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Islam and Waco


Duchess Jack
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When I am worknig in my shop or office - I like to have a documentary of some sort running in the background. It keeps me learning and does not typically demand my complete attention. I do this through netfilx on my PC or 360

 

I caught two documentaries yesterday that really surprised me.

 

The first was Isam: What the West Needs to Know

netflix link

 

I fully expected this to be a documentary made by Islam apologists. Its not that I wanted to listen to somebody defend Islam - I just figured there was benefit to learn a little more about it.

 

Nope. It was a documentary on the dangerous and warlike and lying nature of Islam. It was very educational. I am always cautious of propiganda pieces - but it was one of those things that if even half of it was true - than it is still super eye opening. I reccomend it to others.

 

The second documentary I watched was Waco: Rules of Engagement.

netflix link

 

 

I watech this because I am facinated by cults. Its similar to my facination with gangs (first season of Gangland was interesting). I wanted to understand more and was completely blindsided by this one. I don't want to give too much away - but I don't know what to think now about the whole Waco thing. Seems like there was a crazy, crazy amount of misinformation with this situation. Another situation where if even half of it was true - then my perceptions on what all went on in the compound and during the siege was way way way more wrong than it was right. It kind of pulled the rug out from under me.

 

I reccomend both to people who like to shake things up and those who have a strong opinion one way or the other on either of these issues.

 

in closing - I didn't get as much done yesterday as I had hoped to.

Edited by Duchess Jack
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If the american people knew the truth about Waco, well, they'd sit on their hands and do nothing...

 

I'll only say this - 82 men, wimmens and children were murdered by stublefrack tax agents over suspected non-payment of a $200 tax. How much sense does that make?

 

:D

 

I read it more along the lines of: religious extremists known for sexual abuse and misconduct (Koresh had sex with minors, and during the seige absolved all marriages within the compound and the women were only allowed to sleep with him) and the stockpiling of illegal weapons were approached with a legally obtained warrant and resulted in an exchange of fire (surely what innocent people do when approached with a warrant), which resulted in the death of 86 people including 4 federal agents and 82 members of Koresh's followers.

 

You say potato, I say potahto. :wacko:

Edited by Hugh 0ne
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If the american people knew the truth about Waco, well, they'd sit on their hands and do nothing...

 

I'll only say this - 82 men, wimmens and children were murdered by stublefrack tax agents over suspected non-payment of a $200 tax. How much sense does that make?

 

 

 

That's ridiculous. I lived in Austin at the time, and have seen the doc in question.

 

You just threw the 4 dead ATF agents who were gunned down in cold blood serving a legitimate warrant that precipitated the entire stand off.

 

Well done! :wacko:

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OK, if the problem was really a crank lab and child molestation - why were stumblefack tax agents the initial agency performing a raid? Was there any evidence of that other than one CI? The local sheriff had been to the compound many times and Koresh could have been picked up in town various times in the two weeks prior to the raid.

 

Secondly, why did these said tax agents (that's what F-troop is, a TAX AGENCY) start firing at an unarmed Koresh while holding his daughter from the get-go? Again, the local sheriff had been out to the compound many times peacefully and could have hauled Koresh in before the raid.

 

You can try to justify the storm-troopers actions all you want, but the premises don't make a lick of sense. It was a heavy-handed storm-trooper publicity raid gone bad.

 

You ever owe the gov't $200 tax? Hell, they oughtta just burn you out then.

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If the american people knew the truth about Waco, well, they'd sit on their hands and do nothing...

 

I'll only say this - 82 men, wimmens and children were murdered by stublefrack tax agents over suspected non-payment of a $200 tax. How much sense does that make?

remember ruby ridge :wacko:

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As I said - I am cool with it being a propaganda piece - but if even half of it was true, then there are serious questions. There were experts that seemed to have zero invested in the situation that had the ATF/FBI shooting people seemingly at random. There were documents and videos lost. There were phone calls recorded between negotiators and Koresh where the negotiators were clearly - and lying about idiotic issues and being caught in their lies. Koresh also seemed pretty calm and reasonable in these calls. Pope - you mentioned having seen it. What did you think?

