NBA PLAYOFFS

[godtomsatan]

I think the NBA is a half-step above WWE as a whole, but that game last night was one of the more incredible spectacles I've ever watched. Fantastic finish.

[Ursa Majoris]

I didn't say what he did wasn't wrong, I just say there's not a chance he'll be suspended.

If Brad Miller catches up with him, Rondo will be suspended in traction for six months.

[Sleeping King]

Can we get Mr. Miyagi to fix Garnett's knee. What a great series but I fear the worst vs Orlando. Perkins/Davis guarding Howard is not going to work. Perk is too slow and Davis is too short. Hopefully Rondo can keep it up.

[wildcat2334]

game 7 letdown, pretty mediocre game on both sides - but the C's did enough to pull out the W, Chi seemed out of sync all night

 

a great rd 1 series between two teams that are evenly matched, and unfortunately very mediocre. If the C's were out west they would be one and done

 

Minus KG the C's just aren't very good I think Orlando takes them out in 5 or 6

[darin3]

I think the NBA is a half-step above WWE as a whole, but that game last night was one of the more incredible spectacles I've ever watched. Fantastic finish.

I won't bite, if this is in fact a situation... if not, then I don't think there's anything I can say.

 

With my work schedule, I haven't been able to really watch a game start-to-finish. I did catch the vast majority of the Hawks' dispensing of the Heat (napped in the middle ) and think the Hawks could actually make some noise here, especially if their offense is firing on all cylinders.

[Azazello1313]

man, I think I already said it in this thread, but houston is a pretty scary team for a friggin 5 seed. now they steal homecourt from the lakers. I'm starting to love yao ming the more I watch him. dude is just so big, he can really control a game on both ends just by being there. they match up well with the lakers (artest AND battier to throw at kobe, and yao versus their bigs), we'll see what happens but they are in good shape.

 

and how much does the east suck with garnett gone? orlando goes way up on the celts, the celts come back but fall short. it's tough for both teams to disappoint and look vulnerable, but that's kinda what I saw tonight (but man, dwight howard is a stud). I don't see cleveland having a challenge until the finals, and there I see them losing. I just think the teams in the west are much stronger this year.

[Sleeping King]

Howard is a great player, however I'm surprised at how little he gets the ball down the stretch. When the Celtics were mounting the comeback I don't recall him ever even getting a shot attempt. Defensively he is out of this world though.

[KevinL]

man, I think I already said it in this thread, but houston is a pretty scary team for a friggin 5 seed. now they steal homecourt from the lakers. I'm starting to love yao ming the more I watch him. dude is just so big, he can really control a game on both ends just by being there. they match up well with the lakers (artest AND battier to throw at kobe, and yao versus their bigs), we'll see what happens but they are in good shape.

 

and how much does the east suck with garnett gone? orlando goes way up on the celts, the celts come back but fall short. it's tough for both teams to disappoint and look vulnerable, but that's kinda what I saw tonight (but man, dwight howard is a stud). I don't see cleveland having a challenge until the finals, and there I see them losing. I just think the teams in the west are much stronger this year.

 

You realize the Cavs went 26-4 against the west this year?

 

Losses:

11/1 at New Orleans

1/19 at LA Lakers (missing Ilgauskas & D West)

2/8 vs LA Lakers (missing D West)

2/26 at Houston

 

Go ahead and say the Lakers or Rockets are good (they are). But to say the Cavs will lose because the teams in the west are much stronger is ridiculous.

Edited May 6, 2009 by KevinL

[wildcat2334]

You realize the Cavs went 26-4 against the west this year?

 

Losses:

11/1 at New Orleans

1/19 at LA Lakers (missing Ilgauskas & D West)

2/8 vs LA Lakers (missing D West)

2/26 at Houston

 

Go ahead and say the Lakers or Rockets are good (they are). But to say the Cavs will lose because the teams in the west are much stronger is ridiculous.

