Bill Swerski Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As for breaking a record "when on juice." Come on man, you and most people think he took it....but he hasnt failed a drug test and as far as I am concerned until he does I dont care. Another note on that is what about McGwire when he broke the single season record??? No one seemed to care then so why now? Oh, thats right, the mnedia doesnt like Bonds. Everybody knows that McGwire, Sosa, Juan Gonzalez, and a lot of others were on the juice back in the '90s and they're not exactly viewed with the same degree of reverence now. Can you tell me when HGH was against the rule sin MLB? Dont think it was until after all this shyte went down....so no rules broken there. Except for the fact that its possession and sale violate federal laws. As for him being a workout freak...where are you getting your information from? From what I know about working out if he was a workout freak then he would have bulked up sooner. I'm getting my information from the numerous books I've read and the countless baseball games I've watched over the past 25 years. Barry was a stick back in '86 and had significantly more muscle 10 years later (three years before he began using 'roids and HGH). How do you know he weighs more than 220? Barry's listed as 240 on the SF Giants web site, brainiac. Given his height (6'2"), I'd say that he looks like he's closer to 250. Who cares if he was a jerk....that doesnt make him less worthy of breaking a baseball record. Get over it, you dont like the guy fine....but dont let that affect how you look at him. There are plenty of guys in sports that are jerks and that doesnt affect how people look at their accomplishments on the field/court. I agree that Barry's awesome. I think he's the greatest player of my generation and one of the greatest ever. But I'm not going to make excuses for what he's done. but he is at the very least a top 3 all time player....with or without any allegations or use of steroids. Barry's on the same level as Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Willie Mays? And he's had-and-shoulders above Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Lou Gherig, Mickey Mantle, Joe Dimaggio, Stan Musial, Ernie Banks, Rod Carew, Reggie Jackson, Carl Yastrzemski, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Griffey Jr., and A-Rod? Perhaps, but methinks that your frame of reference is off a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Everybody knows that McGwire, Sosa, Juan Gonzalez, and a lot of others were on the juice back in the '90s and they're not exactly viewed with the same degree of reverence now.Except for the fact that its possession and sale violate federal laws. I'm getting my information from the numerous books I've read and the countless baseball games I've watched over the past 25 years. Barry was a stick back in '86 and had significantly more muscle 10 years later (three years before he began using 'roids and HGH). Barry's listed as 240 on the SF Giants web site, brainiac. Given his height (6'2"), I'd say that he looks like he's closer to 250. I agree that Barry's awesome. I think he's the greatest player of my generation and one of the greatest ever. But I'm not going to make excuses for what he's done. Barry's on the same level as Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Willie Mays? And he's had-and-shoulders above Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Lou Gherig, Mickey Mantle, Joe Dimaggio, Stan Musial, Ernie Banks, Rod Carew, Reggie Jackson, Carl Yastrzemski, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Griffey Jr., and A-Rod? Perhaps, but methinks that your frame of reference is off a little. All good info here. And I love the "HGH/steroids, etc. isn't against the rules argument"...so if it is against federal law, you still need to make provisions for it in your rules? OK, you guys can't be committing murder or doing cocaine or anything like that...cause if it isn't in the rules, it is ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) Barry's on the same level as Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Willie Mays? And he's had-and-shoulders above Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Lou Gherig, Mickey Mantle, Joe Dimaggio, Stan Musial, Ernie Banks, Rod Carew, Reggie Jackson, Carl Yastrzemski, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Griffey Jr., and A-Rod? Perhaps, but methinks that your frame of reference is off a little. Uh, yeah. Barry has 7 MVP awards. SEVEN. How many do the guys in your 2nd tier group have combined? He is 43 and his OBP is .493. In the prime of his career A-Rod's is .411. Bonds is unquestionably the most feared hitter that has ever played the game. By the time A-Rod's career is over, he'll move up to the top tier that includes Ruth, Mays, Bonds, and Aaron. So, yes to both of your questions up there. Edited August 20, 2007 by Cyclones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Uh, yeah. Barry has 7 MVP awards. SEVEN. How many do the guys in your 2nd tier group have combined? He is 43 and his OBP is .493. In the prime of his career A-Rod's is .411. Bonds is unquestionably the most feared hitter that has ever played the game. By the time A-Rod's career is over, he'll move up to the top tier that includes Ruth, Mays, Bonds, and Aaron. So, yes to both of your questions up there. So by your analysis and using Bonds as an example, ARod will be in the prime of his career in 10 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 So by your analysis and using Bonds as an example, ARod will be in the prime of his career in 10 years or so. Bonds is way past his prime, he has sported OBPs well over .500 (and even over .600 one year) in the past. I'm saying that well removed from his prime, he is still as feared as A-Rod at the plate even though A-Rod is right in his prime. Now A-Rod is a phenomenal athlete, there's no reason to think he can't keep up what he is currently doing for another 6-8 years. My main point there was that yes, Bonds clearly belongs in that elite company with Ruth et al, and yes, he is head and shoulders above the tier 2 group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Uh, yeah. Barry has 7 MVP awards. SEVEN. How many do the guys in your 2nd tier group have combined? He is 43 and his OBP is .493. In the prime of his career A-Rod's is .411. Bonds is unquestionably the most feared hitter that has ever played the game. By the time A-Rod's career is over, he'll move up to the top tier that includes Ruth, Mays, Bonds, and Aaron. So, yes to both of your questions up there. Um, yeah, and FOUR of those MVPs were obtained after he began juicing. I'd love to see what Ruth, Mays, Williams, Mantle, Musial, and Aaron's numbers would've been like if they had steroids, HGH, personal trainers, top-notch workout programs, and double-lacquered maple bats at their disposal. Geez, Frank Thomas was as good a hitter as pre-steroid Barry. Edited August 23, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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