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alexgaddis

Dateline NBC

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Was on again last night...very entertaining to watch these D-bags get what they deserve....

 

but here's my question...are there actually 12 and 13 year old girls that DO invite older men over for sex? I find it hard to believe that it would ever be something other than a sting operation....

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Dateline has stopped reporting varity and now is a one stop shop for online predators.

 

I can't stand that show anymore, how about something else for a change. Really they should consider a name change.

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Dateline has stopped reporting varity and now is a one stop shop for online predators.

 

I can't stand that show anymore, how about something else for a change. Really they should consider a name change.

 

Statutory Date Line?

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Was on again last night...very entertaining to watch these D-bags get what they deserve....

 

but here's my question...are there actually 12 and 13 year old girls that DO invite older men over for sex? I find it hard to believe that it would ever be something other than a sting operation....

 

 

Yes. This happens a lot. More the predator pushes at a kid until they fold and say yes.

 

Go to that perverted justice website and read some of the IMs and email. its scary.

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Yes. This happens a lot. More the predator pushes at a kid until they fold and say yes.

 

Go to that perverted justice website and read some of the IMs and email. its scary.

Aren't those IM's all with Decoys?

 

It is extremely creepy to read nontheless...

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Was on again last night...very entertaining to watch these D-bags get what they deserve....

 

but here's my question...are there actually 12 and 13 year old girls that DO invite older men over for sex? I find it hard to believe that it would ever be something other than a sting operation....

 

i was wondering the same thing. there's so many losers that go through there, i can't imagine that it is the first time for all of them. very scary thought.

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Yes, they do, AG.

 

My sister, when she was 14 or so, was going to meet someone in their late 20s if my mom hadn't overheard her talking about it with a couple friends. She was going to meet someone she met after school at the local mall parking lot. That was just before the internet became popular, so I'm sure a predator could meet one even younger if they play their cards right.

Edited by The Irish Doggy

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Yes, they do, AG.

 

My sister, when she was 14 or so, was going to meet someone in their late 20s if my mom hadn't overheard her talking about it with a couple friends. She was going to meet someone she met after school at the local mall parking lot. That was just before the internet became popular, so I'm sure a predator could meet one even younger if they play their cards right.

 

What the hell?!?!? What did your Mom do about it when she found out?

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What the hell?!?!? What did your Mom do about it when she found out?

 

 

She had a nice long talk with her. Then, as her big brother, I had a nice long talk with her. Nothing more. She got it.

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I watched that show once. While there were certainly some disgusting individuals that got rounded up, I couldn;t help but feel that Datelines tactics weren't exactly above board.

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I watched that show once. While there were certainly some disgusting individuals that got rounded up, I couldn;t help but feel that Datelines tactics weren't exactly above board.

 

I would be interested in hearing more about your view on this matter. So as not to set you up, I don't care if a 12-yr-old girl is promising me the greatest sexual experience of my life, begging me to come to her home, promising anonymity and great fun, and completely initiating the entire interaction--I'm not showing up to have sex with her. I know that having sex with a 12-yr-old is wrong and no rationalization I could come up with would make this right. I could not be set up this way and I'd venture to say that most adults could not be set up in this manner.

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I would be interested in hearing more about your view on this matter. So as not to set you up, I don't care if a 12-yr-old girl is promising me the greatest sexual experience of my life, begging me to come to her home, promising anonymity and great fun, and completely initiating the entire interaction--I'm not showing up to have sex with her. I know that having sex with a 12-yr-old is wrong and no rationalization I could come up with would make this right. I could not be set up this way and I'd venture to say that most adults could not be set up in this manner.

It's not really about whether or not anyone would acquiesce to the requests of a 15 yo girl. If I recall correctly, law enforcement officers are not allowed to "bait" you into breaking tha law. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Maybe someone with a legal education can correct me if I am. But, for example, a cop trying to investigate scalping at a major sporting event is not allowed to go around asking for more than face value for a ticket. He cannot demand $100 for a $50 dollar ticket and then arrest the person who just paid $50 over face value. In this regard, law enforcement is having Dateline do the "baiting" by proxy. Clearly, it makes for good entertainment, and clearly, these people have issues, but I can't believe that this is on the up and up.

 

This is more an issue of law enforcement principle for me than busting somebody who would go to the house of a minor. For you to say "I could never be busted like this" is irrelevant. It's like agreeing to be spied upon by your government because you have no intention of breaking the law

Edited by billay

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I would be interested in hearing more about your view on this matter. So as not to set you up, I don't care if a 12-yr-old girl is promising me the greatest sexual experience of my life, begging me to come to her home, promising anonymity and great fun, and completely initiating the entire interaction--I'm not showing up to have sex with her. I know that having sex with a 12-yr-old is wrong and no rationalization I could come up with would make this right. I could not be set up this way and I'd venture to say that most adults could not be set up in this manner.

 

Hmmm... the only way I can think of that Dateline could be doing something immoral and improper is if they were sending unsolicited requests to people that they knew were trying to get help for their problems.

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I watched that show once. While there were certainly some disgusting individuals that got rounded up, I couldn;t help but feel that Datelines tactics weren't exactly above board.

