Stephen Jackson for Calvin Johnson (Trade)

[BIGBOY08]

I am currently being offered Calvin Johnson for Stephen Jackson. Should I make this trade based on my team. (6pts per TD, 1-10yds rushing and rec)

Edited August 24, 2009 by BIGBOY08

[Shorttynaz]

Tough call.. You're already a little weak at RB and this would make it worse.. Although you would have a SICK set of WR's..

[mrip]

I wouldn't do it. You'll be destroyed at RB if you make this trade.

[BIGBOY08]

T.O., Moss and Megatron would be one force no one in my league would want a part of. This trade makes sense to me if LenDale can produce like he did last year and Ray Rice lives up to his hype and produces. I know Jamal is getting older but I think last years production from him TD (4) wise is not going to happen this year. I'm expecting 1000yds and 7-10 TD's from Jamal.

 

I wouldn't do it. You'll be destroyed at RB if you make this trade.

[NOSaint]

I agree with everyone else. It would leave you with an extremely thin RB corp and the trade itself in my eyes is almost a wash although I may slightly favor Johnson. Jackson's rushing schedule is as easy as it gets tho. Not enough there in my opinion there to warrant doing it.

[The Wolf]

I have to ask this question...is it a dynasty or a redraft? it would change my opinion if known.

[Bree22]

no you do not have any RBs to trade and your WRs are not that bad. What you would lose in RBs out weight what you gain at WR.

[BIGBOY08]

Thewolf...It's a redraft league.

 

I've got other deals on the table.

 

Jamal Lewis for Kevin Walter

Jamal Lewis for Dustin Keller

 

Would either of these make sense. I dont feel that my running back situation is all that bad. I will agree that I dont have the sexy pics but in a 12 man league with 20 rosters spots and drafting 7th you either end up with great WR's or Great RB's. Assuming my team stays healthy my tough bye weeks are 7,8,9. Before and after that I have no more than 1 person missing due to byes.

 

I have to ask this question...is it a dynasty or a redraft? it would change my opinion if known.

[BIGBOY08]

Re-visiting this trade and would like additional thoughts. I feel like having Calvin,Moss and T.O. is super sick! My RB's are not Tier 1 guys but I feel like I have enough depth to get it done weekly considering who I'll have at WR. At that point I could sell Ginn Jr. or Coles (or both) for another decent RB.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Thewolf...It's a redraft league.

 

I've got other deals on the table.

 

Jamal Lewis for Kevin Walter

Jamal Lewis for Dustin Keller

 

Would either of these make sense. I dont feel that my running back situation is all that bad. I will agree that I dont have the sexy pics but in a 12 man league with 20 rosters spots and drafting 7th you either end up with great WR's or Great RB's. Assuming my team stays healthy my tough bye weeks are 7,8,9. Before and after that I have no more than 1 person missing due to byes.

[femmefootball]

I think that you'd be way too weak at RB, at least this early, without knowing how your other RBs will perform. Think about it : What if Rice doesn't live up to the hype? You're left with LenDale White who's splitting carries with Chris Johnson. It's a bad idea to leave yourself that thin there, and you already have Moss and TO - that's a pretty good pair of core receivers.

[jaxfactor]

A resounding "hell no" from me. Why are you trying to trade RBs? You need to keep what you have at the RB position.

[BIGBOY08]

Yes that's very true. My thing is that I have Rice and McGahee..someone in Baltimore will have to run the ball considering they had 591 rushing attempts this year. I feel like Lendale will play the same role he had last year and this league is 6pts per TD and 1point per 10 rushing and Rec. I'm working on obtaining B.Wells or J. Stewart for Ginn and Coles and at that point I feel this is a no brainer.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

I think that you'd be way too weak at RB, at least this early, without knowing how your other RBs will perform. Think about it : What if Rice doesn't live up to the hype? You're left with LenDale White who's splitting carries with Chris Johnson. It's a bad idea to leave yourself that thin there, and you already have Moss and TO - that's a pretty good pair of core receivers.

[Jackass]

if you wanted CJ that badly why didn't you just draft him ahead of SJax?

