat Philly in the Conference Championship and make it the third straight year that an NFC South team has made it to the Superbowl. I'd have to say that's some pretty tough competition.

 

Lets just see how well those vaunted Chargers have done since that oh-so-recent Superbowl ass-kicking San Fran laid upon them in 1994

 

1995, 9 - 7

1996, 8 - 8

1997, 4 - 12

1998, 5 - 11

1999, 8 - 8

2000, 1 - 15

2001, 5 - 11

2002, 8 - 8

2003, 4 - 12

 

Yeah, that's something to be proud of for sure.

Look, I like the Chargers. I'm glad they're doing so well. Tomlinson is one of my favorite players & I said all off-season that I thought that Brees was getting a bad rap. I'm a Saints fan so I love the underdog. But don't come in here bashing my team because the coach tried to end the season with a positive attitude for his team and don't come in here bashing my Saints simply because they're down-and-out & think that you're not going to get a big ole cajun boot up your backside...especially when the nouveau riche team you pull for has such a grand and glorious history themselves. [/stepingdownfromsoapbox]

lmao at that old post...but you get the point, even when Brees was looking bad I still thought he was being unfairly judged.

Edited July 18, 2007 by rajncajn

[Puddy]

The Falcons traded their first round pick, the fifth selection in the draft, along with their third round pick in 2001, a second round pick in 2002 and little used Wide Receiver Tim Dwight, who did have some significant impact returning kicks, to the Chargers for the number one pick. The Falcons selected Vick number one. The Chargers used the fifth pick in the first round on perennial All Pro Running Back LaDainian Tomlinson. The Chargers used the third round choice to select DB Tay Cody, who has since been forgotten. Wide Receiver Reche Caldwell was taken by the Chargers with the second round choice in 2002. The Chargers used their own second round pick in 2001, the first choice in that round, to select Brees.

 

Thanks Randall. My memory doesn't always serve me too well.

 

But the point being they ended up with Brees and LT because of the trade. If they kept the pick, the take Vick and wouldn't want Brees in the 2nd.

[rebdog]

Brees obviously has won the debate. But there's a reason we drafted Rivers....because Brees wasn't looking so pretty after three years. I can't say I was his strongest supporter in that third year. I guess if we'd been a little better team at that time he'd still be in SD. I am very glad he's found a great place for himself in New Orleans though.

 

....and anyone looking for Tai Cody can check the roster of the CFL's Hamilton Tiger Cats. You can find many former Charger greats in the CFL such as Trevor Gaylor and Ryan Thelwell.

[Randall]

Thanks Randall. My memory doesn't always serve me too well.

 

But the point being they ended up with Brees and LT because of the trade. If they kept the pick, the take Vick and wouldn't want Brees in the 2nd.

 

 

Mine either. I kept thinking Merriman and Kaeding were part of that trade, but that was the Eli bonanza.

 

Giants received

Rights to 2004 1st Overall Pick - Used to sign quarterback Eli Manning.

 

Chargers received

 

Rights to 2004 4th Overall Pick - Used to sign Quarterback Philip Rivers.

2005 1st Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Linebacker Shawne Merriman.

2004 3rd Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Kicker Nate Kaeding.

2005 5th Round Draft Pick - Traded to Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Left Tackle Roman Oben.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Randall

[Belushi]

I really enjoyed watching Brees in college and I was impressed when he came in to take over for Flutie early on. He just seemed to spark the offence.

 

Can't say I saw much of Vick in college, and I don't watch many Atlanta games so I never really understood the hype. I saw the highlights on ESPN and he looked like a great runner, but his passing stats have always been horrible. When Atlanta was winning, he got all of the credit despite his stats. People would defend him by saying that it's not about the stats-Vick just wins games. Well, when the team around him wasn't as good, he wasn't winning games and he wasn't able to carry the team.

 

This may actually turn into a good thing for Atlanta, since they can go forward with a new QB and not have to build the offence around Vick. Of course, that would be easier if they hadn't traded Schaub, but they did get an excellent deal for him. Looks like they'll be a bottom feeder for a while until they can rebuild at QB (and maybe RB), but in the long run might be a better team for it.

[Bill Swerski]

I've consistently said that Brees and LT were more valuable than Vick, even if Vick managed to live up to some of the hype.

[alexgaddis]

I said Ryan Leaf would be a better QB than Peyton Manning...

[peepinmofo]

I said Ryan Leaf would be a better QB than Peyton Manning...

 

You mean he isnt?

[Hat Trick]

I'm not sure exactly what I said at the time.; I knew Vick had a great arm and could run like no other QB before, but I remember thinking that he wouldn't be that sucessful because he couldn't read a defense and find the open WR. I was in more of a wait and see.

 

Now I do know that I liked what I saw in Brees. I questioned his height and build, but I remember him tearing the Chiefs a new one and I really liked what he did in that game and thought to myself he might actually make it as a starter some day, but I never thought he'd turn into a all pro or anything.

[broncosn05]

Interesting timing.

[hooknladder]

i remember seeing Brees in that cruddy QB challenge show they show every off-season, (you know, running thru the tires and throwing and hitting moving targets, etc....) -it was a couple years ago and Brees won. i don't usually watch that stuff, but i remember thinking -"wow this guy is athletic"

[rebdog]

i'm not sure what everyone thinks they saw in Brees, but again, there was a reason we drafted "the other" Manning and traded him for Rivers.....and i don't recall anyone questioning our reasoning at the time. we essentially spent 1st overall on a QB to replace Brees. i know i didn't have any problem with it at the time given what i'd seen for three years.

 

as for Vick, at the time, i was a little excited thinking that maybe an athletic QB like that was exactly what could spark an offense that didn't have much else. i never was certain about what he'd be in the end because you never know what a person is made of. (i never get tired of media guys like Jim Rome saying what a great guy some athlete is ,who he doesn't know at all, just because the guy spent ten minutes with him on the radio). well, we all know now.