 

I agree. I'll go so far as to guess some of it is complete fiction. You know, like the other reality shows.

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It's not really about whether or not anyone would acquiesce to the requests of a 15 yo girl. If I recall correctly, law enforcement officers are not allowed to "bait" you into breaking tha law. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Maybe someone with a legal education can correct me if I am. But, for example, a cop trying to investigate scalping at a major sporting event is not allowed to go around asking for more than face value for a ticket. He cannot demand $100 for a $50 dollar ticket and then arrest the person who just paid $50 over face value. In this regard, law enforcement is having Dateline do the "baiting" by proxy. Clearly, it makes for good entertainment, and clearly, these people have issues, but I can't believe that this is on the up and up.

 

This is more an issue of law enforcement principle for me than busting somebody who would go to the house of a minor. For you to say "I could never be busted like this" is irrelevant. It's like agreeing to be spied upon by your government because you have no intention of breaking the law

 

Actually cops are allowed to do this--at least in florida they are. Just last week I saw another transcript between a cop and the defendant. I've seen a few of these transcripts. The conversations are very similar to the ones that you see on Dateline. The guy shows up and he's arrested.

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Actually cops are allowed to do this--at least in florida they are. Just last week I saw another transcript between a cop and the defendant. I've seen a few of these transcripts. The conversations are very similar to the ones that you see on Dateline. The guy shows up and he's arrested.

Perhaps this is something that could vary from state to state then?

 

And even if it's not, can you now see my point outside of the idea that I really want to bang my 12 yo neighbor?

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As per North Carolina Law:

Entrapment is the inducement of a person to commit a criminal offense not contemplated by that person, for the mere purpose of instituting a criminal action against him. State v. Stanley, 288 N.C. 19, 27, 215 S.E.2d 589, 595 (1975). To establish the defense of entrapment, it must be shown that (1) law enforcement officers or their agents engaged in acts of persuasion, trickery or fraud to induce the defendant to commit a crime, and (2) the criminal design originated in the minds of those officials, rather than with the defendant.

I suppose, in the context of the show, by chatting with someone they believe to be underage, law enforcement officials would claim that the defendant had already decided to go through with meeting them in person. But certainly, you can see how asking people over and over (one man I saw on the show had turned the girl down several times to come and see her over a period of several months) to come to the girl's house could be construed as entrapment. If chatting alone was enough to be arrested, then why wasn't he arrested months before? Because then you couldn't capture the look of his face on camera as Stone Phillips (or whoever) comes out from behind the changing curtain.

Edited by billay

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Perhaps this is something that could vary from state to state then?

 

And even if it's not, can you now see my point outside of the idea that I really want to bang my 12 yo neighbor?

 

Dateline has been in a few different states, so I will assume that this is generally the law in most states.

 

If it is perceived this type of "police style" as infringing on rights or some sort of entrapment/baiting, I see your point. However, I have to say that I don't agree with it. I don't agree with it because several times a year, I evaluate sex offenders (both juveniles and adults). This type of police tactic is not going to catch anyone except a sexual offender. Cops are simply frequenting teen age chat rooms, pretending to be young teens. The adult comes to the adolescent chatroom for a reason. Initially, it may be to just chat--but eventually the sex offender gets bolder. That's the pattern.

 

I think this is similar to a cop attempting to buy drugs and then arresting the dealer. I also don't have a problem with this.

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Dateline has been in a few different states, so I will assume that this is generally the law in most states.

 

If it is perceived this type of "police style" as infringing on rights or some sort of entrapment/baiting, I see your point. However, I have to say that I don't agree with it. I don't agree with it because several times a year, I evaluate sex offenders (both juveniles and adults). This type of police tactic is not going to catch anyone except a sexual offender. Cops are simply frequenting teen age chat rooms, pretending to be young teens. The adult comes to the adolescent chatroom for a reason. Initially, it may be to just chat--but eventually the sex offender gets bolder. That's the pattern.

 

I think this is similar to a cop attempting to buy drugs and then arresting the dealer. I also don't have a problem with this.

I might not have such a negative view of the tactic if television weren't involved. It certainly doesn't avoid "even the appearance of impropriety"

Edited by billay

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As per North Carolina Law:

 

I suppose, in the context of the show, by chatting with someone they believe to be underage, law enforcement officials would claim that the defendant had already decided to go through with meeting them in person. But certainly, you can see how asking people over and over (one man I saw on the show had turned the girl down several times to come and see her over a period of several months) to come to the girl's house could be construed as entrapment. If chatting alone was enough to be arrested, then why wasn't he arrested months before? Because then you couldn't capture the look of his face on camera as Stone Phillips (or whoever) comes out from behind the changing curtain.

 

You see the cop as entrapping the offender by asking a man over and over to come to her house. However, the man kept coming back to the same chatroom. Again, the pattern of the sex offender sometimes takes the form of moving in slow steps. Along the way, the offender experiences cognitive distortions that allow him to rationalize his offending behavior. I once evaluated a man who had been molesting his 9-yr-old step daughter for a couple of years. He had convinced himself that he had done nothing wrong because the two of them were in love. He came to see this child as capable of experiencing adult emotions/feelings. He really thought he had done nothing wrong.

