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drbob

Three way tie for final playoff spot

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3 teams are tied at 6-7 for the final wild card slot.

 

Our rules stateplayoff seeds will be determined as follows:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Tiebreakers involving 3 or more teams -- When a team is eliminated the tiebreaker process starts again from the start.

 

win loss total

head to head(2 teams tied)

best overall record against the tied teams (3 or more tied)

total points for season

higher point total head to head

highest margin of season's victory point total (including all other teams)

higher point total from week13,week12

coin flip

 

Team 1 loses to both team 2 and team 3 for 0-2 record among tied teams but has highest point total for the season among the 3 teams.

Team 2 defeats team 1 and splits with team 3 for a 2-1 record among tied teams and has second highest point total among the 3 teams.

Team 3 defeats team 1 and splits with team 2 for a 2-1 record among tied teams and has the lowest point total among the 3 teams.

 

Does Team 1 get in with the highest points or is Team 1 eliminated in the best record among tied teams? (thus placing team 2 in the playoffs)

Edited by drbob

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team 1 is eliminated as that is a higher tiebreaker

 

Then team 2 gets the slot as h2h is tied, then goes to points.

Edited by Big John

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It depends on whether or not your league rules allow for partial eliminations. If not then the total points team wins as there is no clear cut winner when considering record amount tied teams.

 

If your league allows for partial eliminations team 1 is eliminated because their H2H record among tied teams is clearly the worst. Then revert back to H2H with the two remaining teams. If they split H2H then total points between the two and team 2 wins.

Edited by Grits and Shins

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I'm curious about 3 or more teams being tied as well. I thought it seemed obvious but now I'm not so sure. Our rules are that first tie-break is h2h record then points. So my thinking is that unless one team defeated all three other teams (in this case we have 4 teams that are tied), then we must move to total points. However, the commish thought it would be the best h2h record amongst the four teams - for instance, I went 2-1 as did another owner, the other two teams went 1-2, the commishes thinking is that since I beat the other 2-1 guy I get the 3 seed. However, I'm thinking that since neither of us went 3-0 against the other tied teams then we should go straight to overall points for the tiebreak (which would still give me the 3 seed but may affect the other tied teams). Anyone have any input on this?

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I'm curious about 3 or more teams being tied as well. I thought it seemed obvious but now I'm not so sure. Our rules are that first tie-break is h2h record then points. So my thinking is that unless one team defeated all three other teams (in this case we have 4 teams that are tied), then we must move to total points. However, the commish thought it would be the best h2h record amongst the four teams - for instance, I went 2-1 as did another owner, the other two teams went 1-2, the commishes thinking is that since I beat the other 2-1 guy I get the 3 seed. However, I'm thinking that since neither of us went 3-0 against the other tied teams then we should go straight to overall points for the tiebreak (which would still give me the 3 seed but may affect the other tied teams). Anyone have any input on this?

 

It depends on how your rules are written.

 

Some leagues require a clear cut H2H winner amoung tied teams.

Other leagues break the tie using best winning percentage amount tied teams.

 

I'm in leagues that do it both ways.

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to carify:

 

tiebreakers:

 

win loss total

head to head(2 teams tied)

best overall record against the tied teams (3 or more tied)

total points for season

higher point total head to head

highest margin of season's victory point total (including all other teams)

higher point total from week13,week12

coin flip

 

Bolded part is the first to apply for the 3-way. Two teams are tied for the best record so both advance to the next tiebreaker and team 1 is eliminated.

 

Reverts to the start and the first tie situation to be broken is total points.

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It depends on how your rules are written.

 

Some leagues require a clear cut H2H winner amoung tied teams.

Other leagues break the tie using best winning percentage amount tied teams.

 

I'm in leagues that do it both ways.

Well that doesn't help :wacko:

 

Seriously though, our team rules aren't really written in this 'friend' league. The only thing that was stated was that the first tie break would be h2h followed by total points. I can see it both ways now that I think about it and being co-commish I'm really wanting to do what's fairest for the league so we can set a good precedent.

