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UAW vs. Japan

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This makes me sick , and I'm sure the old timers are rolling over in their graves.

While Nissan, Honda and Toyota all earned more than $1,00 on average per vehicle produced in North America, Ford lost an average of $5,234, while GM lost $1,436 and Chrysler lost $1,072.

 

The union has lost more than 60,000 members to company buyouts in the last two years. In May, Daimler-Chrysler actually paid a private equity firm to take struggling Chrysler off its hands.

 

Things are so bad, nobody calls them the Big Three anymore.

 

"They're the Detroit Three," says Sean McAlinden, an economist with an auto industry think tank. "Let's face it, Toyota is the No. 2 seller of cars in the United States."

 

A damn shame , the way things are now. America , at one time was the benchmark for excellence in automobile making. Then the reputation went nosediving into the toilet in the 80's, as the companys cut corners any way they could and generally produced crap cars in order to salvage some of their shrinking bottom line.

The U.S. product now is back to an even field with the foreign auto producers IMO, but the reputation still hasn't changed, why?

 

While there are many factors involved with this decline, I think our own eagerness to abandon the big 3 and buy foreign cars is prime, it is also self serving and shortsighted IMO.

 

Hope you Toyonda owners are proud , another nail in the box of American tradition and heritage.

 

I can't wait to read the replys of how Ford, Chevy and Dodge suck so bad and the foreign guys are so great... let er rip..foreign car lovin momos.

 

:D

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GM is selling more cars now than they ever have. Look it up. The problem is that their profitability is bad, and the UAW bears somewhere between some and most of the blame for that. The new contract talks with the domestic automakers start soon, and we'll soon see how those turn out.

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Lee Iacocca is working on a book where he brings this up. He mentioned that Detroit used to be the arsenal of democracy when the government needed engines of war in World War II, Detroit answered the call.

 

"Last year the heads of GM, Ford, and Chrysler tried to meet with the president for months, and the White House kept canceling. Bush had time to meet with the winner of "American Idol", but he couldn't squeeze in the leaders of the auto industry. By the time Bush finally gave the CEOs 45 minutes in late 2006, their agenda was pretty serious. The Big Three asked for help in three crucial areas that require government cooperation; the trade imbalance - especially Japan's manipulation of the yen and its closed markets; the health-care crisis, for which the car companies bear an unfair burden; and the need to develop alternate fuels such as ethanol."

 

"When America needed the Big Three to be its arsenal of democracy, Detroit came through. Now, when Detroit asks the government to be its partner in revival, the White House gives it 45 minutes."

 

I thought it was interesting anyway.

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You guys really crack me up? Unions killed the industry? Contributed, sure but when CEOs are being given raises in the wake of poor company performance you simply ignore that fact in order to be disengenuos.

 

What's even funnier is the 'have my cake and eat it too - WAH!' attitude of acknowledging that the decision to incorporate planned obsolescence into cars to make more money selling parts in the 80's blew up in their face while their competition put out a car that could hit 250,000 miles with little more than oil changes, brake and tire replacements and timing belt fixes. But it's the customer's fault if they want to invest into something with a solid track record, instead of a tarnished one? Boo f'ing hoo.

 

The simple fact is Japanese culture operates differently than ours. I'm willing to bet not many people would go in on Saturdays and work for free on these boards.

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Hope you Toyonda owners are proud , another nail in the box of American tradition and heritage.

I've got a 1994 Toyota Tercel (their entry level car at the time) and it has served me very very well. When I went to buy a second car a few years ago, I got a Camry and it has also served me very well.

 

The Big 3 just doesn't understand that the plurality of American car buyers just want a solidly-built, dependable car. Watch their commercials and you will see they are trying to sell their products on glitz, whistles and bells. They don't seem to realize that people like me don't get our self-esteem from our cars, we simply use them to drive us from place to place.

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unions have killed the us auto industry

 

Somewhere there is a thread where a Huddler....... that was Pro Union because of his Dad........got a job on an assembly line and was shocked by all the breaks and other Union stuff that goes on during the day..........said he was surprised if he worked a couple hours straight and it changed his mind about Unions..........sounded like they spent more time gettin outta work then layin it down all day..........

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unions have killed the us auto industry

 

 

Yep. and our steel industry too.

yes and no but u to are 2 stupid to explain it 2

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Somewhere there is a thread where a Huddler....... that was Pro Union because of his Dad........got a job on an assembly line and was shocked by all the breaks and other Union stuff that goes on during the day..........said he was surprised if he worked a couple hours straight and it changed his mind about Unions..........sounded like they spent more time gettin outta work then layin it down all day..........

 

When I was working mine only got 2 10 minute breaks in 8 hours. We also got a 25 minute lunch which was unpaid.