[BIGBOY08]

Ok Jaxfactor what is your reasoning for saying no. I have a WT and WR spot I could still use with Coles, Ginn Jr or say a Jamal Lewis, Maroney, McGahee. Stephen Jackson is good but no way in hell he outproduces Megatron and Coles and Ginn Jr. I could see it if I were giving up those two as well. Considering I made the trade I would be able to pick and choose from Ginn Jr. Coles, J. Lewis, Maroney and McGahee who started in the W/T or W/R spot each week. Yeah i wont have a Tier 1 RB but unless were saying LenDale and Ray Rice and Jamal Lewis are complete flops this year I dont see how this doesn't improve my team. I'm trying to take advantage of having WR depth and more WR spots than RB in my starting line-up. Max RB spots in any given week is only 3. Max WR spots in any given week is 5. Why not have 5 good ones? Call me crazy but Baltimore ran the ball 591 times last year. I would start McGahee and Rice depending on who they're playing on some weeks.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Assuming I made the trade my team would be...

 

Ben Roethlisberger or Carson Palmer

R. Moss

Calvin Johnson

T.O.

Ray Rice

LenDale White

Heath Miller

Tedd Ginn Jr. or L. Coles

Jamal Lewis or L. Coles (Possibly Maroney or McGahee)

 

Robbie Gould

 

New England "D"

 

 

 

A resounding "hell no" from me. Why are you trying to trade RBs? You need to keep what you have at the RB position.

[BIGBOY08]

Because I didn't have a crystal ball to tell me I could get Moss and Calvin on the same team or I would have. I took SJax with the 7th pick in the 1st Rd. and took R. Moss in Rd. 2 on the way back down.

 

if you wanted CJ that badly why didn't you just draft him ahead of SJax?

[femmefootball]

I think what "jackass" is trying to say is that at the pick you picked SJax, you still had the choice of Calvin Johnson. If Calvin Johnson is the better value, in your opinion, why would you draft SJax first? It doesn't matter what WR or RB you get after - at that early pick, if Johnson is better, you should have picked him.

 

But odds are you didn't because the conventional wisdom says that top tier RBs are worth more than top tier WRs, esp if you're not in a PPR league. Looking at the stats from last year, in my league, Johnson outscored an injured SJax on a team that had a terrible year by only 50 pts. That's not a lot of difference, certainly within year-to-year varation, and seeing as you'd be leaving your RB position in the hands of Jamal Lewis (who people are saying might get replaced by his backups already) LenDale White (who splits with a fantastic RB who just might get more of the share this year after his great season last year) and Ray Rice (who while I think will shine, might not), it just doesn't seem worth it. But that's my opinion - if you really, really, really like Johnson over SJax, then do it. It's your team, after all

[Big Country]

Do you get PPR?

 

if you wanted CJ that badly why didn't you just draft him ahead of SJax?

 

This.

 

Because I didn't have a crystal ball to tell me I could get Moss and Calvin on the same team or I would have. I took SJax with the 7th pick in the 1st Rd. and took R. Moss in Rd. 2 on the way back down.

 

Flawed logic. See femme's post quoted below. Are you trying to tell us that somehow Calvin Johnson magically became more valuable because you were able to get Moss later on?

 

I think what "jackass" is trying to say is that at the pick you picked SJax, you still had the choice of Calvin Johnson. If Calvin Johnson is the better value, in your opinion, why would you draft SJax first? It doesn't matter what WR or RB you get after - at that early pick, if Johnson is better, you should have picked him.

 

Exactly.

 

 

Now, has something happened since you drafted that would make you think CJ now has more value to you than SJax, or is this just a case of you wanting to make a move for the sake of making a move?