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Well that doesn't help :wacko:

 

Seriously though, our team rules aren't really written in this 'friend' league. The only thing that was stated was that the first tie break would be h2h followed by total points. I can see it both ways now that I think about it and being co-commish I'm really wanting to do what's fairest for the league so we can set a good precedent.

 

Both methods are 'fair'. I'd say because your rules aren't clear on which way to interpret the application of H2H that you should use total points.

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Both methods are 'fair'. I'd say because your rules aren't clear on which way to interpret the application of H2H that you should use total points.

I agree - that makes the most sense to me as well. Thanks for your input :wacko:

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I am sure I did the partial elimination last year to determine seeding. Unfortunately it's my local and not a BOTH league so communications were on the MFL message board and are not there any more. So I can not go back there to show precedent.

 

Another thought on a 3 way tie; what if the records were

 

Team 1 3-1 (1-1 vs 2, 2-0 vs 3)

Team 2 2-2 (1-1 vs 1, 1-1 vs 3)

Team 3 1-3 (0-2 vs 1, 1-1 vs 2)

 

Does Team 1 advance as a clear winner? Or do I eliminate the bottom team and do a two way tie breaker?

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I am sure I did the partial elimination last year to determine seeding. Unfortunately it's my local and not a BOTH league so communications were on the MFL message board and are not there any more. So I can not go back there to show precedent.

 

Another thought on a 3 way tie; what if the records were

 

Team 1 3-1 (1-1 vs 2, 2-0 vs 3)

Team 2 2-2 (1-1 vs 1, 1-1 vs 3)

Team 3 1-3 (0-2 vs 1, 1-1 vs 2)

 

Does Team 1 advance as a clear winner? Or do I eliminate the bottom team and do a two way tie breaker?

In that case, team 1 is the outright winner with the highest win percentage and is untied there.

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I'd say team 1 is screwed in that scenario because it only played the other 2 teams once each...while team 2 and 3 played each other twice. In that scenario, which it sounds like a wildcard spot....should come down to the team with the most points scored for the year...that's the fairest way since the amount of H2H is different...

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I am sure I did the partial elimination last year to determine seeding. Unfortunately it's my local and not a BOTH league so communications were on the MFL message board and are not there any more. So I can not go back there to show precedent.

 

Why can't you go back and look? I know MFL purges non-essential data from older leagues, but I think there is a good chance your 2007 league messsage board is still intact. Have you actually looked or are you just assuming it's not there?

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Going back to the original question, I read that that it's not partial elimination first, then go from there. If there's no winner on a rule, you drop to the next rule. Team with the most points goes. Can be seen both ways I guess, but to me the tiebreak is to decide the spot, not eliminate someone.

 

In our league, on 3 or more way ties, we dropped the head to head as a tiebreaker - goes to total points first. If 3 teams were tied for two spots, top points would go, then the 2 way tiebreaker would be used for the next two teams (where it's head to head first)

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anyone know how I'd break down a 3-way tie where I need two playoff teams?...I currently have it set up like this

 

tie breakers: 1st is H2H and 2nd is total points...

 

Team A beat teams B and C, but also lost to team B giving himself a 2-1 record amongst the three (this one likely has the top seed out of the 3) and also has the highest total points scored between the three.

 

Team B split the season series with team A and lost to team C in their only game with one another and also has the 2nd most points scored between the two. Team B's record between the two teams is 1-2

 

Team C is 1-1 between the two teams and has the lowest total points scored between the three...

 

should I go by what their records were amongst the three or skip right to the total points scored?...

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anyone know how I'd break down a 3-way tie where I need two playoff teams?...I currently have it set up like this

 

tie breakers: 1st is H2H and 2nd is total points...

 

Team A beat teams B and C, but also lost to team B giving himself a 2-1 record amongst the three (this one likely has the top seed out of the 3) and also has the highest total points scored between the three.