 

 

 

I know you Cleveland guys can be defensive but cmon my man. His point was simply the West as a conference is much stronger than the East- which it is by a freaking MILE - AND he had Cle losing in the finals - comprendo?

 

I personally think the Cavs have a great shot at the title but the East still is weak as a whole.

 

Denver is looking s-c-a-r-y and is gonna be a tough out for Hou or LA

[Azazello1313]

You realize the Cavs went 26-4 against the west this year?

 

Losses:

11/1 at New Orleans

1/19 at LA Lakers (missing Ilgauskas & D West)

2/8 vs LA Lakers (missing D West)

2/26 at Houston

 

Go ahead and say the Lakers or Rockets are good (they are). But to say the Cavs will lose because the teams in the west are much stronger is ridiculous.

 

the teams in the west are GOOD. top to bottom. all 8 teams that made the playoffs bring something to the table that presents a serious challenge to any other team in the NBA. the east has cleveland, no doubt a great team, a crippled celtics team, an inexperienced and vulnerable orlando team, and then a bunch of teams that wouldn't have even had a sniff of the playoffs if they were out west.

 

my point was, whoever makes it out of the west is going to be battle tested, with their team game in high gear. with the power vaccum behind the cavs right now, I think cleveland is going to waltz through to the finals, and THEN have to deal with a team that is significantly tougher than the other teams they dispatched. I haven't done any research to correlate this, but to me it seems like history has favored the team coming out of the stronger conference in situations like that in the past.

[Ursa Majoris]

the teams in the west are GOOD. top to bottom.

If you mean the eight playoff teams, I'm right there with you. If you mean the entire conference, I can, sadly, tell you you're wrong.

[KevinL]

I know you Cleveland guys can be defensive but cmon my man. His point was simply the West as a conference is much stronger than the East- which it is by a freaking MILE - AND he had Cle losing in the finals - comprendo?

 

I personally think the Cavs have a great shot at the title but the East still is weak as a whole.

 

Denver is looking s-c-a-r-y and is gonna be a tough out for Hou or LA

 

No, it wasn't 2 separate points, it was 2 related points (as he describes below), that the Cavs would lose BECAUSE the West is stronger.

 

the teams in the west are GOOD. top to bottom. all 8 teams that made the playoffs bring something to the table that presents a serious challenge to any other team in the NBA. the east has cleveland, no doubt a great team, a crippled celtics team, an inexperienced and vulnerable orlando team, and then a bunch of teams that wouldn't have even had a sniff of the playoffs if they were out west.

 

my point was, whoever makes it out of the west is going to be battle tested, with their team game in high gear. with the power vaccum behind the cavs right now, I think cleveland is going to waltz through to the finals, and THEN have to deal with a team that is significantly tougher than the other teams they dispatched. I haven't done any research to correlate this, but to me it seems like history has favored the team coming out of the stronger conference in situations like that in the past.

 

Let's not forget that there were 4 teams this year with 59+ wins, and 3 of them were in the East.

 

Boston (9) and Orlando (8) also lost fewer than 10 games against the West. Atlanta lost 13 against the West. Compare this to the number of games the West teams lost to the East: LA (9), Denver (11), Houston (12), Dallas (9), and you will see that among the remaining 8 playoff teams, (other than Cleveland), there is not much difference in their record agains the other conference.

 

Now if you want to say that 4-9, the West is better, that's an argument that I will agree with.

 

But it remains to be seen if these "tougher" match-ups will strengthen the West's eventual champion, or wear them out. The Cavs were supposed to be rusty last night against Atlanta, right?

 

The Cavs right now are the only team still playing that has been to at least the 2nd round in each of the last 4 seasons. They played in the Finals 2 years ago (admittedly with a much different team). They have been tested and they are focused.

 

And as far as "history favoring the team from the stronger conference", for the last 6 seasons, the Finals champ has alternated between West and East (SAS - DET - SAS - MIA - SAS - BOS) ... so unless the strenght of conference has been shifting back and forth each season, this argument really can't be supported.