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unions have killed the us auto industry

 

LMFAO!!! Nafta and other unfair trade agreements killed the auto industry. Granted the UAW got too greedy and complacent in recent years (job bank for instance) but have woken up to the big threes needs to stay competitive in a global market. Look at the concessions Delphi granted...yet their chief CEO's still get multi-million dollars bonuses while filing for bankruptcy!! Its corporate greed, union greed and apathy by the federal government that has led to the decline of the auto industry. We are all equally to blame!

 

I'm a UAW official and I just returned from Stuttgart yesterday on a fact-finding mission. The "real" union over there is actually called the "Works Council". There is another body, which is the union, but they only deal with national issues. Together with management, the works council and the union form what is called the supervisory board. Ron Gettlefinger has one of these seats on the board. They seem to be able to work out their differences without having to go to court or arbitration (Yes is does happen but is rare). This spirit of cooperation is what’s needed in the States.

 

Now don't get me wrong...the union was needed and actually did a lot of good for workers when they had no say and were treated like Sega! in the past... but the past is the past and if we don’t learn how to be competitive in a global market the middle class is doomed. Might as well move to Mexico.

 

The HUGE issue that could go a long way to fixing our troubles is health care! It costs the auto industry billions upon billions of dollars because of privatization. We need a single payer health care system and we need it now!!! It would alleviate so many problems! I'm not a socialist so stop the flames...LOL! But I see it as the only way through this. It is a very complex issue and I could type for weeks on its ramifications. Hillary tried wade through it and was overwhelmed by it complexity. It is not an easy task.

 

Ok, enough of my ranting. I'm a member of the UAW and proud of it but I'm not a radical. We need to learn to live in a spirit of cooperation with management. After all...if the plants close because the union is unwilling to compromise, all the strikes and picketing in the world won't help if you are marching in front of a closed plant! :D

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LMFAO!!! Nafta and other unfair trade agreements killed the auto industry. Granted the UAW got too greedy and complacent in recent years (job bank for instance) but have woken up to the big threes needs to stay competitive in a global market. Look at the concessions Delphi granted...yet their chief CEO's still get multi-million dollars bonuses while filing for bankruptcy!! Its corporate greed, union greed and apathy by the federal government that has led to the decline of the auto industry. We are all equally to blame!

 

I'm a UAW official and I just returned from Stuttgart yesterday on a fact-finding mission. The "real" union over there is actually called the "Works Council". There is another body, which is the union, but they only deal with national issues. Together with management, the works council and the union form what is called the supervisory board. Ron Gettlefinger has one of these seats on the board. They seem to be able to work out their differences without having to go to court or arbitration (Yes is does happen but is rare). This spirit of cooperation is what’s needed in the States.

 

Now don't get me wrong...the union was needed and actually did a lot of good for workers when they had no say and were treated like Sega! in the past... but the past is the past and if we don’t learn how to be competitive in a global market the middle class is doomed. Might as well move to Mexico.

 

The HUGE issue that could go a long way to fixing our troubles is health care! It costs the auto industry billions upon billions of dollars because of privatization. We need a single payer health care system and we need it now!!! It would alleviate so many problems! I'm not a socialist so stop the flames...LOL! But I see it as the only way through this. It is a very complex issue and I could type for weeks on its ramifications. Hillary tried wade through it and was overwhelmed by it complexity. It is not an easy task.

 

Ok, enough of my ranting. I'm a member of the UAW and proud of it but I'm not a radical. We need to learn to live in a spirit of cooperation with management. After all...if the plants close because the union is unwilling to compromise, all the strikes and picketing in the world won't help if you are marching in front of a closed plant! :D

 

 

I semi agree with this. unions are not the only problem but they are a problem. back in its day the union was useful and needed.and in reality is needed now if done correctly.but as far as I can tell all a union does right now is keep useless people from getting fired.

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When I was working mine only got 2 10 minute breaks in 8 hours. We also got a 25 minute lunch which was unpaid.

 

That's what i expected to hear.........figured production dudes were workin there azz's off no matter what.........

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I semi agree with this. unions are not the only problem but they are a problem. back in its day the union was useful and needed.and in reality is needed now if done correctly.but as far as I can tell all a union does right now is keep useless people from getting fired.

 

 

You are correct about having to protect useless people. I'm bound by law to treat each due paying constituent the same...even if my ashtray could do a better job! :D I don’t like it but I have too. Sometimes...just sometimes you can really help a good, productive worker through a problem. This is why I do this thankless job. 90% of your time is spent on 10% of you people...the lazy whining biatches who you just want to tell rvsp and do your job!!! :D Its that one person that is truly getting fricked that you can help which makes it all worthwhile! :tup:

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You are correct about having to protect useless people. I'm bound by law to treat each due paying constituent the same...even if my ashtray could do a better job! :D I don’t like it but I have too. Sometimes...just sometimes you can really help a good, productive worker through a problem. This is why I do this thankless job. 90% of your time is spent on 10% of you people...the lazy whining biatches who you just want to tell rvsp and do your job!!! :D Its that one person that is truly getting fricked that you can help which makes it all worthwhile! :tup:

 

 

Yeah..it is a catch 22 with just about everything in todays world. I must also say it is a rarity to get a objective view from someone who works from 1 side of the aisle as you do.keep up the good work.