 

Team B split the season series with team A and lost to team C in their only game with one another and also has the 2nd most points scored between the two. Team B's record between the two teams is 1-2

 

Team C is 1-1 between the two teams and has the lowest total points scored between the three...

 

should I go by what their records were amongst the three or skip right to the total points scored?...

This is why I don't like the H2H tiebreaker with more than 2 teams involved.

 

But the way the rule is written, Team A would win the first tiebreaker, then Team C would get the other tiebreaker based on 2-way H2H after team A was advanced out of the tiebreakers.

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Every year I send out an e-mail several weeks prior to the play-offs reminding everyone how it goes so there'll be no mistake when it comes down to it. In my league, in situations where there's 3 or more teams tied for 1 or more spots, we go through the tiebreaker not until one team is eliminated, but until one team wins the tie-break. Then, if there's a 2nd spot on the line, the remaining teams are evaluated starting at the 1st tie-break.

 

This is absolutely something that needs to be made clear long before it comes down to it. Both our way, and doing it the opposite (where you follow the tie-break until one team is eliminated from the play-offs) are 100% valid. It is simply a matter of preference. None the less, it has huge implications.

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This is why I don't like the H2H tiebreaker with more than 2 teams involved.

 

But the way the rule is written, Team A would win the first tiebreaker, then Team C would get the other tiebreaker based on 2-way H2H after team A was advanced out of the tiebreakers.

 

 

the fact that Team B at least beat Team A and Team C didn't, makes me hate that....

 

we still have one more week before the playoffs, but it looks like it will just get worse...

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the fact that Team B at least beat Team A and Team C didn't, makes me hate that....

 

we still have one more week before the playoffs, but it looks like it will just get worse...

On the other hand, team B doesn't have a limb to stand on. The fact that he beat team A means nothing unless you're comparing him to team A. Your situation seems somewhat clear cut since Team A obviously has the best record among the 3 and Team B not only has the worst combined but also lost H2H with C.

 

If H2H is the the most important tie break in your league, then there's simply no way to see this otherwise.

 

The funny thing is that, in my new league I set up the rules and took H2H completely out of the tie break. The top 3 seeds are W/L (with total points being 1st tie break) and the 4th is the team with the highest points of the remaining. Way more fair but not as fun to think about down the stretch. There's no crazy situations unlike my other league...

 

...Where we've been doing it the same for years and is very much H2H (something I've tried to change, not the least of which is because waiver order is determined by W/L then total points, so scoring a lot may never help you but costs you a spot in line at waivers, I digress).

 

Because of the more complicated system, we have all these crazy permutations. Not the least of which is that I clinch with a win by me or by another team or a loss by a 3rd. In short, if I lose and team B loses, and team c wins, I end up in a 3 way tie for the last two spots. Team C would go ahead of both me and team B and team B has me beat by virtue of 20 H2H. On the other hand, if it's just between me and team C, I have him beat 2-0 and that would be the case provided team B wins and avoids the tie. Of course, team C is a game behind us both, so he has to win and I have to lose to even get to that point. None the less, it's sort a fun puzzle. :wacko:

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This is why I don't like the H2H tiebreaker with more than 2 teams involved.

 

But the way the rule is written, Team A would win the first tiebreaker, then Team C would get the other tiebreaker based on 2-way H2H after team A was advanced out of the tiebreakers.

 

I came to the same conclusion, but via a different route, as it could be argued that by using h2h Team B was eliminated by having the worst h2h record of the 3.

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Why can't you go back and look? I know MFL purges non-essential data from older leagues, but I think there is a good chance your 2007 league messsage board is still intact. Have you actually looked or are you just assuming it's not there?

 

 

I did go back and look and the message boards for last year were gone.

 

It's a lesson learned and the tie breaker will be better defined so that this won't happen again.

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I did go back and look and the message boards for last year were gone.

 

It's a lesson learned and the tie breaker will be better defined so that this won't happen again.

 

Strange. I just went back and looked at a league from 2005 and the message board is still there.

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