[KevinL]

The Cavs right now are the only team still playing that has been to at least the 2nd round in each of the last 4 seasons.

 

Wow, I heard that somewhere and decided to check. It's actually only 2 years!

 

Cleveland - 2008 East semi loser, 2007 finals loser, 2006 East semi loser

Boston - 2008 champ, 2007 - no playoffs.

Orlando - 2008 East semi loser, 2007 1st round loser

Atlanta - 2008 1st round loser, 2007 no playoffs

 

Lakers - 2008 finals loser, 2007 1st round loser

Denver - 2008 1st round loser, 2007 1st round loser

Houston - 2008 1st round loser, 2007 1st round loser

Dallas - 2008 1st round loser, 2007 1st round loser

[SheikYerbuti]

Howard is a great player, however I'm surprised at how little he gets the ball down the stretch. When the Celtics were mounting the comeback I don't recall him ever even getting a shot attempt. Defensively he is out of this world though.

 

Unfortunately due to his FT%, the Hack-a-Howard would be very effective against him in a close game down the stretch.

[Azazello1313]

No, it wasn't 2 separate points, it was 2 related points (as he describes below), that the Cavs would lose BECAUSE the West is stronger.

 

 

 

Let's not forget that there were 4 teams this year with 59+ wins, and 3 of them were in the East.

 

Boston (9) and Orlando (8) also lost fewer than 10 games against the West. Atlanta lost 13 against the West. Compare this to the number of games the West teams lost to the East: LA (9), Denver (11), Houston (12), Dallas (9), and you will see that among the remaining 8 playoff teams, (other than Cleveland), there is not much difference in their record agains the other conference.

 

Now if you want to say that 4-9, the West is better, that's an argument that I will agree with.

 

But it remains to be seen if these "tougher" match-ups will strengthen the West's eventual champion, or wear them out. The Cavs were supposed to be rusty last night against Atlanta, right?

 

The Cavs right now are the only team still playing that has been to at least the 2nd round in each of the last 4 seasons. They played in the Finals 2 years ago (admittedly with a much different team). They have been tested and they are focused.

 

And as far as "history favoring the team from the stronger conference", for the last 6 seasons, the Finals champ has alternated between West and East (SAS - DET - SAS - MIA - SAS - BOS) ... so unless the strenght of conference has been shifting back and forth each season, this argument really can't be supported.

 

first of all, I think you need to stop being so defensive about this

 

a big reason why there are 3 teams in the east with 59 wins is that they get to play the rest of the eastern conference, which is obviously weaker than the west after those top 3 teams.

 

all I'm saying is that there's not another strong team in the eastern playoffs this year. the celtics clearly would be if they had KG, but they don't. orlando looks to me like a good regular season team that just can't raise their level much in the playoffs. maybe I'm wrong, but that is how they appear to me. in the past, most years, it seems like you had to beat at least one really good team to get out of the east. this year, that just doesn't appear to be the case IMO. I see cleveland having an easy path. contrast that with the west, where whoever comes out alive is going to have just wrestled a tiger and won. or 3 tigers. I just see that as being more condusive to winning in the finals than the relatively easy path I see for cleveland. that's all. you don't have to agree, really.

[KevinL]

first of all, I think you need to stop being so defensive about this

 

a big reason why there are 3 teams in the east with 59 wins is that they get to play the rest of the eastern conference, which is obviously weaker than the west after those top 3 teams.

 

all I'm saying is that there's not another strong team in the eastern playoffs this year. the celtics clearly would be if they had KG, but they don't. orlando looks to me like a good regular season team that just can't raise their level much in the playoffs. maybe I'm wrong, but that is how they appear to me. in the past, most years, it seems like you had to beat at least one really good team to get out of the east. this year, that just doesn't appear to be the case IMO. I see cleveland having an easy path. contrast that with the west, where whoever comes out alive is going to have just wrestled a tiger and won. or 3 tigers. I just see that as being more condusive to winning in the finals than the relatively easy path I see for cleveland. that's all. you don't have to agree, really.