[BIGBOY08]

Let me say this one more time. I'm no fool to take Calvin with the 7th overall pick. I took Stephen Jackson only due to him being the best player on the board and not knowing how others would draft after me! Had I known Randy Moss was going to last as long as he did I would have grabbed Calvin. Let's say I take Calvin at number 7 like an idiot and Randy is drafted late in RD 1....odds are Stephen is gone as well. Im screwed because Randy has better value than Calvin. Andre Johnson and Fitz were both taken before Moss. No way in hell would I take either over Randy Moss. He's flat out the the best WR with the BEST QB in the NFL. Now that I have Moss on my team due to what I say was poor drafting why would I not add Megatron. I cant seem to understand why you would value having or getting all these great RB's when you can only play a max of 3 on any given week. Name me 3 RB's I could have possibly drafted in the 7 (of 12) spot that will outplay......Randy, Calvin,T.O. Coles and Ginn Jr without ending up with WR's and QB's that are garbage......Dont worry I'll wait! There are 5 freakin WR spots that can be played on any given week. Unless were saying Stephen Jackson is going for 1500+yds and 15+ TD's I dont see the logic of keeping him vs. upgrading to what I consider a border line Tier 1 WR. There are only 2-3 teams that have 3 solid RB's that could compete with 5 solid WR's. The team I would be trading Sjax to would become the team with the strongest RB's(AP, Sjax McFadden and Felix). 4 studs but he can only play 3. Points on the bench dont mean poopy! Then at WR he's left with C. Henry, Hester, Burleson and Harvin. Those WR's are not any better than my Rice/McGahee, Lewis and LenDale White. I'll take my team to that war all day long with confidence! If things dont shake out I still have plenty of WR's to toss around to get a mediocre back to help out and I'll still have Moss and Megatron worse case scenario.

 

Do you get PPR?

 

 

 

This.

 

 

 

Flawed logic. See femme's post quoted below. Are you trying to tell us that somehow Calvin Johnson magically became more valuable because you were able to get Moss later on?

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

Now, has something happened since you drafted that would make you think CJ now has more value to you than SJax, or is this just a case of you wanting to make a move for the sake of making a move?

[BIGBOY08]

Yes top tier RB's are valued higher than Top Tier WR if you can get 3 solid one's (tier 1 and 2) in my leagues format. Not happening in a league of 12 drafting 7th with knowlegable people unless they're aquired via trade. Had I drafted 1-3 we wouldn't be having this conversation. Every pick made essentially does determine the value and who you take next. Pick 12 would be nuts to take 2RB's in our line-up format and scoring with his 1st two picks. He would essentially be getting no more than 2 top 10-12 RB when he could get at worst a Tier 1 and Tier 2 WR and make due with whatever RB's fall his way. In an 8 or 10 man league the strategy changes. If you have 5 WR spots why would you not find 2-3 decent RB's and then put 5 solid WR's in each week. RB's on my bench do me no good.

 

Jamal Lewis...I can get James Davis for peanuts (In this trade if need be)

 

Ray Rice....I have his counterpart (McGahee)

 

LenDale....why would his role change all of a sudden this year after the success they had the year before. Not to mention he's 30lbs lighter which to me means he should receive more than just GL carries.

 

I think what "jackass" is trying to say is that at the pick you picked SJax, you still had the choice of Calvin Johnson. If Calvin Johnson is the better value, in your opinion, why would you draft SJax first? It doesn't matter what WR or RB you get after - at that early pick, if Johnson is better, you should have picked him.

 

But odds are you didn't because the conventional wisdom says that top tier RBs are worth more than top tier WRs, esp if you're not in a PPR league. Looking at the stats from last year, in my league, Johnson outscored an injured SJax on a team that had a terrible year by only 50 pts. That's not a lot of difference, certainly within year-to-year varation, and seeing as you'd be leaving your RB position in the hands of Jamal Lewis (who people are saying might get replaced by his backups already) LenDale White (who splits with a fantastic RB who just might get more of the share this year after his great season last year) and Ray Rice (who while I think will shine, might not), it just doesn't seem worth it. But that's my opinion - if you really, really, really like Johnson over SJax, then do it. It's your team, after all

[LayLow]

I am having problems understanding your logic. When I draft, I take the players I want, not just "the next best guy on my list". If you didn't love/like Jackson...You don't bring me flowers...ANYMORE! are you doing taking him? Obviously if you were sleepwalk-drafting using someone else's rankings as your guide, you missed out on one of the main objectives of fantasy football drafting....DRAFT A TEAM YOU LIKE/LOVE/FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. You have to watch these guys week in and week out...why draft Jackson 1st round if a day later you trade him for someone you could have taken over him in the draft?