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I've got a 1994 Toyota Tercel (their entry level car at the time) and it has served me very very well. When I went to buy a second car a few years ago, I got a Camry and it has also served me very well.

 

The Big 3 just doesn't understand that the plurality of American car buyers just want a solidly-built, dependable car. Watch their commercials and you will see they are trying to sell their products on glitz, whistles and bells. They don't seem to realize that people like me don't get our self-esteem from our cars, we simply use them to drive us from place to place.

My 2003 Malibu is all about the bling.

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It's quite possible that unions are bad for the auto industry.

 

Right now from what I've heard, the unions understand the crunch that is happening, and their request is that whatever cuts they give to the union workers, they also give to the executives and management. It's a tough time for the auto industry... and everyone knows it, but don't cut the unions salary by 5% and give yourself a million dollar bonus for being so savvy about it. That doesn't sounds unreasonable.

 

When I think of an American car, I think of a disgustingly large vehicle with a huge loud engine. When I think of a zipperhead car, I think of a small car with an incredibly efficient quiet engine that will run for 300K. And that's exactly what the advertising from US car makers tells me to think. All I see are truck and SUV commercials from the US automakers. I don't want one.

 

I know US companies make small efficient vehicles, but they all look like an afterthought piece of crap. Put a Ford Focus or a Saturn Ion next to a Honda or a Hyundai and it's a damn easy choice. To their credit, Chevy is making some nice small cars, but I had a buddy who drove Chevy sedans from 1991 to 1997 (his family knew the dealer), and they were all pieces of crap. It takes a while to lose that reputation.

 

Can I buy a Mazda and call it even? They are kinda hybrid US/Japan, aren't they?

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Yeah..it is a catch 22 with just about everything in todays world. I must also say it is a rarity to get a objective view from someone who works from 1 side of the aisle as you do.keep up the good work.

 

 

Thanks Doc. Its nice to see that someone realizes we are not all lazy scum!! :D

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Just for the record, I deal in prototype diesel engines...not autos.

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The simple fact is Japanese culture operates differently than ours. I'm willing to bet not many people would go in on Saturdays and work for free on these boards.

 

It is Saturday and I am here. I have been working all day. It doesn't make a change in my paycheck. I make the average Japanese worker look as productive as Peyton Manning's back-up. I just thought I should say something for America and all... :D

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It is Saturday and I am here. I have been working all day. It doesn't make a change in my paycheck. I make the average Japanese worker look like Peyton Manning's back-up. I just thought I should say something for America and all... :D

 

 

:D

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You guys really crack me up? Unions killed the industry? Contributed, sure but when CEOs are being given raises in the wake of poor company performance you simply ignore that fact in order to be disengenuos.

 

What's even funnier is the 'have my cake and eat it too - WAH!' attitude of acknowledging that the decision to incorporate planned obsolescence into cars to make more money selling parts in the 80's blew up in their face while their competition put out a car that could hit 250,000 miles with little more than oil changes, brake and tire replacements and timing belt fixes. But it's the customer's fault if they want to invest into something with a solid track record, instead of a tarnished one? Boo f'ing hoo.

 

The simple fact is Japanese culture operates differently than ours. I'm willing to bet not many people would go in on Saturdays and work for free on these boards.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.... When American cars are as reliable as my Honda is then i will buy one. But right now they aren't in the same ballpark IMO...

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When I think of an American car, I think of a disgustingly large vehicle with a huge loud engine. When I think of a zipperhead car, I think of a small car with an incredibly efficient quiet engine that will run for 300K. And that's exactly what the advertising from US car makers tells me to think. All I see are truck and SUV commercials from the US automakers. I don't want one.

 

Right - part of Chrysler's problem (and the Big 3 in general) is that their profits were centered around the very lucrative truck/SUV market. $3 gas that isn't going down anytime soon has made people re-trench on that issue, and go towards dependable, smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles - which Japan has been providing for years. Japan was also ahead of the curve on hybrids.

 

It's becoming cliche to say about American business to say that instead of anticipating the customers' needs and producing what fits them, they tend to try to make the customers want what they are producing, whether they need it or not. At least that has been the auto industry model for some time - it's similar to the 70s, when the Japanese automakers first made major inroads into the US market - people wanted Honda GLCs, but Detroit was making Chrysler Cordobas and Chevy Suburbans.

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