 

First of all, I think you need to look for some stats to back up your argument

 

The East is not "obviously weaker" at all. In fact, the East was 231-219 against the West.

 

Sacramento went 1-29 against the East! How is the west stronger if Sacramento could go 16-36 against the West and only 1-29 against the East?

Edited May 6, 2009 by KevinL

[KevinL]

The East is not "obviously weaker" at all. In fact, the East was 231-219 against the West.

 

This isn't some hypothetical thing like college football, where Ohio State plays Washington State, Texas plays Minnesota, and then we argue whether the Big Ten or Big 12 is the stronger conference. The East and West played 450 games!

 

The East won more, but not alot more. I see no argument that the West is stronger.

 

As I said before, the West is deeper as far as playoff teams go, but the bottom of the West propped up the West W/L records as much if not more than the bottom of the East.

 

There were 7 teams with less than 30 wins. 6 were in the West.

[Azazello1313]

First of all, I think you need to look for some stats to back up your argument

 

The East is not "obviously weaker" at all. In fact, the East was 231-219 against the West.

 

Sacramento went 1-29 against the East! How is the west stronger if Sacramento could go 16-36 against the West and only 1-29 against the East?

 

I thought it was pretty obvious I was talking about the playoffs. the 8 teams in each conference that made it, and the 4 remaining. where the magic don't appear as strong as they did in the regular season, and the champs' regular season record is basically irrelevant with them missing their best player. leaving only the cavs as a truly formidable playoff team on that side of the bracket. I keep making this argument, and you keep ignoring it to focus on some other inane, irrelevant point, like how many playoff series the cavs have won in the last 4 years. right now, I think any of the 4 teams in the west would stand a better than 50/50 shot against 3 out of the 4 teams in the east in a 7 game series. I happen to think that level of competition bodes well for the western conference champ in the finals. if I am wrong, the near future will say so, but citing more irrelevant statistics isn't going to prove me wrong.

[wildcat2334]

First of all, I think you need to look for some stats to back up your argument

 

The East is not "obviously weaker" at all. In fact, the East was 231-219 against the West.

 

Sacramento went 1-29 against the East! How is the west stronger if Sacramento could go 16-36 against the West and only 1-29 against the East?

 

 

who gives a F about Sac are they a playoff team?? do we really need to compare who is worse, Sac or Wash - jeebus

 

the West is much stronger 1-8. period end of story.

 

Now does that matter once the Cavs get to the finals?? not much IMO - although Hou/LAL has 7 written all over it, I think Cle has an excellent shot to take the title.

 

Cleveland, the most tortured sports city in America just might get off the schnide this year...................

 

I hope they get it done bc I love everything about Bron and the rust belt could use it

[Gopher]

I also happen to like Cleveland's chances this year, but let's get real... Overall, the playoff teams in the West are better than the East. I agree with the sentiment that "numbers don't lie." Unfortunatley, though, the problem with the 231-219 statistic is that it is somewhat skewed because of how bad teams 10-15 are in the West... The East only had one team win less than 30 games this year (Washington), while the West had six teams do so. So, if you ask me, it's pretty clear that teams 4-9 are FAR superior in the West, while the East has better bottom-dwellers (10-15). The West had a team with 46 wins miss the playoffs (Phoenix was 46-36), while the East had three teams at .500 or worse MAKE IT IN to the playoffs, including an absolutely BRUTAL Detroit team at 39-42. So, I guess you CAN say that the East is better as a whole (or at least more balanced), but for the sake of who is more "battle-tested" in the playoffs, I really could care less whether Washington is better or worse than Sac, Minny, or Golden State.