 

Unless you can get Calvin+Upside Runningback for S jacks...this is moronic.

Edited September 1, 2009 by LayLow

[BIGBOY08]

Call it what you wanna call it....the deals been done and I'll keep you guys posted. I have yet to hear anyone mention that Sjax is about the most injury prone RB in the league. That's why all your off the wall reasoning concerns me! I received James Davis to sure up my Cleveland RB situation as well. Worse case scenario this is a wash but im taking that gamble.

 

Drafting names doesn't equate to pts. I draft based on value in my leagues settings and scoring. Sorry Laylow but I thought the objective of FF was to win the damn thing. A team that makes me all mushy inside means nothing! This was a win win for both teams in this trade. A RB heavy team gets another solid RB. A WR heavy team gets a solid WR. After all I do have 5 WR spots in my starting line-up! To say this is moronic tells me you must not be a veteran at FF. Besides any good FF player knows a little luck is involved in making it to the top. I'v rolled the dice!

 

I'll sit back and watch the trade offers pile up now that I'm king of the hill at WR!

 

Good luck to all!

 

I am having problems understanding your logic. When I draft, I take the players I want, not just "the next best guy on my list". If you didn't love/like Jackson...You don't bring me flowers...ANYMORE! are you doing taking him? Obviously if you were sleepwalk-drafting using someone else's rankings as your guide, you missed out on one of the main objectives of fantasy football drafting....DRAFT A TEAM YOU LIKE/LOVE/FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. You have to watch these guys week in and week out...why draft Jackson 1st round if a day later you trade him for someone you could have taken over him in the draft?

 

Unless you can get Calvin+Upside Runningback for S jacks...this is moronic.

[Big Country]

Drafting names doesn't equate to pts. I draft based on value in my leagues settings and scoring.

 

Your actions (drafting Jackson) and your posts (saying you draft value and that the value was at WR) do not equate.

 

I ask again, what magically changed the value of SJax compared to any WR just because you got Moss in the 2nd?

[tazinib1]

So exactly why did you ask for any advice? Just kinda curious.

[BIGBOY08]

Was hoping somone would offer some sound advice with facts, stats etc....Simplehell no's and your weak at RB do me no good without any justification. Just a bunch of opinions tossed around if there's nothing factual to back it up.

 

It's a done deal now.

 

So exactly why did you ask for any advice? Just kinda curious.

[BIGBOY08]

Sure they do......simply put...Although I drafted Sjax high im not sold on his ability to stay healthy in an offense that doesn't have that many weapons. Avery is nice but he's about all they have outside of SJax. He's expected to see 300+ carries this year. I'll roll the dice on him not being healthy the entire year for a guy the caliber of MEGATRON! Calvin did what he did last year with an injured Kevin Smith in and out of line-up and no true Number 2. They now have Northcutt, Bryant Johnson, B. Pettigrew and a healthy Kevin Smith to take the pressure off of defenses keying in on him. I like his potential no matter who's at QB between Stafford or Culpepper. (Culpepper prefferably). Not too mention there's a new OC in in town that happened to be the OC for Moss and Culpepper in Minn. These are the things I consider when making a move like this. There's more to it than Hell no and you have weak RB's. No mentioning of trading WR's or anything to get a mediocre RB to offset the loss of Stephen if he blows up. To me this is research you do when you're competitive! JMO!

 

So you ask what has changed Sjax value...The fact that I was able to land Ray Rice for Chris Henry and Burleson..The fact that I have LenDale who is a TD machine and I play in a TD driven league. The fact that I have McGahee and Jamal Lewis on my bench and Jamals hancuff...Sjax is expendable at that point for a Tier 1 WR. Let me say it again....I have 5 WR spots and can only play 3 RB's. Cuts out the stress of start/bench on a weekly basis.

 

Your actions (drafting Jackson) and your posts (saying you draft value and that the value was at WR) do not equate.

 

I ask again, what magically changed the value of SJax compared to any WR just because you got Moss in the 2nd?