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As I said - I am cool with it being a propaganda piece - but if even half of it was true, then there are serious questions. There were experts that seemed to have zero invested in the situation that had the ATF/FBI shooting people seemingly at random. There were documents and videos lost. There were phone calls recorded between negotiators and Koresh where the negotiators were clearly - and lying about idiotic issues and being caught in their lies. Koresh also seemed pretty calm and reasonable in these calls. Pope - you mentioned having seen it. What did you think?

 

 

I think the overhead infrared footage, if authentic, backs up most of what you say. In any situation like that, some of the other stuff is probably explained away by true cock ups involving large numbers of people under larger amounts of stress. WV is playing fast and loose with the facts though, excluding all mention of automatic weapons charges, which I find pretty sad.

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I think the overhead infrared footage, if authentic, backs up most of what you say. In any situation like that, some of the other stuff is probably explained away by true cock ups involving large numbers of people under larger amounts of stress. WV is playing fast and loose with the facts though, excluding all mention of automatic weapons charges, which I find pretty sad.

 

I'm not excluding anything - the automatic weapons charges are TAX VIOLATIONS. One thing the USSC affirmed in USvMiller was that military weapons, FULL AUTO WEAPONS are included in the second amendment. If that deciding case would have been over a BAR rather than a 16-in barreled shotgun things would be very different today for squirt guns. F-troop is a TAX AGENCY found under the umbrella of the department of revenue. A firearms (among other things) TAX AGENCY created by NFA '34 which was a TAX MEASURE - it's the only way it was declared constitutional.

 

And why wouldn't the ATF allow independent x-ray of the weapons they took from the compound? An auto-sear in an AK is CLEARLY visible, and the five parts needed to make an AR-15 into an M-16 are easily differentiated under review, but they hid behind slick willie and reno.

 

What's sad is folks that just think people should lie down and let stormtroopers on a publicity stunt just run over them. People spout off with viceral reactions about guns and never bother to learn the fraking facts.

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They gunned down Federal Law Enforcement Agents that were trying to serve a warrent. There is no excuse for that. Period.

True - if the compound shot first. If not, then they were well in their right to defend themselves. Now - I don't know if there is any damning evidence one way or another regarding who shot first - but there is some pretty damning evidence of serious, serious misconduct by the FBI and ATF that illustrated that such a thing was not beyond this specific group of agents.

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Isam: What the West Needs to Know

netflix link

 

I fully expected this to be a documentary made by Islam apologists. Its not that I wanted to listen to somebody defend Islam - I just figured there was benefit to learn a little more about it.

 

Nope. It was a documentary on the dangerous and warlike and lying nature of Islam. It was very educational. I am always cautious of propiganda pieces - but it was one of those things that if even half of it was true - than it is still super eye opening. I reccomend it to others.

 

Just watched this one and learned a ton about Islam that I did not know before. When it discussed the Islamic conquests of Europe and then the subsequent Christian Crusades, I couldn't help but think that I would be a Muslim today if they happened to be the last group that conquered my ancestors' homelands (Poland, Scotland). They weren't, so I was raised a Christian. And really, both religions spout the same message in the end -- "Follow us or you're doomed." They wrap it up in different verbiage and use different symbolism, but that's what it boils down to. And the Muslims add "...or we'll behead you", which is a good persuasion tactic.

 

The most eye-opening piece of the DVD is that Muslims who do not believe in violence toward infidels are the equivalent of our "cafeteria Christians" -- people who play the part but don't conform to all the rules like going to church, thou shalt not ____, etc. The terrorists are the "good" Muslims -- they are the ones who are following the Koran to the letter. Mohammad himself personally beheaded hundreds of Jews. The rest of the Muslims who just pray 5 times a day, go to the Mosque and chant against America and Israel, but don't actually fight for the cause and martyr themselves are basically hypocrites. Their kids are taught that they will go to paradise if they blow up a bunch of Jews or Christians. Most don't, just like most kids who go to Sunday school still lie to their parents and have premarital sex. It's the same thing.

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