 

A decade or so ago, Detroit pretty much put an end to the argument that the West was the far superior conference... I don't think that's what anyone here is trying to say. This year in particular, though, I think the West is much deeper, as far as the eight playoff teams are concerned. As it stands right now, we've got the Lakers, Nuggets, and Rockets all with legitimate chances to make it to the Finals. Going into the playoffs, I don't think anyone could say, with absolute certainty, that Dallas, Portland, or San Antonio were going to be easy outs, although the Blazers and Spurs certainly didn't live up to many expectations. That makes six teams in the West that are either playing at the top of their game, or were popular picks to do some damage going into the playoffs. In the East, you've got Cleveland and.... I really don't see anybody giving them a challenge. Maybe Orlando, but history shows us that it's fairly unlikely that a team with as little post-season experience as they have will go very far. Boston beat a .500 Chicago team (BARELY) to advance to the second round, and Atlanta beat a Miami team that, to be honest, is a year away from being the laughingstock of the league. They're still pretty bad, but managed to squeak into the playoffs only because of Wade's MVP-like season, during which he had to carry the rest of the team on his back.

 

Like I said, though, I like Cleveland's chances... Lebron has matured a lot this year, and has turned into an all-around great player (his improvements on defense have probably impressed me most). What they need to be careful of is that they are almost in the same situation that the Lakers were last year... fairly easy road to the Finals, but assuming they get there, they'll almost certainly face a much more battle-tested squad, whether it be L.A., Houston, or Denver. Sometimes, coasting through the first three rounds can be detrimental in the sense that said team can be caught off-guard once they meet a tougher opponent. I think the Lakers getting handled in last year's Finals had as much to do with them being unprepared as it did them being outplayed.

 

Regardless, I have to admit that my interest in this year's playoffs is peaking... Going into it, I felt like it was destined to be a Kobe-Lebron showdown in the Finals. And, although that might be a great matchup for potentially seven games, it just doesn't excite me for some reason. The way Houston and Denver are playing recently, though, has caught my attention. The rest of this LA-Houston series, as well as the next round in the West, should be absolute battles. I guess, in a way, it's kind of like the NFL in that sometimes I look forward to the matchups between teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, New England, Indy, etc. more than the Super Bowl itself.

 

Edit: I realized that it wasn't even close to being a "decade" since Detroit swept L.A. in 2004. But, I still maintain that it was the series that put a definitive end to the argument that the West was the far superior conference. After the Bulls' reign of terror in the 90's, the West had gone on a run of five straight championships (including three straight by the Lakers, sandwiched between wins by the Spurs in '99 and '03). The Pistons stopped that streak dead in its tracks in '04, sweeping the Lakers "All-Star" team, which featured Shaq, Kobe, and free agent acquisitions Gary Payton and Karl Malone. The East went on to take two out of three when the unlikely Heat won it all in 2006.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Gopher

[Ursa Majoris]

Wow, I heard that somewhere and decided to check. It's actually only 2 years!

 

Cleveland - 2008 East semi loser, 2007 finals loser, 2006 East semi loser

I make that three.

[Clubfoothead]

Well I'm not rooting for LA, Houston or Denver so guess that makes me a Cavs man this year. I think Denver would have the best chance of the three against Cleveland.

[KevinL]

I make that three.

Yeah I wasn't clear ... Cleveland HAS made it 3 years (4 now) ... all other teams have missed the 2nd round in either 08 or 07. So I guess it is 4?

[chiefjay]

I guess Rajon Rondo has some talent but why is he such a terd? I turned the game on only for a minute yesterday and he flopped twice in that minute and why does he feel the need to save time on an in bound pass by not touching the ball right away?

 

Strange dude.

[Ursa Majoris]

Watching a few minutes of Lebron J last night convinces me that if he stays injury-free, the title is Cleveland's to lose. I know it was only Atlanta but James' size, acceleration, awareness and skill are just.......well, phenomenal.