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You see the cop as entrapping the offender by asking a man over and over to come to her house. However, the man kept coming back to the same chatroom. Again, the pattern of the sex offender sometimes takes the form of moving in slow steps. Along the way, the offender experiences cognitive distortions that allow him to rationalize his offending behavior. I once evaluated a man who had been molesting his 9-yr-old step daughter for a couple of years. He had convinced himself that he had done nothing wrong because the two of them were in love. He came to see this child as capable of experiencing adult emotions/feelings. He really thought he had done nothing wrong.

But how many men who have been caught on that show have no criminal background and no history of sexually deviant behavior. You can't arrest someone you "think" is going to commit a criminal act, when you have no history on that person. I understand that you see a side of this that not many of us do, but for me it's pretty simple. Talking in a chat room is not cause for arrest. Why? Because they are not arresting these men for chatting (granted, they are being charged with having sexually explicit conversations with a minor) Dateline, or law enforcemnt could find out the identities through internet service providers, but that's not what is happening. The incite these men to come to the house and then they arrest them for the purpose of entertainment. Its a pretty gray area if you ask me.

Edited by billay

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Yes, they do, AG.

 

My sister, when she was 14 or so, was going to meet someone in their late 20s if my mom hadn't overheard her talking about it with a couple friends. She was going to meet someone she met after school at the local mall parking lot. That was just before the internet became popular, so I'm sure a predator could meet one even younger if they play their cards right.

 

My stepdaughter was 12 when she gave our phone number out to a 19 year old kid she met online. I answered the phone one evening and could tell the dude had a deep voice and was much older than her. I asked him where he was from and he said "Ohio". We live in Florida. I asked the dude how old he thought she was. He said that she had told him she was 16. I said "WRONGO!, She's 12 dude!" He apologized and said he'd never call again. He sounded like a good kid. He referred to me as "sir". But it could have easily gone wrong if the wrong person would have gotten our number. I totally chewed her out and gave her the lesson about NEVER EVERGIVING YOUR PHONE NUMBER OUT. I told her some pervert could find out exactly where we live and wait for her one day when nobody's looking and scoop her up. We'd never know how to find her. That scared the sh*t out of her but lesson learned.

 

This TV show makes me want to jump throught the screen and beat the f'k out of these perverts. Sick mofos indeed.

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From wikipedia:

Criticism

Among the more prominent critics of the series has been Brian Montopoli of the CBS News Public Eye blog and formerly of the Columbia Journalism Review. Montopoli argues that although Dateline NBC leaves legal punishment up to police and prosecutors, broadcasting the suspects on national television, in the context of exposing criminal behavior, is already a form of punishment which the media has no right to inflict. Montopoli also suggests that NBC News is more concerned about ratings than actually bringing online predators to justice:

 

“ But NBC is first and foremost a business, and the producers' motives are not simply altruistic. Perhaps I'm being cynical, but I find it telling that this program has been remade and rerun so often. You could argue that NBC is just making sure as many people as possible are aware predators are out there, but is it too much to think that a little thing called "ratings" might play a part as well? ”

 

In May 2007, a former executive producer for Dateline named Marsha Bartel filed a lawsuit against NBC and makes assertions about To Catch a Predator that contradict what the show purports to be about. She comments on the relationship the show has with the different police organizations and the group Perverted Justice.

 

Entrapment claims

Montopoli also suggests that To Catch a Predator may not be as immune from the defense of entrapment as the show claims. Although Perverted Justice volunteers wait for the suspect to initiate contact, Dateline anchor Stone Phillips concedes that "... in many cases, the decoy is the first to bring up the subject of sex." (Phillips defends this, saying that "... once the hook is baited, the fish jump and run with it like you wouldn't believe.") Montopoli contends that this alone may render Predator-related cases vulnerable to the defense of entrapment. This situation, however, would fail the "reasonable person" test of entrapment, as there is no persuasion or coercion involved, but simply an opportunity is offered . Contrary to popular belief, while the Perverted Justice volunteers are not law enforcement, they could be considered "agents" of law enforcement personnel by the courts, and therefore would still be at risk for creating an entrapment defense.

The March 2007 issue of Law Enforcement Magazine, a publication of Officer.com, addressed the entrapment issue from a law enforcement perspective. "Though defendants raised the entrapment issue in Riverside, a judge's ruling later threw it out. The judge ruled it differs from a police officer presenting a handful of drugs to a subject and asking if he wants to buy some. In this scenario, the person's being invited to make a snap decision. In contrast, driving to a meeting location afforded these Internet offenders plenty of time to change their minds." [5] The article continued:

 

“ Even so, Perverted Justice plunks precautions in place to thwart the entrapment issue. Volunteers never initiate contact with the person; all communication begins with the offender. Later, contributors never instigate lewd conversations or talks of sexual meetings. ”

 

To date, however, the claim of entrapment has not been used successfully in a court of law to defend a To Catch a Predator suspect.

Edited by billay

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